First Group: General Discussion

[THarris123]

Well done First - 87% of their operations still running. That's pretty damn good for such a strike action. First can't and won't leave Weymouth. Don't know why everyone is suggesting they will. It's pretty profitable in the summer season. They just need to pay them the same as Yeovil.

 

[Robertj21a]

Well done First - 87% of their operations still running. That's pretty damn good for such a strike action. First can't and won't leave Weymouth. Don't know why everyone is suggesting they will. It's pretty profitable in the summer season. They just need to pay them the same as Yeovil.

In England, the real 'summer season' is lucky to extend much more than about 6-8 school holiday weeks, plus a bit either side. We then have at least the October - April bit to balance it out ........

When it comes to First Group I wouldn't use the words 'can't' or 'won't'.

 

[dgl]

The problem at the moment is that during the strikes there are no late night buses so if you have a job that finishes late then you are scuppered and the fact that coming up to the summer season proper both the services to the sailing academy and to the largest caravan site in Weymouth (Littlesea) do not run.

 

[THarris123]

https://www.firstgroup.com/about-us...es-sale-east-lothian-operations-lothian-buses
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Have we heard anymore of new vehicles for each area?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

https://www.firstgroup.com/about-us...es-sale-east-lothian-operations-lothian-buses
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Have we heard anymore of new vehicles for each area?

You mean delivery dates? They'll be a bit of a lull now as factory shutdowns occur

 

[THarris123]

You mean delivery dates? They'll be a bit of a lull now as factory shutdowns occur

I thought a lot of buses were due in September, but we haven't heard anymore. West of England is due 68(?) and yet we haven't heard anything else about them.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A raft of timetable changes by First in the Potteries at the end of July.

Frequency reductions across a range of services on Saturdays and a further reduction in the off-peak vehicle requirement (two buses).

 

[THarris123]

Sorry to bring it up, but are the vehicles in Musselburgh and the borders (whatever is being closed down) going to be cascaded elsewhere or sold to Lothian?

 

[Volvodart]

No buses are involved in the sale.

 

[overthewater]

Also Not even FSE knows what buses are being cascaded or scraped yet, since Falkirk council school tenders have yet to be rubber stamped. ( Upto 40 buses)

 

[Andyh82]

As the ongoing strike action in Leeds continues, Unite are now reported to be thinking about balloting members to extend the strike to the whole West Yorkshire operation.

 

[overthewater]

Glasgow are also planing strike action, in connection with them being 100 Drivers short, there alot of other issues related to this....

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I heard it was roughly 1100 voted for strike action and 35 thereabouts voted against...

 

[tbtc]

A few changes in the Sheffield/ Rotherham area have been announced.

The long running 69 from Sheffield to Rotherham (which has been essentially the same route since dinosaurs roamed the land, minus tweakings to roads in the respective urban centres and a little diversion at Tinsley) is withdrawn, as are the 1/2 from Rotherham to Maltby (previously the 101/102 in olden days).

An X1 is replacing them (Sheffield - Rotherham - Maltby), but via the new "bus priority" roads around Meadowhall and the main road through Tinsley.

A service 70 provides an hourly link to the bits of Tinsley left behind (created by merging the short journeys on the 35 (Sheffield - Wincobank) to half the journeys on the 71 (Meadowhall - Rotherham).

The X78 will be down to a flat fifteen minute frequency (currently six an hour from Sheffield to Rotherham, of which four continue to Doncaster, but some have a long wait at Rotherham to meet a fifteen minute frequency).

Presumably the X1 will get at least some of the 65 reg double deckers from the X78 (given the reduction in X78 PVR).

There are a few other tweaks (including the withdrawal of through buses from the Dearne Valley to Meadowhall - currently 22a/ 22c/ 22m).

I think we are caught up in the West Yorkshire strike issue too.

 

[Andyh82]

In West Yorkshire,

The 72 Bradford to Leeds officially loses any remaining streetcars a week on Monday and will be operated by Streetdecks on a reduced frequency (every 10 mins currently I think every 7 mins). The 72 will return to Leeds City Bus Station in the autumn once the resurfacing works at the bus station are completed.

The X6 Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford will be increased Bradford to Leeds from every 20 mins to every 10 mins, meaning a bus every 5 mins Bradford to Leeds alternating between all stops and limited stop buses. Streetdecks will also take over replacing Geminis.

