First Group: General Discussion

[MCW]

Something is going on with Leicester, cause we now seem to be swapping buses with the Potteries division, heard through the grapevine that we are swapping deckers for singles with them.

Also I think they are trying to chop out as many old vehicles as possible, a leicester allocated trainer (dennis lance) has just gone, and apparently that was homed at Kidderminster, despite the allocation to Leicester.... weird...

Any northampton residents/bashers out there? has the service gone further downhill or is it Business as usual?

 

[overthewater]

Do you think first are trying to get rid of leicester?

 

[MK Tom]

I doubt that. Leicester hasn't seen anything like the kind of route losses and vehicle worsenings that Northampton has seen. It's seen some alright, but not on the same level.

I guess I'm a 'Northampton basher' were ever such a title to be crowbarred into existence. We seem to be frozen at the instant of death right now. The same dilapidated vehicles doing the same seven routes with the same air of expectant looming doom but no actual changes in the last several weeks.

On a plus for Northampton, Uno are starting driver training.

 

[MCW]

Do you think first are trying to get rid of leicester?

I doubt that. Leicester hasn't seen anything like the kind of route losses and vehicle worsenings that Northampton has seen. It's seen some alright, but not on the same level.

I guess I'm a 'Northampton basher' were ever such a title to be crowbarred into existence. We seem to be frozen at the instant of death right now. The same dilapidated vehicles doing the same seven routes with the same air of expectant looming doom but no actual changes in the last several weeks.

On a plus for Northampton, Uno are starting driver training.

Time will tell.... I think with us it's more of a case that they will wind down very slowly.

Sorry about the title I couldn't think of another one

Glad to hear Uno are training, that's great news. Also are 121 and 122 still knocking about in the northampton fleet?

 

[MK Tom]

Time will tell.... I think with us it's more of a case that they will wind down very slowly.

Sorry about the title I couldn't think of another one

Glad to hear Uno are training, that's great news. Also are 121 and 122 still knocking about in the northampton fleet?

Yeah. You can usually catch them spluttering their way up to Brackmills on the 23 in the morning, then lulling about hugging the wall at Greyfriars all day before going back out on the 23. During school time the Geminis tend to do the 23 with 121/122 doing school runs. All four will generally appear on the 4/4A if they have nothing else to do. The Geminis turn up on the 12 quite often too opposite the Lances.

Seems the earlier rumours that First Leicester might take over the X7 were hollow. The Stagecoach X7 is extended to Milton Keynes from October 15th according to Northants CC.

 

[overthewater]

I doubt that. Leicester hasn't seen anything like the kind of route losses and vehicle worsenings that Northampton has seen. It's seen some alright, but not on the same level.

I guess I'm a 'Northampton basher' were ever such a title to be crowbarred into existence. We seem to be frozen at the instant of death right now. The same dilapidated vehicles doing the same seven routes with the same air of expectant looming doom but no actual changes in the last several weeks.

On a plus for Northampton, Uno are starting driver training.

Hopeful Next week should sort out that issue.

 

[tbtc]

Something is going on with Leicester, cause we now seem to be swapping buses with the Potteries division, heard through the grapevine that we are swapping deckers for singles with them

Do you know whether the Leicester deckers are older/ younger than the Staffordshire singles?

 

[MCW]

Do you know whether the Leicester deckers are older/ younger than the Staffordshire singles?

the ones that are going staffs will probably be the 54 reg ones. In exchange we're getting the equivalent in singles.

 

[MK Tom]

Hopeful Next week should sort out that issue.

Please do elaborate if possible!

I want to get up to Northy for one more trip around the First network, on the last day if possible. Also any news on who is or isn't buying or taking over closed routes etc would be awesome.

 

[overthewater]

Please do elaborate if possible!

I want to get up to Northy for one more trip around the First network, on the last day if possible. Also any news on who is or isn't buying or taking over closed routes etc would be awesome.

Talk has been that first will make announcements etc aafter the games are finished. Next Monday is the start of every thing getting sorted. I believe first did not want bad news during the games.

I believe Chester could be explained as well.

 

[robertclark125]

Talk has been that first will make announcements etc aafter the games are finished. Next Monday is the start of every thing getting sorted. I believe first did not want bad news during the games.

I believe Chester could be explained as well.

Firstgroup is listed on the stock exchange, so I'd have thought that if there was to be a major announcement, that could affect the share price, then they would have to inform the stock exchange first, before making the public announcement. So, you may well be advised to check out the official stock exchange website (if there is one) to find out about any announcements.

And, I'll try and find such a website for you all.

 

[MCW]

Firstgroup is listed on the stock exchange, so I'd have thought that if there was to be a major announcement, that could affect the share price, then they would have to inform the stock exchange first, before making the public announcement. So, you may well be advised to check out the official stock exchange website (if there is one) to find out about any announcements.

And, I'll try and find such a website for you all.

Thought they used to keep stock price info on their website?

 

[robertclark125]

Thought they used to keep stock price info on their website?

What I was meaning is that, under stock exchange rules, if there is something that's going to occur, or which you are going to announce in public, that could have a dramatic effect on your share price, you must inform the stock exchange first. A good example was when the SPL was created in 1997. Heart of Midlothian had to inform the stock exchange the day before the official announcement by the clubs to create the SPL, as it could have a bearing on their share price.

Such a move is also designed to prevent insider dealing, and to root out anyone trying to involve themselves in insider dealing.

