First Group: General Discussion

[bb21]

Stagecoach said the 'First livery until repainting is done' type thing with Wigan too - but they haven't repainted a single ex-First vehicle yet. I get the impression they don't plan to in Chester either.

Maybe they are waiting to do it with the next round of refurbishment that many First vehicles desperately need.

 

[mbonwick]

Funny how a pair of Wigan's B9TLs are away at Hyde Rd then getting a complete repaint and interior refurbishment to Stagecoach spec.....

 

[MK Tom]

A single one that I knew about!

 

[overthewater]

The talk is Musslebrugh depot is now making a loose again 7K loss every month, that does not sound alot but that depot is losing £100'000 over a year... first dont have money to loose like this, what if other depots are like that?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
WARNING******WARNING******

It seems there is a BIG announcement from First Scotland East on the 18th January, yes I know thats a Friday. Will it happen then? what will be said? who knows but just keep an eye out

 

[alexf380]

Yikes! Ears and eyes open for that announcement as that's my local depot (after Dalkeith closed) I wouldn't be surprised if Livingston went. Also, does anyone know how the Midland Bluebird bit of First Scotland East is doing?

 

[Polarbear]

I note from the first edition of "Keeping you in the loop" for the changeover in the Wirral & Chester areas that Stagecoach will no longer accept monthly passes of other operators (Arriva) on the Quality Partnership routes 1, 2, 471 & 472.

Whilst this is in line with the arrangements Arriva & Stagecoach have on their other QP routes in Merseyside, to change the arrangement after just 6 months with little or no warning doesn't seem to be the best way to win over your customers?

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/uploads/stagecoachwirralkeepingyouintheloo****ue1.pdf

 

[overthewater]

Yikes! Ears and eyes open for that announcement as that's my local depot (after Dalkeith closed) I wouldn't be surprised if Livingston went. Also, does anyone know how the Midland Bluebird bit of First Scotland East is doing?

I believe the "Midland" side is doing alright, hence Scottish borders has new buses and Falkirk had a service overhaul. its Livingston and Muss that ****ing money oot the winda

I note from the first edition of "Keeping you in the loop" for the changeover in the Wirral & Chester areas that Stagecoach will no longer accept monthly passes of other operators (Arriva) on the Quality Partnership routes 1, 2, 471 & 472.

Whilst this is in line with the arrangements Arriva & Stagecoach have on their other QP routes in Merseyside, to change the arrangement after just 6 months with little or no warning doesn't seem to be the best way to win over your customers?

Is it possible That stagecoach has to make a new agreement or maybe stagecoach want to overhaul those routes?

 

[mbonwick]

I note from the first edition of "Keeping you in the loop" for the changeover in the Wirral & Chester areas that Stagecoach will no longer accept monthly passes of other operators (Arriva) on the Quality Partnership routes 1, 2, 471 & 472.

Whilst this is in line with the arrangements Arriva & Stagecoach have on their other QP routes in Merseyside, to change the arrangement after just 6 months with little or no warning doesn't seem to be the best way to win over your customers?

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/uploads/stagecoachwirralkeepingyouintheloo****ue1.pdf

IIRC this is in line with the agreement on other QBP routes, don't quote me on that though.

 

[Polarbear]

IIRC this is in line with the agreement on other QBP routes, don't quote me on that though.

Yes, that's true. However, when the Quality Partnership was set up between Arriva & First on the Wirral, pretty much everything except "M-tickets" (Arriva's monthly pass downloaded onto a mobile phone) was valid & that agreement only started on 8 July 2012.

I appreciate that at the time, the sale of First's operations wasn't foreseen, but I would maybe have expected a little leeway from Stagecoach, at least initially?

Is it possible That stagecoach has to make a new agreement or maybe stagecoach want to overhaul those routes?

I think you may be right - certainly on the 2nd point.

 

[overthewater]

Remember the Ticket machines are getting overhauled

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Mbonwick will the B9tls lose there leather seats?

 

[mbonwick]

No idea, I can't see why they would though. TBH, given their age I wouldn't be too surprised to see them replaced altogether sometime in the near future.

If Stagecoach are planning on keeping them long term then a complete interior refurb and re-config to Stagecoach layout will be on the cards.

 

[anthony263]

Stagecoach have annouced a very big investment in new buses right across the group. The order includes:

Details of the new orders are as follows:

· 113 ADL Enviro 400 Dennis and Scania double-deckers

· 98 ADL Enviro 300 Dennis and Scania single-deckers

· 140 ADL Enviro 200 Dennis midibuses

· 1 Optare Versa midi-bus

· 32 Optare Solo mini-buses

· 10 Plaxton Panther Volvo B13R coaches

· 8 Plaxton Elite Volvo B13R coaches

· 10 Plaxton Elite Volvo B11R coaches

· 10 Van Hool Altano TDX 21 left-hand drive coaches

· 10 Van Hool Astromega double-decker sleeper coaches

Porth depot in south wales is to get a few new enviro 200 darts since some of the previous order were diverted elsewhere and I know some other depots in south wales are expecting new vehicles

 

[mbonwick]

Porth's E200s are on the existing 2012/3 order.

 

[overthewater]

It been pointed out by vovlodart. It seems 18 January is 70 days off 31st March, ie the date first would like to sell everything off.

Could we actually end up with a few other announcements?

