First Group: General Discussion

[ChrisPJ]

Except for the fact that doing so will further strengthen an expansionist neighbour, see Edinburgh, Northampton, Plymouth etc etc etc.

 

[Robertj21a]

Except for the fact that doing so will further strengthen an expansionist neighbour, see Edinburgh, Northampton, Plymouth etc etc etc.

Inevitable when the weak go to the wall. No harm in having a strong, dominant, operator (often Stagecoach) if they act responsibly.

 

[smtglasgow]

First won't pull out of Paisley. The new arrangement means that they serve the two main sources of traffic – University of West of Scotland and the town centre – while reducing the PVR by 1 or 2. Worth noting that the frequency remains every 10 mins (and every 5 mins from Hillington Rd into the City) and there has been no reduction in the evening service. If the 9 was struggling, First would soon reduce frequencies. The 9/9a are very busy routes at the Glasgow end – not uncommon to see full buses throughout the day – but McGills are undoubtedly busier at the Paisley end. The Firstweek/Firstcard is still a strong draw for anyone looking to connect with the city network. Funnily enough I used the 9 to get to UWS last week – first time I’d used the 9 to Paisley – and the bus was busy both ways, but I did notice that there seem to be more shabby-looking Tridents creeping onto the route. I’m not a big McGills fan, but their presentation is excellent.

 

[overthewater]

Except for the fact that doing so will further strengthen an expansionist neighbour, see Edinburgh, Northampton, Plymouth etc etc etc.

To be fair Northampton has two other operates running about which keeps Stagecoach on its toes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be fair Northampton has two other operates running about which keeps Stagecoach on its toes.

Really? Uno have a few routes.

Meridian and Country Lion barely register on the consciousness of Stagecoach, no more than anywhere else.

 

[overthewater]

To the MCC; there just see stagecoach not having an monopoly.

 

[Robertj21a]

Really? Uno have a few routes.

Meridian and Country Lion barely register on the consciousness of Stagecoach, no more than anywhere else.

Plus a little bit of Z&S and a few trips around the villages by Centrebus.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To the MCC; there just see stagecoach not having an monopoly.

What do the Marylebone Cricket Club have to do with it?

The MMC (Monopolies and Mergers Commission) was replaced by the Competition Commission in 1999 and the CC/OFT forming the CMA.

If First elected to withdraw from Paisley then what could the CMA do? The First North Devon sale was referred to the CC; instead they just closed down. No imposition of rules on Stagecoach. It's unlikely but if First were to withdraw, the onus would fall on McGills.

The difference therefore is the sale and transfer of assets and that's why the CMA are interested in East Lothian.
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Plus a little bit of Z&S and a few trips around the villages by Centrebus.

Little being the operative word!

 

[THarris123]

Do we know what's happening with the remainder of this years order?

It looks as though only 8 new E200s are going to Potteries, not the 15 that we initially thought. Where are the other 7 going?

What's happened with Slough's new E200MMCs?

What are the new vehicles in Slough and Potteries replacing?

 

[Robertj21a]

Do we know what's happening with the remainder of this years order?

It looks as though only 8 new E200s are going to Potteries, not the 15 that we initially thought. Where are the other 7 going?

What's happened with Slough's new E200MMCs?

What are the new vehicles in Slough and Potteries replacing?

Potteries have now got 8, but a 9th will also be arriving - so far replacing ex-Leicester Vo B7TL/ALX 400s.

 

[THarris123]

Potteries have now got 8, but a 9th will also be arriving - so far replacing ex-Leicester Vo B7TL/ALX 400s.

So its just 9. Wonder why only the 9 compared to what we were quoted earlier in the year?
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So its just 9. Wonder why only the 9 compared to what we were quoted earlier in the year?

Have there been some swaps between Potteries and Leicester involving some B7Ls? I know some have moved, but I don't know what the plan is exactly - are all B7Ls heading to Leicester?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So its just 9. Wonder why only the 9 compared to what we were quoted earlier in the year?
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Have there been some swaps between Potteries and Leicester involving some B7Ls? I know some have moved, but I don't know what the plan is exactly - are all B7Ls heading to Leicester?

There was a further PVR reduction so fewer vehicles required inbound IIRC. Probably struggling to justify that many new vehicles (even though 16 wasn't the biggest order ever).

 

[Robertj21a]

There was a further PVR reduction so fewer vehicles required inbound IIRC. Probably struggling to justify that many new vehicles (even though 16 wasn't the biggest order ever).

Th 15 or 16 originally quoted was, I believe, hoping that they would receive some grant (can't recall what) - but they didn't, hence only 9.

Some of Potteries B7L buses have transferred to Leicester and 4 of Leicester's Geminis are transferring to Potteries.

 

[THarris123]

Th 15 or 16 originally quoted was, I believe, hoping that they would receive some grant (can't recall what) - but they didn't, hence only 9.

