First Group: General Discussion

[ChrisPJ]

Like for like revenue down in the UK Bus side. Iceberg still melting then!

 

[THarris123]

Like for like revenue down in the UK Bus side. Iceberg still melting then!

It will for a while yet. Soon they might actually realise that cutting off half the connections across a network and generally making it harder to travel by public transport doesnt usually increase revenue.

 

[winston270twm]

Have you any comments on it?

Go on, save us the effort, summarise them.

Yes, if you care to read back though the thread, my comments are unchanged from previous results announcements - it will save me having to re-type them. :roll:

Can't help you there, sorry it is so much effort for you to click a link. I thought it would give you something to do whilst we await the First Group turnaround......

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Perhaps it might be worth comparing with other businesses. Go Ahead recorded a 1.5% growth in revenue of 2% but notably, their North East ops fell so dragging the overall growth to only 1%.

Stagecoach fell 1.6% on like for like for the last half year in UK Bus.

Therefore, the challenges for the industry are apparent and (without knowing the details the suspicion is that the North and Scotland are suffering disproportionately, reflecting the economic woes of that half of the country.

Talk of cutting network links seems to ignore the main issues and the fact that First (and other bus companies) need to address their costs.

 

[ChrisPJ]

With the benefit of hindsight, what does everybody think about the disposal of London operations? A smart move or not?

 

[Volvodart]

With the benefit of hindsight, what does everybody think about the disposal of London operations? A smart move or not?

The stupid thing they did was giving a disposal target of £100m and when that could not be met, they had to sell the London operations.

 

[overthewater]

Therefore, the challenges for the industry are apparent and (without knowing the details the suspicion is that the North and Scotland are suffering disproportionately, reflecting the economic woes of that half of the country.

Talk of cutting network links seems to ignore the main issues and the fact that First (and other bus companies) need to address their costs.

The problem is, the companies are not reacting fast enough to the current climate and change in travel patterns. Worse still since the free travel for the OAPs come in, some parts of the network has been neglected.

In Glasgow Rail travel is up big time, while at the same time bus travel went down. First Didn't care back then, their controlled both.

The amount of traffic and congestion tells me there plenty of scope for bus companies if there put in the hard work and operate NEW routes to meet the new demands. Some current routes date back 15 - 30 years and dont reflect the current needs.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Yes, if you care to read back though the thread, my comments are unchanged from previous results announcements - it will save me having to re-type them. :roll:

Can't help you there, sorry it is so much effort for you to click a link. I thought it would give you something to do whilst we await the First Group turnaround......

'Forum Rules'

If referring to an external source you should put the text in QUOTE tags (), provide details of the source and make a relevant comment to promote discussion.

 

[winston270twm]

'Forum Rules'

How much more relevant do you want???

Surprised no one has any comments on this morning's trading statement:

 

[Deerfold]

How much more relevant do you want???

Surprised no one has any comments on this morning's trading statement:

Including you.

If your comments are unchanged, why are you surprised that no one else has anything to add?

 

[winston270twm]

Including you.

If your comments are unchanged, why are you surprised that no one else has anything to add?

Because my opinions are my opinions only & are neither right nor wrong.

Others can see more postives from the First Group tunraround plan than I can!

 

[THarris123]

Including you.

If your comments are unchanged, why are you surprised that no one else has anything to add?

Please stop bickering in a childish manner.

I do feel sorry for Winston, as people on here have become very pedantic about his comment. He is completely right in posting what he did and yes usually someone tends to pick up on those things, so I'm grateful he posted that link.

There is no need for him to comment - if he wants to post a link to start a conversation or just provide other enthusiasts with some info, that's completely up to him.

 

[THarris123]

Any news on any new vehicle orders yet? Who do we know are getting something?

 

[Deerfold]

Please stop bickering in a childish manner.

I do feel sorry for Winston, as people on here have become very pedantic about his comment. He is completely right in posting what he did and yes usually someone tends to pick up on those things, so I'm grateful he posted that link.

There is no need for him to comment - if he wants to post a link to start a conversation or just provide other enthusiasts with some info, that's completely up to him.

I didn't say he should comment. I just wondered why he was surprised about others not commenting (twice) when he was defending his right to not comment. There's no need to call me childish for asking that, and I wasn't "bickering". Winston was sarcastic and complained when people were asking if he had any comments.

 

[THarris123]

I didn't say he should comment. I just wondered why he was surprised about others not commenting (twice) when he was defending his right to not comment. There's no need to call me childish for asking that, and I wasn't "bickering". Winston was sarcastic and complained when people were asking if he had any comments.

Sorry Deerfold - didn't mean to aim it at you. You were just the last comment in the argument.

 

[tbtc]

Any news on any new vehicle orders yet? Who do we know are getting something?

I've not heard of anything due in these parts - South Yorkshire will probably survive the next year by cutting the Rotherham PVR to allow some of the worst sheds to be withdrawn (ex-London Tridents etc).

