First Group: General Discussion

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think that First's latest housekeeping exercise still has some more mileage yet. I said in the First Kernow thread that more developments may follow on from Plymouth in the south west. I think they will sell or dump Yeovil, as it doesn't seem very profitable and they have no 2012-spec vehicles as far as I can tell. Stagecoach formerly Cook's Coaches and WebberBus would probably fill the gaps. I doubt they will pull out of other places trading as The Buses of Somerset due to this rebrand, nor out of Weymouth as they have some modern Streetlites there.

If they do divest places like Weymouth they would surely retrieve the 2012-spec vehicles for use elsewhere. I doubt First would part with such vehicles. Just as we once took buses in Olympia livery or lack of them as a clue as to potential divestments, now I think it is the presence or absence of such buses that give us the clearest clues.

Despite such retrenchment from First, they have had 3 expansions of sorts in the last 2 years. In December 2013 they took over the Carmarthen - Aberystwyth TrawsCymru service from Arriva. In February 2014 they took over Finglands from EYMS. Then in March 2015, following a minor expansion in Cornwall in competition with Western Greyhound, they took over much of the network following their collapse.

I think you need to be a bit more detailed in your analysis.

Kernow - a minor expansion? They've reopened one depot, have a new Newquay outstation and are reportedly buying/leasing two of the ex WG sites because they've got so much additional work.

BoS have got Streetlites but they're just leased for the Taunton P&R

Yeovil is in the middle of a fleet upgrade. All non-DDA stock is going with middle aged Darts and Solos in their place - full compliance is probably fairly close. I thought it might go but not on current evidence.

Stagecoach seem to have lost their mojo with Somerset - Chard is now virtually a one route operation and they closed Wellington (the old Cooks depot). Competition in Yeovil is more likely from Nippy Bus and SWC - rather than Webberbus.

 

[Goldfish62]

Kernow - a minor expansion? They've reopened one depot, have a new Newquay outstation and are reportedly buying/leasing two of the ex WG sites because they've got so much additional work.

Kernow have now taken procession of Summercourt depot. There's a large Kernow sign outside it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Kernow have now taken procession of Summercourt depot. There's a large Kernow sign outside it.

Are they taking Pollards Mill as well? Guess that provides a Snozzell base whilst Summercourt will replace a bulging Truro and the Newquay yard?

 

[tinker]

I think that First's latest housekeeping exercise still has some more mileage yet...

Indeed, First in Norfolk and Waveney are being treated very very differently to First in Ipswich; the latter receiving a full organised repaint and refurb program along with promises of new (to the depot) vehicles - not so much for the former, despite both being part of First Eastern Counties.

That all seems slightly odd to me, with First Norfolk and Waveney being the one with both Go-Ahead (Konectbus and Anglianbus) and Stagecoach on it's doorstep (First in Ipswich has Ipswich buses in comparison) but who knows - maybe I'm missing something.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed, First in Norfolk and Waveney are being treated very very differently to First in Ipswich; the latter receiving a full organised repaint and refurb program along with promises of new (to the depot) vehicles - not so much for the former, despite both being part of First Eastern Counties.

That all seems slightly odd to me, with First Norfolk and Waveney being the one with both Go-Ahead (Konectbus and Anglianbus) and Stagecoach on it's doorstep (First in Ipswich has Ipswich buses in comparison) but who knows - maybe I'm missing something.

TBF, Ipswich hasn't received new vehicles but GY and Norwich both got new Streetlites last year. However, can't recall but don't think FEC is getting anything new this year? Without people jumping to conclusions, one of the depots is weaker than the others

 

[tinker]

TBF, Ipswich hasn't received new vehicles but GY and Norwich both got new Streetlites last year. However, can't recall but don't think FEC is getting anything new this year? Without people jumping to conclusions, one of the depots is weaker than the others

True, but Ipswich has had a full refurbishment of all of it's vehicles, repaints and leather, you name it. GY and Norwich meanwhile (X1 vehicles aside) the Streetlites were the first new new vehicles for the best part of a decade (the Jersey Darts were new to First), the repaint program (such as it is) doesn't really deserve server space, and to date the number of vehicles refurbed with leather seating = 1.

Nope, FEC isn't getting anything new this year.

I do know one of the depots in the area is going through money like water (although I suspect it may not be the one you have in mind), but it doesn't explain the carry on at another. Sad really, as the staff on the ground are great, it's just something else that seems really off.

