First Group: General Discussion

[Goldfish62]

Aren't Citaros also the most numerous bus model type in at least Europe ?

I believe they may be the most successful bus ever built in the world in terms of numbers.

Personally I think they are very fine vehicles and operators I know who operate them don't seem to have a bad word for them. One pointed out that although parts are expensive they rarely go wrong.

 

[pompeyfan]

66157s rear suspension collapsed the other week, believe she's still in the garage. 66156 has been out on the road a fair bit, didn't see her today though. The 2 step Darts are still going strong, both used on Aviva P&R duties so don't see mainline use, unless things have really gone wrong.

Thanks for the update, do you think the step darts will see the new year?

 

[DD12]

You could try the various First Group Enthusiast Groups on Facebook, as most list vehicles seen on delivery.

Thanks KendalKing,
I'm from the pre-Facebook generation, but I've joined, and the group looks very good, Thanks !

 

[mbonwick]

Granted, they may be a bit more expensive to buy and maintain than the equivalent Enviro, but they're excellent machines regardless.

Personally I think they are very fine vehicles and operators I know who operate them don't seem to have a bad word for them. One pointed out that although parts are expensive they rarely go wrong.

So what we're essentially saying here is that a Mercedes-Benz bus is just like a Mercedes-Benz car.....rather expensive to buy, expensive to fix but fortunately doesn't break that often.

Who'd have thought it?

 

[Hophead]

I believe they may be the most successful bus ever built in the world in terms of numbers.

Personally I think they are very fine vehicles and operators I know who operate them don't seem to have a bad word for them. One pointed out that although parts are expensive they rarely go wrong.

London General will have a fleet (09-reg) going spare next year once electric buses take over the 507 & 521 (although they will probably not be moving to any First Bus subsidiary).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So what we're essentially saying here is that a Mercedes-Benz bus is just like a Mercedes-Benz car.....rather expensive to buy, expensive to fix but fortunately doesn't break that often.

Who'd have thought it?

Indeed - and do members of the Ursa family defecate in forested areas??

 

[johnw]

While I'm not doubting that they are good, well built, reliable vehicles, their rear section is very messily layed out with seats facing backwards, some higher than others and the euro 6 versions having the awful preduding 'shower cubicle' engine compartment.

They are certainly not suitable for inter urban work or Green Line routes which Arriva puts them on.

Mercedes should introduce the low entry version with the more appropriate rear seating section.

 

[South Westerly]

While I'm not doubting that they are good, well built, reliable vehicles, their rear section is very messily layed out with seats facing backwards, some higher than others and the euro 6 versions having the awful preduding 'shower cubicle' engine compartment.

They are certainly not suitable for inter urban work or Green Line routes which Arriva puts them on.

Mercedes should introduce the low entry version with the more appropriate rear seating section.

Such a version does exist!

 

[johnw]

Such a version does exist!

But Nercedez seem reluctant to offer it in the UK apart from the MCV bodied version.

 

[Robertj21a]

While I'm not doubting that they are good, well built, reliable vehicles, their rear section is very messily layed out with seats facing backwards, some higher than others and the euro 6 versions having the awful preduding 'shower cubicle' engine compartment.

They are certainly not suitable for inter urban work or Green Line routes which Arriva puts them on.

.

If that was the case, I wonder why Wellglade bought them for their prestige 'Skylink' service from Leicester to Derby ?

 

[Lrd]

Thanks for the update, do you think the step darts will see the new year?

I don't see why not, although our PVR is being reduced by about 10 in September so this may or may not free up 2 "new" buses for the Aviva's but our fleet is stretched as it is at the moment with rumour of some more double deckers from Berkshire coming down. We already have one, 33147, which joined the mainline fleet this week.

 

[6Gman]

While I'm not doubting that they are good, well built, reliable vehicles, their rear section is very messily layed out with seats facing backwards, some higher than others and the euro 6 versions having the awful preduding 'shower cubicle' engine compartment.

They are certainly not suitable for inter urban work or Green Line routes which Arriva puts them on.

Mercedes should introduce the low entry version with the more appropriate rear seating section.

Sorry, English not my first language - what does "preduding" mean?

On Citaros, aren't they very heavy on fuel?

 

[Robertj21a]

Thanks for the update, do you think the step darts will see the new year?

From 1/1/16, step entrance Darts can still work on any 'closed contract' work, but not on any services that can be used by the general public.

 

[johnw]

Sorry, English not my first language - what does "preduding" mean?

On Citaros, aren't they very heavy on fuel?

Sorry, an iPad text fail

I meant to say protruding.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If that was the case, I wonder why Wellglade bought them for their prestige 'Skylink' service from Leicester to Derby ?

It's thus subjective to say they made the correct vehicle decision....

 

[overthewater]

It seems First Scotland East is dead, at long last. New names have appeared ( first one is the newest)

* First West Lothian
* First bluebird or First Midland bluebird
* First Border
* First East Lothian- no idea if that is still in use.

 

[90019]

So what we're essentially saying here is that a Mercedes-Benz bus is just like a Mercedes-Benz car.....rather expensive to buy, expensive to fix but fortunately doesn't break that often.

That's Mercedes cars before the mid 90s - they've been a bit crap since then, though they have improved recently.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

* First East Lothian- no idea if that is still in use.

Are they finally going to give up on East Lothian and shut the depot at Musselburgh?

 

[overthewater]

Are they finally going to give up on East Lothian and shut the depot at Musselburgh?

Come back in 2016 and we can try again.

