First Group: General Discussion

[Ivo]

They are only operating the Lytchett Matravers shuttle AFAIK, with some school contracts in Bournemouth. Am I missing something here?

In addition, when did they cut the winter runs on the X53 back to Lyme Regis?

First Part: That's still something; it allows the people of Bournemouth etc to get used to them before the company sees it as a potential new market. The conurbation is one of Britain's largest to not boast a city - second to Reading etc I think? - so not exactly a small market.

Second Part: No idea

 

[swifty]

They started to commercially operate the 387 shorts between Poole & Lytchett Matravers against Damory, they then won the full Poole to Dorchester service on tender from Damory.

Last Christmas also saw First operate the Poole P&R, this christmas by all accounts Damory put in a low bid to win it back.

The X53 was due to stop on Sundays from 04th November, but £18k was found to keep it going between Weymouth & Lyme Regis until January, then it ends until the summer.

 

[MCW]

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First in Northampton:
* betting withdrawn: For it to close down,
* 7/1: For the Depot to be sold off or with Leicester - changed

I'll ask what you mean again as I think I have interpreted things wrong again

 

[Qwerty133]

First Leicester
Fleet is 100% DDA, the network is suppose to be doing great, why waste time, money and effort on a place which does not need it? Many places higher up in this list which needs first attention. But if the above cant make the full amount then something else has to go, and what better than a smaller network which is shared with someone else?

[/QUOTE]

the busses may be low floor but a lot are 10 years old and are in need of a repaint and interior refurbishment and by going on the number of breakdowns a good service. They only properly get away with this as arriva and centrebus are no better

 

[overthewater]

I'll ask what you mean again as I think I have interpreted things wrong again

No more bets for Northampton Closing down, the chances of it not are extremely low. But a new line has appeared in which Leicester and Northampton could be sold off together..


the busses may be low floor but a lot are 10 years old and are in need of a repaint and interior refurbishment and by going on the number of breakdowns a good service. They only properly get away with this as arriva and centrebus are no better[/QUOTE]

So I think I was right to suggest this area might be sold off.

 

[MCW]

No more bets for Northampton Closing down, the chances of it not are extremely low. But a new line has appeared in which Leicester and Northampton could be sold off together..



the busses may be low floor but a lot are 10 years old and are in need of a repaint and interior refurbishment and by going on the number of breakdowns a good service. They only properly get away with this as arriva and centrebus are no better

So I think I was right to suggest this area might be sold off.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

and I would say Arriva are bad But I will put in a good word for centrebus, they do try bloody hard and are doing their best to improve things so I give them credit! anyway that's off topic, I digress...

If Leicester and northampton did get sold off together then that would be a very interesting development and possibly a good one for both local economies.

 

[radamfi]

The conurbation is one of Britain's largest to not boast a city - second to Reading etc I think? - so not exactly a small market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

has the Bournemouth Urban Area with 384K people compared to Reading/Wokingham at 370K.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_East_Dorset_conurbation

even says "The conurbation is the largest one in Britain with no part of it having city status."

 

[Qwerty133]

So I think I was right to suggest this area might be sold off.

Agreed.

and I would say Arriva are bad But I will put in a good word for centrebus, they do try bloody hard and are doing their best to improve things so I give them credit! anyway that's off topic, I digress...

If Leicester and northampton did get sold off together then that would be a very interesting development and possibly a good one for both local economies.[/QUOTE]

centrebus are the best on the whole but R reg alx100 are NOT suitable for journeys of over 80 mins

 

[overthewater]

Nothing stopping Trentbarton having a look.

 

[Qwerty133]

Nothing stopping Trentbarton having a look.

surely if wellglade got it they would run it under the kinch subsidy in leicester

 

[robertclark125]

Here's a possible purchaser - EYMS group

 

[overthewater]

Here's a possible purchaser - EYMS group

There also might want Kidderminster since there already have Whittles Coach & Bus. I think your onto something

 

[Tomonthetrain]

They can't have Kidderminster. A little thing called Competition Commission. Same reason Rotala can't buy Redditch depot.

 

[overthewater]

They can't have Kidderminster. A little thing called Competition Commission. Same reason Rotala can't buy Redditch depot.

I get the feeling CC/OFT will look into it. its not like North Devon.

 

[markie73]

If Leicester and northampton did get sold off together then that would be a very interesting development and possibly a good one for both local economies.

So do you think that this could be the reason why there has been no news regarding Northampton?, I was hoping that all of this would have been done and dusted by now as its been dragging on for ages.

 

[MCW]

centrebus are the best on the whole but R reg alx100 are NOT suitable for journeys of over 80 mins

Yes tell me about it.... nothing like getting to rugby off an old Midland fox cub or ALX100 and having a sore a**e and walking like john wayne.....

Nothing stopping Trentbarton having a look.

surely if wellglade got it they would run it under the kinch subsidy in leicester

Now you guys mention it, you could be onto something yourselves. I completely forgot about this. Kinch haven't really had a prominent presence in leicester since the late 90's, apart from running the odd route on sundays and the Skylink in Leicester, they really don't do much in the city, and as a whole I think the branding of Kinchbus would be useful as people would recognise the name and thus might instill trust into the public as they are quite a reputable firm.

So do you think that this could be the reason why there has been no news regarding Northampton?, I was hoping that all of this would have been done and dusted by now as its been dragging on for ages.