 

[overthewater]

Its not all Doom and gloom at FSE:

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/scotland_east/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=28731&conf=0

First Bus Shortlisted for Eight Industry Awards

Tuesday 28 July 2015

First Bus, the UK's leading bus operator, has been shortlisted for eight prizes at this year's National Transport Awards, one of the bus industry's most prestigious awards events.

First Glasgow, after having recently been named Scottish 'Public Transport Operator of the Year', has been shortlisted for two awards including the much coveted national 'Bus Operator of the Year'. Its new headquarters 'Caledonia', arguably the biggest and greenest bus depot in the UK, has also been shortlisted in the 'Construction and Engineering Project of the Year' award category.

Meanwhile First's Scotland East business has been shortlisted for the first time at the national awards for its Contribution to Sustainable Transport. First Hampshire is shortlisted in the Improvements to Bus Services category for its three iconic bus brands: Eclipse, The Star and City Reds.

In the Travel Information and Marketing Category First's South Yorkshire Young Persons Fares Campaign has been shortlisted. But it'll be up against stiff competition from First Manchester's Cross Connect campaign, also tipped for success in the same category.

Finally two members of First's operational teams have been nominated as the UK transport industry's Frontline Employee of the Year - Christian Horn, Staff/Customer Engagement Manager from First Cymru and Gus Iandi, a bus driver from First Wessex.

Giles Fearnley, Managing Director of First Bus, said: "I'm delighted that we've been shortlisted in such a wide range of categories. We are striving to make improvements for customers and generate passenger growth right across First Bus.

"To be shortlisted in so many key areas including operational delivery, sustainability, customer information provision and importantly best employees on the frontline is a fantastic achievement. It really does reflect the hard work and commitment of my colleagues from all corners of our operations to improve services and encourage more people on to our buses."

The National Transport Awards winners will be announced at a ceremony in London on October 8.

First Bus has been shortlisted for the following awards:
Improvements to Bus Services
First Hampshire's iconic bus fleets

Bus Operator of the Year
First Glasgow

Contribution to Sustainable Transport
First Scotland East

Travel Information & Marketing
First Bus, South Yorkshire Young Persons Fares Campaign
First Greater Manchester Cross Connect

Frontline Employee of the Year
Christian Horn, Staff/Customer Engagement Manager, First Cymru
Gus Iandi, Bus Driver, First Wessex

Construction and Engineering Project of the Year
First Glasgow " Caledonia

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/scotland_east/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=28741&conf=0

First Midland Bluebird rolling out new Bus Driver Training Programme

Tuesday 28 July 2015

First Midland Bluebird has announced details of a new driver training programme, which places even greater emphasis on safety and customer service, and which is being rolled out to new drivers.

Driver Training
First's 'Better Journeys for Life Driver Training Programme' has already been awarded the highly prestigious City and Guilds accreditation, a first for the bus industry in the UK. The programme has also been endorsed by the Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT), the bus sector's industry body.

Some of the improvements to the programme include:

The 20 day course now includes three days of intensive customer service training - a significant increase for First and thought to be the most comprehensive customer service training in the industry.

The amount of time a driver spends behind the wheel in training has increased by around 30%.

From a safety perspective, new drivers undergo the Smith System Advanced Safe Driving course and better learn how to manage security and conflict issues.

First's focus on helping customers with disabilities continues. Drivers undergo specific training to ensure they are aware how to manage wheelchair users and continue to benefit from modules showing drivers how to identify and help customers with sight loss or who may be suffering from dementia.

In addition First has invested in its training rooms and is providing its trainers with extra support and coaching as they prepare to roll out the new programme.


First's investment in its Better Journeys for Life Training Programme also complements a change of strategy in the recruitment of drivers. First is placing a greater emphasis on attracting new people with a background and/or passion for customer service that the company can train to drive buses. An on-line application, featuring an on-line assessment, is designed to ensure candidates with a customer service and safety focus reach the interview stages.

Paul McGowan, Managing Director of First Midland Bluebird, said: "We're working hard to improve our services and our drivers play a vital role in attracting and retaining our customers. They are our ambassadors and therefore we must ensure they have the right training and the best training.

"I'm therefore delighted to launch First's bespoke training programme, especially as it has secured the much sought after City and Guilds accreditation. Our programme, which is designed to meet the specific needs of our business, places our driver training at the forefront of the bus industry."

 

[WatcherZero]

Well Arriva has 6 nominations, TfGM has 7 nominations, Merseytravel has 4, TfL has 5.

On the other hand Stagecoach only has 1, and national express 3. so as bus operators go a strong showing for First.

