First Group: General Discussion

[MCW]

apparently two new painted and refurbed First deckers with Orange route 1 branding from Birkenhead were working in leicester today.

 

[Polarbear]

apparently two new painted and refurbed First deckers with Orange route 1 branding from Birkenhead were working in leicester today.

Deckers? Route 1?

Hmmm...I doubt it somehow due to the low bridge on that route at Bache railway station? Every decker that's attempted the route to date has ended up as open top...!!

 

[MCW]

Deckers? Route 1?

Hmmm...I doubt it somehow due to the low bridge on that route at Bache railway station? Every decker that's attempted the route to date has ended up as open top...!!

im just going on what my mate told me

however, an open top would be interesting.... would be a top deck of umbrellas! :roll:

 

[Polarbear]

im just going on what my mate told me

however, an open top would be interesting.... would be a top deck of umbrellas! :roll:

We did have "05" reg Wright Solar Scania's branded with orange decals for route 1, but these were de-branded when the route became part of a Merseyside Quality Partnership in July 2012. As far as I know, all of the buses in that batch are still at Rock Ferry - until Stagecoach take over anyway.

 

[MCW]

We did have "05" reg Wright Solar Scania's branded with orange decals for route 1, but these were de-branded when the route became part of a Merseyside Quality Partnership in July 2012. As far as I know, all of the buses in that batch are still at Rock Ferry - until Stagecoach take over anyway.

Who know then....

I will go out hunting for them tomorrow see what i find... I'm in the city anyway so will take me camera with me, If i get something good, I will post it here

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The takeover of the Wigan operation will complete 0500 on Sunday

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/Wigan.aspx....has details of ticketing from that date.

I note the comment that there will be a short period where problems may occur until all the Stagecoach ticketing machines are fitted.

I am pleased their web site provided details of exactly what service provision will be made by Stagecoach and the times when only part-day Stagecoach operations will apply. overthewater has kindly made a posting of this specific information on this thread.

 

[MK Tom]

Regarding Northampton I've just been told Uno is 46% owned by Stagecoach... is this true? Regarding the whole company or just the Northy operation? If so that might make some difference to our predictions on this thread about competition on the 4/4A and so on.

 

[markie73]

Regarding Northampton I've just been told Uno is 46% owned by Stagecoach... is this true? Regarding the whole company or just the Northy operation? If so that might make some difference to our predictions on this thread about competition on the 4/4A and so on.

As far as I am aware Uno Bus is a independent operator owned by The University of Hertfordshire although I would be surprised if Stagecoach had anything to do with the operation.

I would have thought that Uno taking over the 4 and 4A would make ideal sense (especialy given the proximaty of the University on the service 4 route), I thought that Uno was supposed to be taking both routes very soon? and that was at least 3 months ago since we heard that news!.

 

[Phil6219]

This is turning out better than expected

I knew the 33 was going over to Stagecoach, I was going to say it's a shame it;ll only be on the evening runs like it is currently but since they are taking over the 32 it's not a problem. The fact they are taking the 32 is excellent as we had originally been told it was moving to Bolton Depot's operations. Excellent news too with the joint running of the X34, it gives them an extra run through this area.

Needless to say I'll be switching to their weekly tickets

Was on the verge of ringing depots last week due to the fun and games encountered with First (the usual, bus nowhere to be seen then turns up "not in service" only dropping passengers off. Later in the day at Bury a high frequency bus is sat at the bus station for 15 minutes (at least) then buggers off out of service, another ten minute wait for a right old banger (was a novel little ride actually but the general public wouldn't have been particularly impressed) and as we pull out 3, thats "three", as in two more than one bleedin 135's pull in together. I know high frequency can cause a bit of bunching up but that tore it. No word of a lie but I spent nearly 5 & a half hours on 4 bus journeys (I'd give a bit of leeway on the Manchester-Bury outbound due to roadworks and an incident but everything was clear in the evening). Hopefully Stagecoach will be miles better (I know they were my first choice for some previous journeys).

Phil

 

[radamfi]

I knew the 33 was going over to Stagecoach, I was going to say it's a shame it;ll only be on the evening runs like it is currently but since they are taking over the 32 it's not a problem.

The daytime 33 only goes from Worsley to Manchester now so I guess that sits better with First.

 

[overthewater]

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/uploads/customerinformationfaresandticketswigan02december2012.pdf

Full brakedown of the fares for the next 4 weeks;

We will be introducing Stagecoach branded buses into the fleet (30 shiny brand new buses and 31 modern buses to replace some of the existing fleet). Whilst this happens it is worth noting that the ticket arrangement will not change (with the exception of the FirstMonth see table). We will be working towards introducing a new range of tickets to purchase from the 6th January 2013.

so that is 60 buses hidding for the bin shortly!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
********ANOTHER TWIST IN NORTHAMPTON****

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/journey_planning/offers/xmas.php

The FirstDay Family ticket allows unlimited travel for a family of 5 on any First bus service within the area shown on the ticket for one day.