The Solos from Great Glasgow don't seem to have had a great introduction to Doncaster (which is a pretty flat straightforward town for buses to handle - nothing as arduous as Sheffield's steep hills), but maybe more hand-me-downs like these will arrive later in the year? Certainly don't need the capacity on all the ancient Tridents/ ALX400s in those parts.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Any news on any new vehicle orders yet? Who do we know are getting something?

Bit early for any new deliveries or details of orders. Last year, we had to wait until March when the Norwich Streetdecks arrived and the actual orders were only confirmed in the April/May IIRC.

Just got to be patient

 

[winston270twm]

Winston was sarcastic and complained when people were asking if he had any comments.

My reply was only sarcastic, as the initial response was expecting me to summarise the content of the weblinks that I'd posted, as they were too idle to look for themselves and neither did they pass comment on the Trading Statement.

I won't bother posting any more links, it will save me the grief.

 

[winston270twm]

Bit early for any new deliveries or details of orders. Last year, we had to wait until March when the Norwich Streetdecks arrived and the actual orders were only confirmed in the April/May IIRC.

Just got to be patient

I agree, they typically start to arrive from April start of the new financial year and sometimes the group order isn't announced until the first are already coming off the production lines

 

[Volvodart]

Last year some of the order arrived before the financial year end, well before the order was announced, but they only entered service in this financial year.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Last year some of the order arrived before the financial year end, well before the order was announced, but they only entered service in this financial year.

As I said.... Some of the 2016 FY order was being delivered in the preceding March (2016) in the form of the Norwich Streetdecks. The sole Potteries Streetlite was also delivered IIRC and not certain if some FSY examples weren't also in the country (if not in service)

 

[THarris123]

Well we know that if First have Metrobus in Bristol, there will be new vehicles.

I'm more talking about what we know - I thought someone said Leeds are due something?

 

[winston270twm]

Last year some of the order arrived before the financial year end, well before the order was announced, but they only entered service in this financial year.

I thought there were some question marks over whether they were additional to the 2015/16 order as opposed to arriving early from the 2016/17?

 

[Volvodart]

I thought there were some question marks over whether they were additional to the 2015/16 order as opposed to arriving early from the 2016/17?

NO they were part of this year's order despite what some armchair experts said on another forum before the order was announced.

 

[winston270twm]

Well we know that if First have Metrobus in Bristol, there will be new vehicles.

I'm more talking about what we know - I thought someone said Leeds are due something?

Bristol will obviously gain new vehicles for Metrobus, but they may not get that much else for other routes. Bristol has had more than it's fair share of new buses that the past 18 months, there are other bigger subsidiarys which haven't had very many new buses for a couple of years now.

Leeds may also be due a sizeable batch.
https://www.firstgroup.com/leeds/ne...llion-bus-improvements-proposed-new-transport

Orders were announced 27th April last year

 

[Volvodart]

When does Metrobus get announced? This may have a bearing on when the order is announced.

 

[winston270twm]

When does Metrobus get announced? This may have a bearing on when the order is announced.

Not sure, I thought it should have already been announced by now, but there were delays as I don't think any operators were prepared to take the commercial risk of running the Metrobus services.

I'd be very surprised if there were any surprises in the awards, I'm sure First will gain them.

 

[overthewater]

https://www.firstgroup.com/aberdeen/more/proposed-service-changes

First Aberdeen has maps and timetables out for the changes, yet nothing about the changes to the X40.

First Aberdeen Announces Proposed Service Changes

Revised Service 8 in response to feedback, plus additional journeys for staff and visitors to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary
New Services 16/17/17A/18A maintaining existing frequency on Northern Road corridor and providing new links to Dyce Park & Choose and Aberdeen Airport
Service 18 changes including improved journey times for customers in Dyce and Danestone and an enhanced service to Charleston/Cove, including peak journeys
Changes to services as a result of Broad Street closure, including Services 11, 19, 20 and 25
New Service 117 will operate Monday-Fridays and Bank Holidays and replacing some of the links provided Service 27, which is being withdrawn
Service 27 will be withdrawn due to significant downturn passenger numbers following downturn in oil industry
Customers invited to give feedback on proposals by Monday 13 February 2017.
Local bus operator, First Aberdeen, has announced a number of proposed service changes.

The changes include new services and improved frequencies on some routes, plus a series of service alterations to take account of the closure of Broad Street.

As of Monday 30 January, Aberdeen City Council has not yet confirmed when Broad Street will close. Once this has been confirmed, the date for these changes will be communicated to customers.

 

[Robertj21a]

NO they were part of this year's order despite what some armchair experts said on another forum before the order was announced.

I'm getting a bit lost with all this!

Are we talking about the Norwich Streetdecks diverted from the original Leicester 29, or the Norwich Streetdeck arrivals subsequently ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm getting a bit lost with all this!

Are we talking about the Norwich Streetdecks diverted from the original Leicester 29, or the Norwich Streetdeck arrivals subsequently ?

The 16 plates that went to Norwich and Leicester but did a stint ON Bristol to Bath RRS on delivery last March