 

[pompeyfan]

The training program has been launched across the company on a regional basis, I believe Hampshire and Bolton were the first to go live on a pilot basis.

I've seen a big improvement of new guys into the business, overall the program is working. As the economy continues not to grow there is talk of not recruiting existing licence holders, so that first can train people the way they want. I believe they are also planning on only recruiting those with 0 points on their licence.

 

[90sWereBetter]

True, but Ipswich has had a full refurbishment of all of it's vehicles, repaints and leather, you name it. GY and Norwich meanwhile (X1 vehicles aside) the Streetlites were the first new new vehicles for the best part of a decade (the Jersey Darts were new to First), the repaint program (such as it is) doesn't really deserve server space, and to date the number of vehicles refurbed with leather seating = 1.

Nope, FEC isn't getting anything new this year.

I do know one of the depots in the area is going through money like water (although I suspect it may not be the one you have in mind), but it doesn't explain the carry on at another. Sad really, as the staff on the ground are great, it's just something else that seems really off.

Well, now that the DDA conversion of the B7TL/ALX400 deckers is complete for Lowestoft and Yarmouth, the repaint/refurb program at Norwich will probably kick up a gear. There's another three Presidents being done at Rotherham at present.

 

[Volvodart]

http://www.firstgroup.com/about-us/news/somerset-passenger-solutions-announces-preferred-bidder-%C2%A350m-contract-provide-bus

EDF Energy has awarded preferred bidder status to ‘Somerset Passenger Solutions’, a 50/50 joint venture between bus operator First Bus and family business Crosville Motor Services, to provide bus services to the proposed Hinkley Point C power station.

Somerset Passenger Solutions revealed today some of its plans for bus services to the site. They will operate high frequency services to Hinkley Point from dedicated Park and Ride sites, staff campus accommodation sites and from surrounding towns and villages for employees living across the area. The joint venture will also provide internal site shuttles and transport for visitors from airports, railway stations and hotels.

EDF Energy estimates around 25,000 job opportunities to be created during the construction of the new power station and at peak construction expect around 5,600 staff to travel to and from the site every day. Somerset Passenger Solutions will require around 300 dedicated staff to manage the anticipated 10,000+ daily passenger journeys. First and Crosville also said they expect to operate up to 160 brand new, high spec, environmentally friendly buses.

Somerset Passenger Solutions will submit the finalised bid shortly. Work on the main contract will be subject to the signing of contracts and a final investment decision on the project by EDF Energy.

Jonathan Jones Pratt, Chairman of Crosville Motor Services, said: “This is great news for our company and for this region of the UK, especially given the training legacy that we will bring to the table. Our joint venture brings together unique skills and experience and I’m delighted that our partnership and the good work we’re doing in providing bus services to the site under the current interim contract, has been recognised.”

Alex Carter, Managing Director of First Bus in the South West, said: “I’m pleased that with our partners Crosville, we’ve achieved preferred bidder status. The contract will help secure jobs and is great news for our business and the wider community. We will be submitting an innovative and exciting final bid and look forward to finalising the contract.”

Crosville first engaged with EDF Energy more than five years ago and were awarded interim contract status in 2014. Crosville invited First to form a joint venture, ‘Somerset Passenger Solutions’ in June 2014 in response to the release of the scope of the main contract. By awarding preferred bidder status, EDF Energy has recognised the quality of service that has been provided to date and the joint qualities that both companies have brought to the table.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

http://www.firstgroup.com/about-us/news/somerset-passenger-solutions-announces-preferred-bidder-%C2%A350m-contract-provide-bus

Interesting - wonder how this will affect (if at all) the competitive situation between First and CMS in Weston, or indeed BoS's focus on the fight with Webberbus.

From it being a basket case, Alex Carter and his team have done quite a job on FSW. Kernow has been turned around and the nearest competitor gone, Devon is being exited and the ongoing wound cauterized, and Somerset is on a much sounder footing.

 

[Carlisle]

HI B

The training program has been launched across the company on a regional basis, I believe Hampshire and Bolton were the first to go live on a pilot basis.

I've seen a big improvement of new guys into the business, overall the program is working. As the economy continues not to grow there is talk of not recruiting existing licence holders, so that first can train people the way they want. I believe they are also planning on only recruiting those with 0 points on their licence.

That may work in some areas, but in regions like London and southeast with fairly low unemployment levels,bus companies are likely to recruit from a mixture of trainees and existing licence holders, plus the reality that the considerable number of Eastern Europeans etc employed suggests there's not always a limitless supply of local talent immediately available anyway, unless they are planning to raise wages to similar levels to the likes of train drivers, In which case staff turnover will become very low.

