First Group: General Discussion

[WatcherZero]

So there is no sell in wigan correct? Mean Wigan carry on on first operation?

Thank you, guys

Martyn

Its on the for sale list but after one of only two agreed deals was blocked by the competition commission the program of sell offs hit the buffers.

 

[anthony263]

Slightly off topic bu there is talk going around of a possible takeover of National express by Stagecoach or Stagecoach taking on some of National Express operations.

Personally I have my doubts about this rumour because of what happened when First tried to sell their devon operations to Stagecoach.

I wouldnt be surprised if Go Ahead and some of the other smaller groups try to buy the operations First are looking to off load and arriva seem to be trying to tighten their grip in the midlands area.

 

[robertclark125]

Slightly off topic bu there is talk going around of a possible takeover of National express by Stagecoach or Stagecoach taking on some of National Express operations.

Personally I have my doubts about this rumour because of what happened when First tried to sell their devon operations to Stagecoach.

I wouldnt be surprised if Go Ahead and some of the other smaller groups try to buy the operations First are looking to off load and arriva seem to be trying to tighten their grip in the midlands area.

It's not the first time the suggestion of stagecoach buying nat ex has came up; back in 2009 I'm sure Stagecoach were looking to buy Nat ex when the latter was having a bad patch. Stagecoach had said if it did buy nat ex, it would sell off the Dundee operations of Nat Ex, and the Midland red South operations it owned.

Back on topic, thanks to that, one ownders if National Express might be interested in increasing its local bus portfolio, although the semi rural area of some of the areas rumoured to be up for sale might put National Express, whose local bus interests are almost entirely urban, off.

 

[tbtc]

Beyond the West Midlands and Dundee bus operations, there's not really that much to National Express, since they don't run the vast majority of "National Express" branded coaches.

As Stagecoach have shown with Megabus, there's little problem entering the long distance coach market (compared to the cost of buying National Express)

Stagecoach wouldn't be allowed Dundee or Coventry (on competition grounds), and I doubt NatEx would ever sell up in Birmingham unless they were selling out completely.

 

[overthewater]

I could only see Go-ahead, rota or Transdav taking over Nat Exp bus compaine, I dare say that would make the OFT, CC happy as a new big player would appear. :P

I take it then OFT has destroy any chance of a first selling of companies? First must know Stagecoach are not the only buyers, I doubt Arriva would want anything, you would think GO Ahead ( as stated in a FT) would want to buy a number of depots, especial since there have money to spend and are not in debt like first.

The only company I could see taking over Cornwall would be Greyhound which I doubt has the cash to buy the company out....

 

[Scania3379man]

thank for that info, but im not sure if that information is confirm is Stagecoach, rotala and SLT battle to buy off at wigan depot or buses it that any true?

that one someone told me on facebook if anyone know about that?

Please forgive me if my english sentence not good please inform me as i want sign on video with subitiles if possible adm agree with that?

Thank you very much.

Martyn

Its on the for sale list but after one of only two agreed deals was blocked by the competition commission the program of sell offs hit the buffers.

 

[mbonwick]

Your post doesn't make much sense.

I'm afraid we don't know who's in the bidding for Wigan, and nor will we know until an announcment is made.

 

[Scania3379man]

oh sorry forgive me, I can't help it being good english sentence because im profoundly deaf and use sign language not write on english. Anyway someone told me 3 will competition for wigan bus in 3 month time.

thank you

Martyn

Your post doesn't make much sense.

I'm afraid we don't know who's in the bidding for Wigan, and nor will we know until an announcment is made.

 

[overthewater]

oh sorry forgive me, I can't help it being good english sentence because im profoundly deaf and use sign language not write on english. Anyway someone told me 3 will competition for wigan bus in 3 month time.thank youMartyn

So by xmas we might know if Wigan is sold, I wonder how much that could bring in. Were still waiting on Chester, Northampton, another Scottish depot being sold of closed down.

I dare say everyone is still complex on here on how First are going to get other £80million, the sums just dont add up.

 

[Scania3379man]

I know wait n see what happen on december.

if not after December first will close wigan bus and route, I'm not sure, pal

cheer,
Martyn

So by xmas we might know if Wigan is sold, I wonder how much that could bring in. Were still waiting on Chester, Northampton, another Scottish depot being sold of closed down.

I dare say everyone is still complex on here on how First are going to get other £80million, the sums just dont add up.

 

[overthewater]

I know wait n see what happen on december.
if not after December first will close wigan bus and route, I'm not sure, pal
cheer,
Martyn

I doubt first will close Wigan, since it makes money, unlike Northampton, FSE, Parts of Midland red, which have all made losses.

 

[Scania3379man]

Exactly tho, pal. Let hope so.

cheer, pal and im off to bed now

good night

Martyn

I doubt first will close Wigan, since it makes money, unlike Northampton, FSE, Parts of Midland red, which have all made losses.