 

[THarris123]

Do we know when First is closing/selling some of the depots (I.e. Plymouth, Bracknell, Hereford and Newcastle)?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do we know when First is closing/selling some of the depots (I.e. Plymouth, Bracknell, Hereford and Newcastle)?

28th August (Bracknell) and 5th Sep (rest)

 

[overthewater]

We don't know, what is going on at the moment but it seems the X5 could be on its last days:

PM0000006/8 - FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD, 100 CATHCART ROAD, GLASGOW, G42 7BH
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Glasgow Buchanan Bus Station and Cumbernauld, Abronhill given service number X5/X5M/X5W effective from 17-Oct-2015.

It would mean if nothing replaces it, Stagecoach gaining full control of the route. First will still have present in Cumbernauld, with the X3 along with FSE X37/39, which faces no competition from Stagecoach at the moment.

 

[KendalKing]

It would mean if nothing replaces it, Stagecoach gaining full control of the route. First will still have present in Cumbernauld, with the X3 along with FSE X37/39, which faces no competition from Stagecoach at the moment.

The way things are going, there going be no Firstbus left, it going to be all Stagecoach.

 

[Robertj21a]

The way things are going, there going be no Firstbus left, it going to be all Stagecoach.

Probably inevitable anyway given how First Group are still struggling financially.

 

[overthewater]

It does seem the X5 will not get replace, No36 will also be scaled back and the X3 will now longer start at Seafar, leaving it to Stagecoach.

To be fair, Stagecoach could get away with the current daytime timetable, but the 23.05 would need to get put on all week, instead of Thur - Sat.

 

[TAS]

More cutbacks appear to be happening at Braintree in Essex. The Ipswich Bus Blog has reported that the depot there is to close, being replaced by an outstation (the reference there is to First's new depot in Colchester to replace their current mix of sites and allow redevelopment of their town centre depot).

Service registrations so far imply that:

18/10/2015
21/21A Great Notley - Braintree - Bocking amended (timetable)
30 Braintree town service withdrawn

01/11/2015
47 Chelmer Village - Chelmsford - Broomfield Hospital withdrawn (part of the route is covered by the 70 and part by the 72, so I guess that the changes may compensate?)
70/70X Colchester - Braintree - Chelmsford amended (timetable)
72 Chelmsford - Witham introduced (not clear what's happening to the existing 72 Chelmsford - Chelmer Village as this has neither been amended or deregistered). This will apparently combine with service 71/71A to provide 4bph Witham - Chelmer Village - Chelmsford and cover the areas of Witham previously covered by the 131/132
131/132 Halstead - Braintree - Witham withdrawn (this leaves Hedingham to cover the Halstead to Braintree section with their 89 (less frequent) and leaves the Braintree to Witham section with no buses, including both Silver End and Rivenhall left completely unserved. In addition, service 89 takes a different route and thus Gosfield will lose its half-hourly link to Braintree and Halstead, being left with a couple of early morning and evening journeys on First's 88 (Great Yeldham - Halstead - Colchester), three daytime journeys on Regal's ECC contract 11 (Gosfield - Halstead - Sudbury) and evening and Sunday journeys on First's ECC contract 352 (Halstead - Braintree - Chelmsford)

If I had to guess, I'd assume that someone (Hedingham? Stephensons?) might well spot an opportunity with these gaps, but First's retrenchment seems to be continuing. For example, it might be possible for Hedingham to increase frequency on the 89 (perhaps to half-hourly with one bus an hour via Gosfield), and perhaps extend it beyond Braintree to Witham.

 

[overthewater]

I remember a few years back it was only a 30mins service between Witham and Chelmsford, so this is major improvement! Evening and Sunday service was dire.

 

[TAS]

I remember a few years back it was only a 30mins service between Witham and Chelmsford, so this is major improvement! Evening and Sunday service was dire.

I'm not denying the improvement, it's just a shame that First seem to be increasingly concentrating on a few corridors, whilst pulling back completely from others.

EDIT: It's also interesting that First are making changes to the 21 as Hedingham have altered their 34 from September so that it duplicates the Bocking - Braintree section of that route.

 

[overthewater]

Why doesn't First just extend 2bph of the new 15min to Whitham service up to Braintree?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not denying the improvement, it's just a shame that First seem to be increasingly concentrating on a few corridors, whilst pulling back completely from others.

EDIT: It's also interesting that First are making changes to the 21 as Hedingham have altered their 34 from September so that it duplicates the Bocking - Braintree section of that route.

I might be wrong (correct me if I am) but wasn't Braintree only an outstation after the Fairfield Road depot was sold for development? It was then upgraded to a depot after they took on some adjoining premises.....or am I talking rubbish?

 

[TAS]

I might be wrong (correct me if I am) but wasn't Braintree only an outstation after the Fairfield Road depot was sold for development? It was then upgraded to a depot after they took on some adjoining premises.....or am I talking rubbish?

That's right. It became an outstation in 2005, a depot in 2009 and is now going back to being an outstation again. It all seems a little short-sighted, but I guess the new Colchester depot will have more capacity than the old one, so it makes sense to concentrate work there and downgrade Braintree.

 

[jamesontheroad]

News from Norwich, where First are withdrawing routes 11, 11A, 12, & 12A. Aside from a few route amendments, all are being replaced by local operator Sanders.

Apology if mentioned, but First Norwich have also been dissuaded from cutting the city's only night route between the station, city centre and UEA. It will continue but with a much reduced schedule.