 

[THarris123]

Does anyone know what vehicles are going to be moving out of the depots closing down/being sold (i.e. Hereford, Plymouth, Bracknell & Newcastle)?

Do we know what the DDA vehicles are and where they're going?

In Bracknell, I'm assuming that the citaros and E200s will transfer across to Slough and then most of the deckers will head to Hampshire for service?

Any Plymouth DDA vehicles (of which there aren't many) I'm assuming they'll go to Kernow.

Then Hereford and Newcastle will go into Stoke on Trent (AG)? How many is Newcastle losing exactly?

I also notice that some of the Bracknell fleet has already moved out to Hampshire (53065 and 68522).

 

[South Westerly]

Does anyone know what vehicles are going to be moving out of the depots closing down/being sold (i.e. Hereford, Plymouth, Bracknell & Newcastle)?

Do we know what the DDA vehicles are and where they're going?

In Bracknell, I'm assuming that the citaros and E200s will transfer across to Slough and then most of the deckers will head to Hampshire for service?

Any Plymouth DDA vehicles (of which there aren't many) I'm assuming they'll go to Kernow.

Less than half of the Devon fleet falls foul of the next DDA cut off. The B7Ls are expected to transfer out of FSW but everything else will remain.

 

[Robertj21a]

Does anyone know what vehicles are going to be moving out of the depots closing down/being sold (i.e. Hereford, Plymouth, Bracknell & Newcastle)?

Do we know what the DDA vehicles are and where they're going?

In Bracknell, I'm assuming that the citaros and E200s will transfer across to Slough and then most of the deckers will head to Hampshire for service?

Any Plymouth DDA vehicles (of which there aren't many) I'm assuming they'll go to Kernow.

Then Hereford and Newcastle will go into Stoke on Trent (AG)? How many is Newcastle losing exactly?

I also notice that some of the Bracknell fleet has already moved out to Hampshire (53065 and 68522).

I gather that the exact details for the Potteries fleet are still to be finalised. It looks like the overall fleet size will drop by something around 30-40.

 

[THarris123]

Less than half of the Devon fleet falls foul of the next DDA cut off. The B7Ls are expected to transfer out of FSW but everything else will remain.

Are those the 7 02/51 reg single deck B7s?

If it is those, then they may well go to Bath to join 60912/3/4.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Are those the 7 02/51 reg single deck B7s?

If it is those, then they may well go to Bath to join 60912/3/4.

Yep, those ones. They could go there or perhaps to Potteries to help replace some dross.

Wait to see what ends where; will be a lot of changes in the next few months

 

[KendalKing]

Does anyone know what vehicles are going to be moving out of the depots closing down/being sold (i.e. Hereford, Plymouth, Bracknell & Newcastle)?

This is a very good Question, we all have to wait and see what happens.

In Bracknell, I'm assuming that the citaros and E200s will transfer across to Slough and then most of the deckers will head to Hampshire for service?

As the Green Line operations are due to move to Slough, I would assume that the Deckers, which are currently used on the Green Line services, would also move to Slough.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is a very good Question, we all have to wait and see what happens.



As the Green Line operations are due to move to Slough, I would assume that the Deckers, which are currently used on the Green Line services, would also move to Slough.

TBF, when referring to most of the deckers, I'd assumed that TH123 was talking about the various ex London stuff. You'd have had that down for Kernow ordinarily but given the number of Tridents that Devon has coming spare plus the 25 ex Yorkshire B7TLs that are said to be heading that way, then difficult to even speculate!!

 

[South Westerly]

TBF, when referring to most of the deckers, I'd assumed that TH123 was talking about the various ex London stuff. You'd have had that down for Kernow ordinarily but given the number of Tridents that Devon has coming spare plus the 25 ex Yorkshire B7TLs that are said to be heading that way, then difficult to even speculate!!

It's 18 B7TLs heading to Kernow now, from a West Yorkshire and and Manchester. At this stage it is those and all the Devon Tridents and E400s, plus the Devon DDA Darts and Solos.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's 18 B7TLs heading to Kernow now, from a West Yorkshire and and Manchester. At this stage it is those and all the Devon Tridents and E400s, plus the Devon DDA Darts and Solos.

Obviously, the Devon Tridents include some long lived examples plus some newer examples (2004/5) to bring the age profile down (and meet DDA, of course). Any news on the age of the B7TLs though?