 

[robertclark125]

I just wonder if certain routes at certain depots might be sold, as opposed to whole operations. Scania3379man mentions Wigan. It may be that some marginal routes from the depot could be sold, but the bulk of the operations are retained.

But also, as Mbonwick says, we can speculate till the cows come home. The reality is, we'll have to wait and see what any announcements say.

 

[overthewater]

I was lead to believe something was to appear over the last two weeks, I think this oft has put a spanner in the works.

Go ahead has confirmed at looking a bolt on, but I can't see them buying single depot in random places.

 

[tbtc]

I doubt first will close Wigan, since it makes money, unlike Northampton, FSE, Parts of Midland red, which have all made losses.

...but then it'd be a lot easier to sell a "profitable" depot than a loss making one - who is going to pay much for a depot that loses money hand over fist?

 

[MK Tom]

...but then it'd be a lot easier to sell a "profitable" depot than a loss making one - who is going to pay much for a depot that loses money hand over fist?

I think everybody knows that nobody's going to buy Northampton anyway - any chance of that was scuppered when First decided to downgrade the entire fleet. But they still save money month-on-month from simply not operating it; I'm sure that's what's going to happen. They just seem to be waiting for the right moment to announce that.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

I was lead to believe something was to appear over the last two weeks, I think this oft has put a spanner in the works.

Go ahead has confirmed at looking a bolt on, but I can't see them buying single depot in random places.

Unless they are dropping hints they want back into the West Midlands

 

[overthewater]

Unless they are dropping hints they want back into the West Midlands

Well that mean there could buy Redd & kidd, I dare say this will once again refuel talk of Go-ahead buying Rota.

Some Key questions are still unanswered:

* How are first going to cuts its debts?
* How are there going to replace the fleet?
* How are there going to turn around loss making areas without destroying the network?

Also it now seems FIRST do not believe there will have any more problems with the OFT ( this is there own words) so that now rules out a number of sell out to companies.

 

[MCW]

thats interesting... a luton bendy has turned up in Leicester, allocated to Leicester... that is really strange...

 

[westcoaster]

thats interesting... a luton bendy has turned up in Leicester, allocated to Leicester... that is really strange...

Ah that's why a first wright eclipse has turned up at Luton parkway in fg colours.

 

[MK Tom]

thats interesting... a luton bendy has turned up in Leicester, allocated to Leicester... that is really strange...

Maybe Northampton trying to move the Luton operation off to another depot?

 

[westcoaster]

Maybe Northampton trying to move the Luton operation off to another depot?

How does the operation work at parkway, is it an outstation in a loose scence, where does maintenance work happen, who fuels the buses and so on.

 

[sonic2009]

Just found what looks to be a fleet list for First Midlands, and does include Northampton & Luton.

http://www.busenthusiast.webspace.virginmedia.com/fleet/firstmidlands.pdf

Do not know how old this information is, but it lists an outstation at Luton where the bendies for the shuttle service are kept.

The outstation's address is a farm and leisure park.

Hmmm very interesting.

 

[MK Tom]

The bendies make frequent appearances at First Northampton's depot for all sorts of reasons though. Can't be much of an outstation. I'm guessing that when Northy closes it'll switch to one of First's North London depots.

 

[westcoaster]

Reading online it seems as though UNO has been granted an operating license for 30 buses in Northampton

Alan also says that the operating licence granted to Uno is for an operating base at Park Campus for 30 vehicles. 30? Watch out First; watch out Stageocach, Uno has arrived.

http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/what-do-you-know-about-uno-3.html

 

[overthewater]

Reading online it seems as though UNO has been granted an operating license for 30 buses in Northampton

http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/what-do-you-know-about-uno-3.html

What will Uno do to make the depot make money?

 

[mbonwick]

I believe they're only operating services linking the University campuses and the bus/railway stations.

Obviously there's a huge market of students to tap into, so there shouldn't be a profits problem.

 

[MK Tom]

I believe they're only operating services linking the University campuses and the bus/railway stations.

Obviously there's a huge market of students to tap into, so there shouldn't be a profits problem.

They have made clear an intention to expand considerably beyond those two routes via their Facebook page. The current fleet is only nine I believe - seven Citaros for the 19 and two Solos for the 18.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From the excellent Public Transport Experience blog (http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.co.uk/):

An unverified report from a Union meeting at the First depot says that the sale of the Northampton operation will be announced in 5 or 6 weeks. We await further confirmation. You read it here first : probably?

 

[Volvodart]

The First financial half year ends next week. They have to announce the results in about 6 weeks, so will be under pressure to have some progress on the disposals by then.

 

[overthewater]

The First financial half year ends next week. They have to announce the results in about 6 weeks, so will be under pressure to have some progress on the disposals by then.

So that takes us in to November, what happens if there have not made any progress? will the share price start heading down? its not going to help its debt pills.