Prices Was £6.80 Now £3.40

 

[MK Tom]

********ANOTHER TWIST IN NORTHAMPTON****

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/journey_planning/offers/xmas.php

The FirstDay Family ticket allows unlimited travel for a family of 5 on any First bus service within the area shown on the ticket for one day.

Prices Was £6.80 Now £3.40

For all those families who will have reason to make use of this oh-so comprehensive network... http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/assets/pdfs/journey_planning/maps/northampton.pdf

Compare with Stagecoach network: http://www.stagecoachbus.com/uploads/northamptonjanuary2012outforprint.pdf

Seems like another attempt to get money out of the operation in a way that simply won't financially work I expect.

 

[markie73]

For all those families who will have reason to make use of this oh-so comprehensive network... http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/assets/pdfs/journey_planning/maps/northampton.pdf

Compare with Stagecoach network: http://www.stagecoachbus.com/uploads/northamptonjanuary2012outforprint.pdf

Seems like another attempt to get money out of the operation in a way that simply won't financially work I expect.

So it looks like the Northampton operation will survive Christmas then?

 

[tbtc]

I'm amazed that the Stagecoach website says "30 shiny brand new buses"

 

[Stonesourscotty]

I Plan on being on the last ever first wigan Service on Saturday the 695 3:20 to Upholland. £2 for a 4 mile trip aboard a Eclipse not bad considering Arriva charge over £2.30 for the daytime trip

I know the 635 also departs at 3:20 but it always leaves before the 695 so technically the last ever bus.

Why isnt the 33 going to be run as a dual operation surely thats going to mean alot of System one day tickets are purchased? which would be less money for Stagecoach/first.

 

[overthewater]

Why isnt the 33 going to be run as a dual operation surely thats going to mean alot of System one day tickets are purchased? which would be less money for Stagecoach/first.

It could be make the OFT/CC happy.

 

[Phil6219]

I'm amazed that the Stagecoach website says "30 shiny brand new buses"

Because that's how the public will describe them compared to the usual gumpf running around on some local routes

Originally Posted by Stonesourscotty
Why isnt the 33 going to be run as a dual operation surely thats going to mean alot of System one day tickets are purchased? which would be less money for Stagecoach/first.

It could be make the OFT/CC happy.

I doubt it myself, First already have the 25 running from Manchester-Worsley, they also have a lot of services running from Manchester to Eccles (as well as the 68 which runs through Worsley) so if anything there is no competition there.

Personally I think it is because first want to hold on to that run just in case the previously abandoned congestion charge comes in, its an excellent park and ride opportunity from Worsley should they build a proper car park (not likely given how pompous the population of that "village" are, after all its thanks to their objections that we have the traffic problems on that stretch of motorway but yet again I digress...

Incidentally I saw some photos on Facebook of a Stagecoach "in Wigan" branded bus, can't link to it though for some reason.

Phil

 

[tbtc]

Because that's how the public will describe them compared to the usual gumpf running around on some local routes

Yeah, but the usual corporate website are full of stock phrases about "easy access" and "environmental efficiency" - I can't think that I've seen "shiny" being used before on an official website

 

[overthewater]

Here is the Last revised odds for the rest of the year, taking into account new information etc. If we don't get anything by Wednesday then I dare say its Happy new year first in all the places below: But someone has suggested the following:

Leicester could get sold off with Northampton Clamped on, while Livingston could also be sold off but with Muss clamped on to help push up price, it could just be talk. I do think its possible if there got rid of anything on this list that the £100m could reached

#############################################

First in Northampton:
* betting withdrawn: For it to close down,
* 7/1: For the Depot to be sold off or with Leicester - changed

First Edinburgh
As it stands, there has been some strong talk that a number of interested parities are sniffing around, of course this could mean nothing but with this information
* Livingston EVANS:
* Musselburgh:, 15/8 for next year sell.
* Livingston and Muss sold off together: 13/8
* Scottish borders: 100/30 ( this odd is between 3/1 and 4/1)
* Larbart Or Stirling: 25/1

London Depot
Go ahead has said it would like to get increase it operations in London but could winning contract be the better option? stagecoach was also suppose to be during Dagenham depot but pulled out over the price. London depot would make a better choice to get rid as it could pull in another £10million easily

* Any London Depot 6/4

Redditch and Kidderminster
No new ticket machines?