Perhaps, who knows.... I run a Bus Enthusiasts page on facebook dedicated to Leicester and my other admin guy reckons hes heard that an optare versa is being trialled in february... Who knows with first and who knows what one person says is the truth?

definitely extremely interesting to see how this will develop.

 

[overthewater]

There an idea, for Wellgrade, IF there brought Leicester, there could just rebrand route by route over to kinich.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Stagecoach now reported to be sniffing around Aircoach in Ireland. Word is they've stated their desire to enter the Irish market and have also advertised as Irish Services coming soon on Megabus literature, and the only way that would be possible to would be to acquire another operator.

 

[Deerfold]

Word is they've stated their desire to enter the Irish market and have also advertised as Irish Services coming soon on Megabus literature, and the only way that would be possible to would be to acquire another operator.

Or starting up a depot in Ireland. I'm quite sure Megabus would be capable of that.

 

[F Great Eastern]

That wouldn't help them, they can't just open a depot and run services at their choosing, the regulations won't permit that.

They would have to apply for licenses from the department of transport, which has a policy of just two operators on any particular route, all the routes connecting big cities are already taken by the bigger players such as the state companies, Citylink, Aircoach, Dublin Coach, GoBus and JJ Kavanagh, and a few more and the lesser demand services are run by Bus Eireann who are state owned.

There is no one big really strong private coach operator in Ireland, Aircoach would be the strongest with 7 routes (5 airport, 2 intercity) , then you have a number with 2, 3 or 4 routes, whilst you have a state company with over 30 intercity routes and hundreds of commuter routes before you even consider the city bus services.

There is an opportunity here for someone to buy a few companies up and make one strong big private and I'd suspect that would be the strategy for Stagecoach.

 

[Deerfold]

That wouldn't help them, they can't just open a depot and run services at their choosing, the regulations won't permit that.

They would have to apply for licenses from the department of transport, which has a policy of just two operators on any particular route, all the routes connecting big cities are already taken

That would sound to break european legislation on allowing a level playing field for companies within europe - it's different if there's a franchising system that comes up from time to time, but can't see them allowing a "sorry, it's full" system to continue if it was queried.

 

[F Great Eastern]

It's been the case for many years. It's slightly easier for private operators to get in the door now than it was a few years ago, but it's still not easy at all.

For many years there has been much protest by private operators and there is currently an ongoing investigation into many aspects of the Irish market by the European Commission, as all city services in Ireland apart from a very tiny number are all subsidy supported run by state companies.

Here are some articles on the many disputes about the marketplace:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0918/1224324119640.html
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/commission-to-examine-bus-company-subsidies-207390.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1122/1224326951021.html

The private operators have formed a federation to air their views on this
http://www.cttc.ie/positions/scheduled-services.429.html

 

[winston270twm]

That wouldn't help them, they can't just open a depot and run services at their choosing, the regulations won't permit that.

They would have to apply for licenses from the department of transport, which has a policy of just two operators on any particular route, all the routes connecting big cities are already taken by the bigger players such as the state companies, Citylink, Aircoach, Dublin Coach, GoBus and JJ Kavanagh, and a few more and the lesser demand services are run by Bus Eireann who are state owned.

There is no one big really strong private coach operator in Ireland, Aircoach would be the strongest with 7 routes (5 airport, 2 intercity) , then you have a number with 2, 3 or 4 routes, whilst you have a state company with over 30 intercity routes and hundreds of commuter routes before you even consider the city bus services.

There is an opportunity here for someone to buy a few companies up and make one strong big private and I'd suspect that would be the strategy for Stagecoach.

If Aircoach was being touted for sale, you could also find NX Group would be interested

 

[F Great Eastern]

If Aircoach was being touted for sale, you could also find NX Group would be interested

I would hope not!

 

[bb21]

Strange that Stagecoach haven't shown an interest in Leicester, considering that it could be a strategic buy and links up with both the Northampton and Warwickshire operations.

If EYMS bought it, I would love to see massive "East Yorkshire" lettering on the garage gates at Abbey Lane.

 

[Deerfold]

Strange that Stagecoach haven't shown an interest in Leicester, considering that it could be a strategic buy and links up with both the Northampton and Warwickshire operations.

Though they did used to have a small prescence there - some of the United Counties buses from Milton Keynes to Peterborough used to continue to Leicester - with a couple a day carrying on to Nottingham (X61?)

 

[overthewater]

Though they did used to have a small prescence there - some of the United Counties buses from Milton Keynes to Peterborough used to continue to Leicester - with a couple a day carrying on to Nottingham (X61?)

All that is left now is the X7 Milton Keynes - Northampton - Leicester.

The thing is Stagecoach cant buy everything I'll just get the feeling Go Ahead, Nat Express, Wellglade and eve EYBS might just be able to expand.

Go ahead want to get more business, and the only way is aquire new stock.

 

[Qwerty133]

All that is left now is the X7 Milton Keynes - Northampton - Leicester.

The thing is Stagecoach cant buy everything I'll just get the feeling Go Ahead, Nat Express, Wellglade and eve EYBS might just be able to expand.

Go ahead want to get more business, and the only way is aquire new stock.

has the 48 stopped recently then

 

[overthewater]

has the 48 stopped recently then

I forgot about that! Still going very strong!

 

[radamfi]

No one has mentioned the US Greyhound operation. I presume this is considered core business, but I would have thought it would be worth serious money. Even selling a small portion of Greyhound may raise £100 million.