The Huddersfield to Bradford part will however be withdrawn breaking up a link that has run since 1985. The parallel stopping bus X63 will take up the slack to an increased frequency changing into a hybrid of stopping and limited stop bus depending on where you are on the route. Refurbished Geminis are advertised to appear later in the year.

There are also lots of major changes to secondary non-Overgound/Pulse routes in Leeds with new routes including incorporating the routes taken over from Yorkshire Tiger a couple of months ago.

 

[Stan Drews]

As the ongoing strike action in Leeds continues, Unite are now reported to be thinking about balloting members to extend the strike to the whole West Yorkshire operation.

The most recent strike in Leeds was called off.

 

[317 forever]

A few changes in the Sheffield/ Rotherham area have been announced.

The long running 69 from Sheffield to Rotherham (which has been essentially the same route since dinosaurs roamed the land, minus tweakings to roads in the respective urban centres and a little diversion at Tinsley) is withdrawn, as are the 1/2 from Rotherham to Maltby (previously the 101/102 in olden days).

An X1 is replacing them (Sheffield - Rotherham - Maltby), but via the new "bus priority" roads around Meadowhall and the main road through Tinsley.

A service 70 provides an hourly link to the bits of Tinsley left behind (created by merging the short journeys on the 35 (Sheffield - Wincobank) to half the journeys on the 71 (Meadowhall - Rotherham).

The X78 will be down to a flat fifteen minute frequency (currently six an hour from Sheffield to Rotherham, of which four continue to Doncaster, but some have a long wait at Rotherham to meet a fifteen minute frequency).

Presumably the X1 will get at least some of the 65 reg double deckers from the X78 (given the reduction in X78 PVR).

There are a few other tweaks (including the withdrawal of through buses from the Dearne Valley to Meadowhall - currently 22a/ 22c/ 22m).

I think we are caught up in the West Yorkshire strike issue too.

It's interesting what you say about bus priority roads for the new route X1. There had been talk of a kind-of Rotherham Busway a few years ago.
http://www.sypte.co.uk/brtnorth/

 

[tbtc]

It's interesting what you say about bus priority roads for the new route X1. There had been talk of a kind-of Rotherham Busway a few years ago.
http://www.sypte.co.uk/brtnorth/

True.

This should really be a test case for the way hat PTEs/ councils come up with super-ambitious schemes that get watered down an watered down.

The original plan was for a "frequent intervals" service from Sheffield to Parkgate (the busy retail park on the other side of Rotherham) via the Tinsley corridor and one via the Parkways. We were talking guided busways, new vehicles, I think something along the "ftr" model.

http://www.sypte.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Corporate/Projects_and_Awards/7035_brt_north_route_map.pdf.

Then it gets watered down and watered down, guided busway sections shortened a bit, Parkgate gets dropped, guided busway sections shortened further, the Parkway route forgotten about, guided busway sections abandoned altogether...

As I understand it, the X1 will be a conventional stopping service (given that it's directly replacing the 69 along the A6178, so there's no scope for much limited stopping).

We are now getting just one extra bus per hour from Sheffield City Centre to the Meadowhall area, from eleven buses per hour to twelve (currently 2x35, 6xX78, 3x69... will be 1x35, 1x70, 4xX78 and 6xX1), no additional buses for it, just conventional buses from the existing FSY fleet. A step in the right direction, but it's a bit like going on Grand Designs with plans for a mansion and ending up with just a dog kennel!

A cynic could suggest that it was either a consolation prize (for a PTE who haven't had any new trams in service or any extension to the initial tram network in the twenty years since it opened - unlike Manchester/ Nottingham etc), or a carrot to dangle as a way of getting a new bridge built under Tinsley viaduct (to avoid the busy roundabout off the M1 at J34.

There are certainly parallels with Bristol, where the "Metrobus" seems to have been downgraded and downgraded (sections of bus lane replacing proposed guided busway etc). See also York/ Leeds etc where ftr has been replaced by "common or garden" buses.

Getting back on topic to deal with First specifically - does anyone know where the "ftr" vehicles from the Leeds - Bradford 72 are going to end up? Will they be like the B10LAs - mothballed after just a few years in operation? Or are there plans to cascade them somewhere else?