Some of Potteries B7L buses have transferred to Leicester and 4 of Leicester's Geminis are transferring to Potteries.

I guess Leicester don't need the deckers - or are they due some new ones next year?

 

[Robertj21a]

I guess Leicester don't need the deckers - or are they due some new ones next year?

No orders confirmed yet for next year. Potteries need the deckers for their Uni route 25.

 

[KendalKing]

Do we know what's happening with the remainder of this years order?

Your guess is as good as anyone's..........

It looks as though only 8 new E200s are going to Potteries, not the 15 that we initially thought.

This has been confirmed on their website.

Potteries need the deckers for their Uni route 25.

Some additional Decker's have recently been transferred to the Potteries.

 

[oldman]

Much as usual from First's half-year report:

First Bus like-for-like4 passenger revenue decreased by 1.3% as a
result of ongoing industry-wide demand challenges; cost actions partially
mitigated the impact of currency fluctuations on fuel

 

[THarris123]

Much as usual from First's half-year report:

Looks like more cost saving ahead for the bus division according to the report. I wonder how many more depots will close (or be relocated).

Also interesting to note that Bristol will be trialling bank payment methods according to the report.

 

[overthewater]

Looks like more cost saving ahead for the bus division according to the report. I wonder how many more depots will close (or be relocated).

Also interesting to note that Bristol will be trialling bank payment methods according to the report.

Since there is at least two depot are getting the chop I doubt anything else will.

Expect more back office cuts.

 

[THarris123]

Since there is at least two depot are getting the chop I doubt anything else will.

Expect more back office cuts.

Well hopefully. There can't be many more depots to go.

What are the two depots? Rotherham?

 

[overthewater]

Well hopefully. There can't be many more depots to go.

What are the two depots? Rotherham?

Remember there is also one in Manchester. After that I just cant see how there can roll back.

 

[Robertj21a]

Weymouth can't be long given their endless strikes - one for next year perhaps ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Remember there is also one in Manchester. After that I just cant see how there can roll back.

Ahhh.... the endless speculation as people try to work out if any depots will close and then try to predict where they might be

There are still plenty of potential opportunities where depots could be consolidated but I'm steering clear of a) unfounded speculation and b) the fact that it isn't smart or clever to go on about people possibly losing their jobs
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Weymouth can't be long given their endless strikes - one for next year perhaps ?

I don't know about the likelihood of that happening or comment unduly but the fact that they have been offered most of what they wanted and still wish to carry out action is saddening, bemusing and may ultimately be counterproductive

 

[overthewater]

Ahhh.... the endless speculation as people try to work out if any depots will close and then try to predict where they might be

There are still plenty of potential opportunities where depots could be consolidated but I'm steering clear of a) unfounded speculation and b) the fact that it isn't smart or clever to go on about people possibly losing their jobs

I thought it was made clear there were plans to shut one of the Manchester depots down? Either by moving stock around etc?

 

[THarris123]

I thought it was made clear there were plans to shut one of the Manchester depots down? Either by moving stock around etc?

The way how I look at it is that each region has near enough seen either a depot close, sold or transfer, along with plenty of cuts to services in all areas. I really can't see any more depot closures, with only the possible exception of Weymouth and im very hopeful that nothing will change in terms of the depots. I'd like to see some expansion, but whether we'll see that I have no idea.

I was thinking earlier - could they move some of their back office functions to Aberdeen? In the south west, customer service is generally run by Norwich, so it might as well be Aberdeen.
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Remember there is also one in Manchester. After that I just cant see how there can roll back.

Thought that was the other one you meant. Hopefully that will be all for a few years now.

 

[Robertj21a]

I thought it was made clear there were plans to shut one of the Manchester depots down? Either by moving stock around etc?

Tim O'Toole confirmed, some months ago, that a Manchester-area depot would close.

 

[THarris123]

Tim O'Toole confirmed, some months ago, that a Manchester-area depot would close.

Didn't i hear somewhere it would be the Penine depot? Hopefully will be the only one.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought it was made clear there were plans to shut one of the Manchester depots down? Either by moving stock around etc?

My response to you was more on the view that you couldn't see where else there are opportunities to amalgamate and rationalise. However, I can't the point of people going "OOOH, is it depot W, or depot X, or depot Y, or depot 42"....

There are opportunities to obtain savings from further property rationalisation and other initiatives. And yes, TOT did say they were looking at a Manchester depot BUT at least three different Manchester ones have been speculated upon, depending on where you look.

 

[overthewater]

My response to you was more on the view that you couldn't see where else there are opportunities to amalgamate and rationalise. However, I can't the point of people going "OOOH, is it depot W, or depot X, or depot Y, or depot 42"....
.

I see, My point was mainly I just dont believe there can be any more cuts.

 

[Robertj21a]

I see, My point was mainly I just dont believe there can be any more cuts.

Well if they still can't get the share price much above the 100-110p range then I guess they'll need to find something significant before too long. There's only so long that shareholders will wait.