 

[tbtc]

I wonder what difference it would make to the First share price - more attractive (getting rid of "poor" parts of business) or less attractive (a smaller business)

 

[robertclark125]

This is the official London Stock Exchange website

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/home/homepage.htm

As for any effect on share price, it's a hard one to call. But, it'll depend on what's being sold, and how much money is raised, as to what direction it goes. The reason First must tell the stock exchange, as do other businesses listed on it, is to prevent someone in the know buying the shares cheaply, and possibly then selling them on at a higher price. If I remember rightly, a newspaper business journalist was caught doing this, what is known as insider dealing.

 

[overthewater]

Very useful, BUT would the following really effect the Share price?

* Chester
* Northampton
* First Glasgow NO2 depots
* Livingston

which are all in the RED:

 

[robertclark125]

Yes it could. If a number of sales are gonig to take place in a short space of time, such as Cumbernauld and Rock Ferry to Stagecoach, then it could affect the share price, and so the LSE would have to be told.

 

[overthewater]

We shall see from next week!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/...rket-news-detail.html?announcementId=11318444

It shames the broad members are buying shares.

 

[Volvodart]

The new issue of Passenger Transport reports that First attempted to sell its Plymouth operations to a local company during the disposal programme, but it fell through due to the risks involved (report para 33 - see below). The risks are also understood to have deterred local operators bidding for some of the smaller businesses up for sale.

The article refers to the OFT report into the Stagecoach acquisition of the North Devon business which can be downloaded here:-

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/mergers/decisions/2012/stagecoach

It also reports that First are considering extending its disposal programme from smaller operations to encompass subbstantial parts of its businesses in Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall.

 

[overthewater]

Would Any one else really want to buy North Devon?

Also something rather interesting: https://twitter.com/firstbuscoo/status/243718837290278913/photo/1

 

[MK Tom]

Could be several months apparently...https://twitter.com/firstbuscoo/status/243782645757145088

 

[mbonwick]

Don't believe that, what do you expect them to say?

They can't say anything more short term than a few months because of issues with share trading that have been mentioned.

 

[overthewater]

it starting to seems this whole Sell off things has fizzed out and first dont want to sell of any compaines. I would love to know how there going to clear off its debts and invests in much needed additions low floor buses.

 

[Volvodart]

The FT reports that GoAhead are looking for bus businesses to buy inside the UK but outside Go Ahead’s traditional south-east base.

 

[overthewater]

The FT reports that GoAhead are looking for bus businesses to buy inside the UK but outside Go Ahead’s traditional south-east base.

Is that in today's?

 

[A0]

Don't believe that, what do you expect them to say?

They can't say anything more short term than a few months because of issues with share trading that have been mentioned.

Absolutely right - they can only comment on a deal which has been completed and the city know about.

And I hardly think that expanding into MK is where First will go - they're trying to off-load unprofitable operations, not take more on. MKs bus market has only ever been able to sustain one major operator (United Counties > MK City Bus > MK Metro > Arriva) - whenever any other operator has tried to establish themselves in MK it has always ended in failure.

As for their departure from Northampton, as someone who lives in Northampton, I have to say it really can't come soon enough. They're operations in Northampton are, quite frankly, appalling and have been for a very long time. Thankfully Stagecoach have served and continue to serve Northampton very well, with reliable services and modern, clean buses. The difference couldn't be more marked.

 

[MK Tom]

Absolutely right - they can only comment on a deal which has been completed and the city know about.

And I hardly think that expanding into MK is where First will go - they're trying to off-load unprofitable operations, not take more on. MKs bus market has only ever been able to sustain one major operator (United Counties > MK City Bus > MK Metro > Arriva) - whenever any other operator has tried to establish themselves in MK it has always ended in failure.

As for their departure from Northampton, as someone who lives in Northampton, I have to say it really can't come soon enough. Their operations in Northampton are, quite frankly, appalling and have been for a very long time. Thankfully Stagecoach have served and continue to serve Northampton very well, with reliable services and modern, clean buses. The difference couldn't be more marked.

I only said the MK thing as a joke, which he clearly understood.

I do agree with the SC/First comparison but as we've discussed before Stagecoach's extortionate fares complicate the situation and First are the descendants of the once-great Northampton Transport, the loss of which is a sad thing indeed.

 

[A0]

I only said the MK thing as a joke, which he clearly understood.

I do agree with the SC/First comparison but as we've discussed before Stagecoach's extortionate fares complicate the situation and First are the descendants of the once-great Northampton Transport, the loss of which is a sad thing indeed.

And I think you're wrong on the fares as well, take a look at a 'Dayrider' ticket for Northampton:

Stagecoach £ 3.40

http://www.stagecoachbus.co.uk/northampton-dayrider-megarider.aspx

First £ 3.90

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/tickets/firstday/

And Stagecoach cover more of the town, usually with higher frequencies and run their buses much later into the evening, so to my mind, it really is no contest who offers better value.

 

[MK Tom]

And I think you're wrong on the fares as well, take a look at a 'Dayrider' ticket for Northampton:

Stagecoach £ 3.40

http://www.stagecoachbus.co.uk/northampton-dayrider-megarider.aspx

First £ 3.90

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/tickets/firstday/

And Stagecoach cover more of the town, usually with higher frequencies and run their buses much later into the evening, so to my mind, it really is no contest who offers better value.

That's interesting. I was going by the single fares where Stagecoach charge a shocking £2.15. I discussed the other absurd fares I've experienced in the area in previous posts.

 

[overthewater]

It's also been said more passengers and better profits came from all day/week tickets .