That said, with the various e400s and newer Tridents, most of the remaining deckers will probably be on schools/college workings so older examples will probably suffice?

 

[Robertj21a]

Obviously, the Devon Tridents include some long lived examples plus some newer examples (2004/5) to bring the age profile down (and meet DDA, of course). Any news on the age of the B7TLs though?

That said, with the various e400s and newer Tridents, most of the remaining deckers will probably be on schools/college workings so older examples will probably suffice?

As you say, older (non-DDA) deckers can still work on school runs not open to the public after Dec 2016. I daresay the operators will have to be just that bit more careful to ensure that they never get used on public service when there are any shortages.

Those B7TLs due could possibly be some of those ALX400s that First have now modified to make them DDA-compliant.

 

[THarris123]

It's 18 B7TLs heading to Kernow now, from a West Yorkshire and and Manchester. At this stage it is those and all the Devon Tridents and E400s, plus the Devon DDA Darts and Solos.

Wow all 5 of those DDA Darts and Solos!

What's happening with the B6s? Scrap? If so, Kernow will still have about 35 non DDA singles. What do we think will replace those?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wow all 5 of those DDA Darts and Solos!

What's happening with the B6s? Scrap? If so, Kernow will still have about 35 non DDA singles. What do we think will replace those?

You have got 38 Tridents plus 6 Solos/Darts plus the 18 B7TLs that SW mentioned. That's 62 to replace the non DDA kit and make a serious inroad into the Olympians.

 

[pompeyfan]

It will be very interesting to see across the south and south west how they manage this. In Hampshire the numbers don't add up so cascades have to be coming from somewhere. Does anyone know if 66156/7 and the 2 step darts are still ticking along in Southampton?

 

[smtglasgow]

Presumably a good proportion of Glasgow’s big order (75 vehicles?) is designed to allow cascades. The E500s to Aberdeen has been mooted for ages, but AFAIK Glasgow doesn’t need much in the way of DDA replacements, so the new buses might allow for the release of some half decent midlife or newer stock. The E200s for Blantyre and Overton should release 24 B7RLE from the 240 and the 19 E200s at Parkhead may even release some of the E300s delivered in 2012/13. Glasgow may get to keep some of these for internal cascade, but there has been a lot of investment in the single decker fleet in recent years so the needs of the wider business will probably win out. Glasgow’s problem would appear to be the ageing Trident fleet, but I guess that is being ignored this year.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a few more schemes across First to reduce PVR – the consultation on the new network in Sheffield seems to be designed to do just that for both First and Stagecoach. An easy way to shed a few more non-compliant vehicles.

No doubt First know exactly where everything is going, but it should be an interesting autumn watching the pieces fall into place. Presumably the remaining Streetlites and the E200s from this years order are due over the next few months?

 

[South Westerly]

Obviously, the Devon Tridents include some long lived examples plus some newer examples (2004/5) to bring the age profile down (and meet DDA, of course). Any news on the age of the B7TLs though?

That said, with the various e400s and newer Tridents, most of the remaining deckers will probably be on schools/college workings so older examples will probably suffice?

It's not really an issue. Customers get low floor, which is after all what they want (DDA being a technical improvement on a typical low floor decker with a ramp and being as much about destination screens as accessibility!) and it seems that First Group plans to replace non DDA low floor deckers in the following year anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wow all 5 of those DDA Darts and Solos!

What's happening with the B6s? Scrap? If so, Kernow will still have about 35 non DDA singles. What do we think will replace those?

If you're looking for reciprocal sarcasm, then what have the B6s to do with anything - they're not DDA

 

[Hophead]

It will be very interesting to see across the south and south west how they manage this. In Hampshire the numbers don't add up so cascades have to be coming from somewhere. Does anyone know if 66156/7 and the 2 step darts are still ticking along in Southampton?

Southampton Bus Update reports that First are soon to make changes in Southampton, which look like reducing the PVR by a few.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's not really an issue. Customers get low floor, which is after all what they want (DDA being a technical improvement on a typical low floor decker with a ramp and being as much about destination screens as accessibility!) and it seems that First Group plans to replace non DDA low floor deckers in the following year anyway.

DDA compliance is, of course, in excess of what the majority of people want or need. How compliant the various Devon Tridents are, you'll know better than I, and whether those that aren't technically compliant are just a relatively simple amend/recert?

I was more wondering whether those that head down from Yorkshire might be just slightly newer examples (e.g. 2001/2 rather than the older examples - again, I don't profess to know which of the older contingent are compliant or otherwise).

It's a very interesting year for First fleet movements.