 

[Ivo]

Stagecoach have annouced a very big investment in new buses right across the group. The order includes:

· 1 Optare Versa midi-bus

An enormous order like that, and part of it is formed of one vehicle? hock: I know there were some Solos on there as well, but...

It been pointed out by vovlodart. It seems 18 January is 70 days off 31st March, ie the date first would like to sell everything off.

Could we actually end up with a few other announcements?

Don't expect anything to change hands on March 31st. The Christmas period aside, no day is likely to be quieter for operators this year.

For anyone who doesn't know and/or can't tell where I'm going with this, it's Easter Sunday.

 

[Volvodart]

Don't expect anything to change hands on March 31st. The Christmas period aside, no day is likely to be quieter for operators this year.

I was talking about depot closures and the 70 day notice period would run until the end of March.

 

[robertclark125]

But there's also the 90 day consultation period with staff affected by a closure. So, saying things will change hands on 31st march is pushing it a bit.

 

[overthewater]

No one is saying ANYTHING WILL change hands on the 31st March. That is the date of last day of this financial year.

First could spin off some details over the coming week of sell off's and Closure, this still get them in for This years accounts.

 

[DunsBus]

No one is saying ANYTHING WILL change hands on the 31st March. That is the date of last day of this financial year.

First could spin off some details over the coming week of sell off's and Closure, this still get them in for This years accounts.

Maybe even sooner. I've just had a text saying that Balfron and Bannockburn depots have been sold to Stagecoach.

 

[mbonwick]

Without knowing who texted you such information etc, I'd treat that with a huge pinch of salt....

 

[overthewater]

The new user is from other forums and what he postage seems to be spreading like Wild fire. Something is going on with FSE, but what is unknown at this moment of time.

Bigger picture: Its believe Muss depot was to get the final nail in the coffin, since losses have creep back in, Anything beyond is unknown. What since there had been talk of Go-Ahead, Nat Exp, stagecoach and others all looking at this business anything is possible, but its unknown.

 

[DunsBus]

The new user is from other forums and what he postage seems to be spreading like Wild fire. Something is going on with FSE, but what is unknown at this moment of time.

Bigger picture: Its believe Muss depot was to get the final nail in the coffin, since losses have creep back in, Anything beyond is unknown. What since there had been talk of Go-Ahead, Nat Exp, stagecoach and others all looking at this business anything is possible, but its unknown.

I'm taking the Bannockburn/Balfron sell-off story with a very big pinch of salt. However my informant works for First at Livingston so there may be some truth in it.

 

[overthewater]

Maybe he said that to divert attention away from Livingston

 

[tbtc]

Excuse my ignorance - there's still a garage at Larbert isn't there? If Balfron and Bannockburn "went" then what would be the "boundary" between the Stirling area (Stagecoach) and Falkirk area (First) services?

An end to the through journeys on the 38?

How much of the Glasgow services does Bannockburn operate?

 

[overthewater]

Excuse my ignorance - there's still a garage at Larbert isn't there? If Balfron and Bannockburn "went" then what would be the "boundary" between the Stirling area (Stagecoach) and Falkirk area (First) services?

An end to the through journeys on the 38?

How much of the Glasgow services does Bannockburn operate?

The boundary would be the council areas, expect for No38 and 60 which would cross over. Larbart controls all of the 38 I believe, Not the 60.

Bannockburn operates all journeys on the 24 and X39. So well Kilsyth would have to operaters.

 

[radamfi]

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/mergers/Mergers_Cases/2013/GreaterManchesterBusesWest#.UPH5U2ea-So

Greater Manchester Buses West / First Manchester



Invitation to comment:

Informal submission

Acquisition by Greater Manchester Buses West Limited (formerly Greater Manchester Buses East Limited) of the business and assets operated from Lockett Road, Wigan of First Manchester Limited - issued 7 January 2013

The Office of Fair Trading is considering whether this agreement has resulted in the creation of a relevant merger situation under the merger provisions of the Enterprise Act 2002 and, if so, whether the creation of that situation has resulted, or may be expected to result, in a substantial lessening of competition within any market or markets in the United Kingdom for goods or services.

Affected sector: buses

Please send written representations about any competition or public interest issues to:

Peter Swan
Office of Fair Trading
Fleetbank House
2-6 Salisbury Square
London EC4Y 8JX
Email: peter.swan@oft.gsi.gov.uk
Fax: 020 7211 8916

to arrive by 18 January 2013.

 

[WatcherZero]

I hope it doesnt get blocked, besides the fleet investment Stagecoach have also lowered the First fares.

Adult £4.50 to £3.80 (70p reduction)
Child £2.25 to £1.90 (35p reduction)

Though Stagecoach look like they will be jipping the taxpayer a bit, their asking TfGM to keep to the former First child subsidy rate even though theyve lowered the child prices, their not going to refund TfGM the difference in subsidy from lowered fares. Theirs a contract review point in the middle of this year though the actual deal previously agreed with First runs until the middle of next year I think. and TfGM will be leaning on them quite heavily to accept a appropiate reduction in subsidy.

 

[Ivo]

Why only now? They've had long enough to undertake an enquiry if they felt the need was there (which it surely isn't)...

 

[radamfi]

According to another forum I'm on, the invitation for comments is a result of a complaint, presumably from another operator. It means that Stagecoach cannot make service changes or get rid of the old stock.