* 7/4 for a Sell off- changed

First Cornwall
Its been a rather bumpy ride this year, after its gain new council work etc, but strikes and continuing loses are not helping, but who would want to buy it
Or could it just lose its council work and just stuck to its pure core work?

* 15/8 for a Sell off - Changed

First Ipswich
Not big depot but after looking at the Fleet list and some of the recent service changes this could be classed as another underdog depot. Alot of P and R reg stock, nothing that stands out as a cash cow bar the park N ride which could be lost. How much will it cost to replace alot of the fleet even with T, X, reg which is also needed else where?

* 11/4 for a sell off - changed

First Berkshire There has been some talk about the operations around this company. Important facts, its first biggest profit company. The fleet is now not as bad as other place above or even below, while the routes do use older stock could it be another Wigan area? I have doubts since new stock keeps appearing and its been said NEW stock is on the way shortly which should kill off S & T reg buses. Dart 52 plate from London could be drafted in to replace older X reg darts. Unless someone else knows anything else? BUT just this week a solo was repainted in the new livery. Main reason why this is higher then Leicester? because it has older stock and will soon need replacing.

* 6/1 : Sell Off

First Leicester
Fleet is 100% DDA, the network is suppose to be doing great, why waste time, money and effort on a place which does not need it? Many places higher up in this list which needs first attention. But if the above cant make the full amount then something else has to go, and what better than a smaller network which is shared with someone else?

* 8/1: Sell Off

Irish Aircoach
Is the network looking vulnerable at the moment? Some people seem to think so but there also the battle with the publicly owned coach company bus eireann. So there could be a possibility there too, well remember first spent €16.5M for it in 2003:

exchange rate in 2003: €1 = £ 1.44
Today rate is €1 = £0.8043

£13275900, just to get back what there spent. Could First get that at this moment of time? has Eire economy pick up enough? Will Bus Eireann be sold off? could first with a same amount of money make it better?

What other issues are there? Can anyone else say what there are?

* 25/1 for a sell off over the next 14 month...

Fun:
* First York: 50/1
* Aberdeen 100/1
* Manchester , Yorkshire, Glasgow No1 : 200/1

 

[Ivo]

exchange rate in 2003: €1 = £ 1.44

Where the Hell did you get that value from?!

I think you'll find it was the other way round

 

[markie73]

Here is the Last revised odds for the rest of the year, taking into account new information etc. If we don't get anything by Wednesday then I dare say its Happy new year first in all the places below: But someone has suggested the following:

Leicester could get sold off with Northampton Clamped on, while Livingston could also be sold off but with Muss clamped on to help push up price, it could just be talk. I do think its possible if there got rid of anything on this list that the £100m could reached

#############################################

First in Northampton:
* betting withdrawn: For it to close down,
* 7/1: For the Depot to be sold off or with Leicester - changed

First Edinburgh
As it stands, there has been some strong talk that a number of interested parities are sniffing around, of course this could mean nothing but with this information
* Livingston EVANS:
* Musselburgh:, 15/8 for next year sell.
* Livingston and Muss sold off together: 13/8
* Scottish borders: 100/30 ( this odd is between 3/1 and 4/1)
* Larbart Or Stirling: 25/1

London Depot
Go ahead has said it would like to get increase it operations in London but could winning contract be the better option? stagecoach was also suppose to be during Dagenham depot but pulled out over the price. London depot would make a better choice to get rid as it could pull in another £10million easily

* Any London Depot 6/4

Redditch and Kidderminster
No new ticket machines?

* 7/4 for a Sell off- changed

First Cornwall
Its been a rather bumpy ride this year, after its gain new council work etc, but strikes and continuing loses are not helping, but who would want to buy it
Or could it just lose its council work and just stuck to its pure core work?

* 15/8 for a Sell off - Changed

First Ipswich
Not big depot but after looking at the Fleet list and some of the recent service changes this could be classed as another underdog depot. Alot of P and R reg stock, nothing that stands out as a cash cow bar the park N ride which could be lost. How much will it cost to replace alot of the fleet even with T, X, reg which is also needed else where?

* 11/4 for a sell off - changed

First Berkshire There has been some talk about the operations around this company. Important facts, its first biggest profit company. The fleet is now not as bad as other place above or even below, while the routes do use older stock could it be another Wigan area? I have doubts since new stock keeps appearing and its been said NEW stock is on the way shortly which should kill off S & T reg buses. Dart 52 plate from London could be drafted in to replace older X reg darts. Unless someone else knows anything else? BUT just this week a solo was repainted in the new livery. Main reason why this is higher then Leicester? because it has older stock and will soon need replacing.