 

[Andyh82]

I wouldn't quite say a "few years". They are 10 years old now.

 

[Robertj21a]

True.


Getting back on topic to deal with First specifically - does anyone know where the "ftr" vehicles from the Leeds - Bradford 72 are going to end up? Will they be like the B10LAs - mothballed after just a few years in operation? Or are there plans to cascade them somewhere else?

I wouldn't expect to see them in public service anywhere, possibly an airport but most likely a field or scrapyard.

 

[skyhigh]

Rumours are that some are headed to the Eden Project, with two already being debranded for a trial there - I don't know if there's any truth to that however

 

[Bungle965]

Has there been any update as to which Manchester depot is going to be closing?
Sam

 

[Andyh82]

Has been announced today that a continuous strike will begin in Leeds on Tuesday and last indefinitely.

 

[tbtc]

I wouldn't quite say a "few years". They are 10 years old now.

I wouldn't expect to see them in public service anywhere, possibly an airport but most likely a field or scrapyard.

So that's thirty nine (?) DDA-compliant buses from 2006/ 2007/ 2009 (?) that may not turn another wheel in revenue earning service (skyhigh's comment about the Eden Project aside)...

...yet we still have twenty year old buses in daily service elsewhere in First's "empire" (and are seeing modifications to B10BLEs etc to keep them in service)?

Glad I'm not a shareholder, because the money wasted on these vanity projects would get me annoyed!

 

[Robertj21a]

So that's thirty nine (?) DDA-compliant buses from 2006/ 2007/ 2009 (?) that may not turn another wheel in revenue earning service (skyhigh's comment about the Eden Project aside)...

...yet we still have twenty year old buses in daily service elsewhere in First's "empire" (and are seeing modifications to B10BLEs etc to keep them in service)?

Glad I'm not a shareholder, because the money wasted on these vanity projects would get me annoyed!

Well if you do attempt a 'tram-lookalike' that can't be operated by just one person then it's never going to have a great second-hand appeal to other operators. It was an interesting attempt by First but, even without the benefit of hindsight, few people at the time thought it was likely to be a major success.
Airports could probably use a few.

 

[Bantamzen]

So that's thirty nine (?) DDA-compliant buses from 2006/ 2007/ 2009 (?) that may not turn another wheel in revenue earning service (skyhigh's comment about the Eden Project aside)...

...yet we still have twenty year old buses in daily service elsewhere in First's "empire" (and are seeing modifications to B10BLEs etc to keep them in service)?

Glad I'm not a shareholder, because the money wasted on these vanity projects would get me annoyed!

Its a shame, but if we are honest internally at least they were poorly designed. Yes they were designed for mass transit, but even for such a mode they had far too few seats, and some of those badly designed / positioned especially those bloody curved side facing ones. I used to use these buses on a short section of the 72, and would rather stand than sit in one of those. They would probably be better off refurbished internally and used at airports or as suggested above at the Eden Project.

 

[Andyh82]

Not even sure they'd be ok at airports.

If we are talking car park buses, then customers like to speak to the driver to double check they've got on the right bus, there's 8 different routes at Manchester Airport to different car parks for example.

If we are talking airside, airports tend to buy bespoke vehicles with many doors, doors on both sides etc.

 

[noddingdonkey]

The most recent strike in Leeds was called off.

First Leeds Unite members due to strike indefinitely from Tuesday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36843611

 

[the101]

So that's thirty nine (?) DDA-compliant buses from 2006/ 2007/ 2009 (?) that may not turn another wheel in revenue earning service (skyhigh's comment about the Eden Project aside)...

...yet we still have twenty year old buses in daily service elsewhere in First's "empire" (and are seeing modifications to B10BLEs etc to keep them in service)?

Glad I'm not a shareholder, because the money wasted on these vanity projects would get me annoyed!

So what do you suggest, remove B10BLEs and the like from service and replace them with articulated buses that may not be compatible with depots, bus stations and whatever else, that do about 4mpg and require a two-person crew? I can see that doing wonders for economics of individual routes.

 

[FSW Official]

So that's thirty nine (?) DDA-compliant buses from 2006/ 2007/ 2009 (?) that may not turn another wheel in revenue earning service (skyhigh's comment about the Eden Project aside)...

That's only a presumption!