* 6/1 : Sell Off

First Leicester
Fleet is 100% DDA, the network is suppose to be doing great, why waste time, money and effort on a place which does not need it? Many places higher up in this list which needs first attention. But if the above cant make the full amount then something else has to go, and what better than a smaller network which is shared with someone else?

* 8/1: Sell Off

Irish Aircoach
Is the network looking vulnerable at the moment? Some people seem to think so but there also the battle with the publicly owned coach company bus eireann. So there could be a possibility there too, well remember first spent €16.5M for it in 2003:

exchange rate in 2003: €1 = £ 1.44
Today rate is €1 = £0.8043

£13275900, just to get back what there spent. Could First get that at this moment of time? has Eire economy pick up enough? Will Bus Eireann be sold off? could first with a same amount of money make it better?

What other issues are there? Can anyone else say what there are?

* 25/1 for a sell off over the next 14 month...

Fun:
* First York: 50/1
* Aberdeen 100/1
* Manchester , Yorkshire, Glasgow No1 : 200/1

I will be VERY,VERY suprised to see Leicester get sold off and even more so with Northampton as a bolt on, somebody correct me if I am wrong but is Leicester one of the few profit making depots that First has?.

My money is that First Northampton will close (unless there is a last minute buyer) with some if not all of the existing routes going to Stagecoach initially on a emergency timetable before they get the nod to take the ex-first routes on their books and expand their network.

 

[overthewater]

I will be VERY,VERY suprised to see Leicester get sold off and even more so with Northampton as a bolt on, somebody correct me if I am wrong but is Leicester one of the few profit making depots that First has?.

My money is that First Northampton will close (unless there is a last minute buyer) with some if not all of the existing routes going to Stagecoach initially on a emergency timetable before they get the nod to take the ex-first routes on their books and expand their network.

ALL First Companies make profits expect the following:

* First Glasgow No2 depots:
* First Edinburgh ( two depots shut and muss scaled back )
* First Wyven
* First Chester ( solf off)
* First Northampton
* First Devon and Cornwall: ( Depot already shut)

Can you spot the pattens Stagecoach biggest profit come from Midlands Red South, would there chance it to take over Redditch?

 

[markie73]

ALL First Companies make profits expect the following:

* First Glasgow No2 depots:
* First Edinburgh ( two depots shut and muss scaled back )
* First Wyven
* First Chester ( solf off)
* First Northampton
* First Devon and Cornwall: ( Depot already shut)

Can you spot the pattens Stagecoach biggest profit come from Midlands Red South, would there chance it to take over Redditch?

Would Stagecoach dare take a chance on First Northampton's operations though?, with so many rumors etc floating about regarding Northampton it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Apparently there is going to be something happening in midland red west as I've heard something interesting Will happen

 

[winston270twm]

ALL First Companies make profits expect the following:

* First Glasgow No2 depots:
* First Edinburgh ( two depots shut and muss scaled back )
* First Wyven
* First Chester ( solf off)
* First Northampton
* First Devon and Cornwall: ( Depot already shut)

Can you spot the pattens Stagecoach biggest profit come from Midlands Red South, would there chance it to take over Redditch?

Wyvern must be in pretty poor shape if it can't even make a profit with the Worcester operations, Worcester has pretty much a monopoly over its commercial network, with only some smaller independents fighting over the tendered work

 

[overthewater]

Apparently there is going to be something happening in midland red west as I've heard something interesting Will happen

Can you tell us what it is?

Wyvern must be in pretty poor shape if it can't even make a profit with the Worcester operations, Worcester has pretty much a monopoly over its commercial network, with only some smaller independents fighting over the tendered work

Remember Worcester could make the money but all its profits could be going into a black hole to keep Redditch & Kid afloat.

 

[winston270twm]

There has been some talk about the operations around this company. Important facts, its first biggest profit company.

First Berkshire may earn the highest percentage profit margins within First UK bus, but it wont be the biggest profit earner for First as it's only a relatively small operation. Profit margins & actual profit contributions to group are completely different and will depend of the size of the operation & their revenue

 

[overthewater]

First Berkshire may earn the highest percentage profit margins within First UK bus, but it wont be the biggest profit earner for First as it's only a relatively small operation. Profit margins & actual profit contributions to group are completely different and will depend of the size of the operation & their revenue

It could be First West Yorkshire that has that crown then

 

[tbtc]

Apparently there is going to be something happening in midland red west as I've heard something interesting Will happen

Is this from the same source that said Uno had bought Northampton?

 

[winston270twm]

It could be First West Yorkshire that has that crown then

Possibly FWY or may be even Glasgow. It will definitely be one of the big operations that contributes the most millions of pounds worth of profit to group