First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

The X1 was introduced at the time these fine motors entered service.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/57727...-FRF2yn-25hgZsU-2gbSJSc-2gbT4wk-qqxfoo-8RJCsX

Christ I wasn't even 1 til the month after that picture was taken Didn't realise it's been a service for so long

 

[PaulMc7]

"Graeme Macfarlan, commercial director for First Glasgow, said: “At First Glasgow, we conduct a review of our network on a regular basis to ensure that our coverage remains in line with demand for our services in a given area.
Understandable.

“As a responsible operator, we also need to be mindful of the effects that operating services that carry very few, if any passengers at all, can have on the environment"
or because the firm can't way up the outlay on E6 vehicles so would rather try a new answer to the petition, emissions are the problems?

“The Service X1 is a route that has been in decline for a number of years in terms of passenger numbers, despite a number of efforts to make the route attractive to service users".
A Number of efforts? Perhaps Special fares? Using grubby B9TLs? Perhaps a pinch of good advertising and PR for the route? Perhaps upgrading to coach opp?

Nice try First, but you failed a case.

Posted on Daily Record...

Apart from the gold branding thing that seemed to disappear after 5mins did they ever try anything on the X1? Swear the last thing I can find info on being a change was cutting the Hillhouse part off of the off peak service in 2005

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Christ I wasn't even 1 til the month after that picture was taken Didn't realise it's been a service for so long

Around 25 years ago not long after KCB were acquired by SB Holdings.

 

[PaulMc7]

Around 25 years ago not long after KCB were acquired by SB Holdings.

Nice info to know. I'm only 25 now lol. Seen a lot of older stuff and it just makes me think First could do with a new paint overhaul and colour change

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Perhaps upgrading to coach opp?

Coaches would never have worked as it's used for local journeys within Hamilton.

 

[PaulMc7]

Coaches would never have worked as it's used for local journeys within Hamilton.

Agree with this. They tried it with some of the 1s at peaks and they were a problem because of a lot of narrow streets plus they just to randomly shove them on 1Cs and shorter 1/1A workings to Clydebank and Bellsmyre

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but a full length peak service on the x1 with a coach, cut back to an hourly service to Hamilton town centre off peak with a town service shuttle off peak...

 

[PaulMc7]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but a full length peak service on the x1, cut back to an hourly service to Hamilton town centre off peak with a town service connecting shuttle off peak...

That's similar to what I suggested earlier but it wasn't quite that. Mines was cut everything to just Hamilton town centre off peak but keep the same peak or with a journey or 2 less

 

[overthewater]

Do you have a link to the Daily record for this ?

 

[PaulMc7]

Do you have a link to the Daily record for this ?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/petition-launched-stop-first-bus-20253906

Here it is. Not surprised the petition has that many signatures already

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but a full length peak service on the x1, cut back to an hourly service to Hamilton town centre off peak with a town service connecting shuttle off peak...

I think you're clutching at straws. I'm not entirely sure of the X1 route as it's years since I've been in Hamilton but it probably doesn't take that much longer if you're in say Hillhouse where you can take the 226 to Burnbank and connect onto the 267 to Glasgow. It's rather unfortunate if you're travelling from Fairhill and Low Waters Road to Glasgow as journey times will increase by quite a bit.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/petition-launched-stop-first-bus-20253906

Here it is. Not surprised the petition has that many signatures already

Neither am I as most of the signatures will be from people who don't use it.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think you're clutching at straws. I'm not entirely sure of the X1 route as it's years since I've been in Hamilton but it probably doesn't take that much longer if you're in say Hillhouse where you can take the 226 to Burnbank and connect onto the 267 to Glasgow. It's rather unfortunate if you're travelling from Fairhill and Low Waters Road to Glasgow as journey times will increase by quite a bit.

Even with that it still pretty much doubles the journey time not to mention having to cross a busy route and time a 2nd bus. Works out as close to a 90min journey even going that way and closer to 2 hours from Fairhill/Low Waters Road etc plus at the Fairhill end the 226 route is different to the X1 meaning no bus for people to use because the 225 route is supposedly going to be different from the X1's in parts. Not sure exactly how different but we shall see. I'm all for cutting loss makers but not without consultation or trying something different with the service to bring attention to it and with the X1 First haven't done a thing of note

 

[PaulMc7]

Neither am I as most of the signatures will be from people who don't use it.

Yeah they definitely won't be too many but the problem is that MSP attention etc and it being a service heavily used at peaks will only damage First's reputation further meaning more people will jump ship to Scotrail and that will make them lose more money

 

[PaulMc7]

Didn't think we would get so much discussion out of 1 bus cut but here we are everyone.

If anything this has shown why you think of consequences before you do something and ultimately it's clear they made the cut expecting everyone to just jump onto their other services and that really won't happen. Bad publicity will cost them more than the X1 cut will save them too. Another First failure when it comes to customer relationships and building customer loyalty.

Just to reiterate too I agree that loss makers should be cut but you need to try multiple ways to attempt to fix it first. The X1 hasn't been touched in ages and nothing new has been tried with it. No wonder it doesn't do well

Anyone else got anything we've not covered to discuss? The 6/6A still doesn't have a registration on VOSA either after the cancelled one

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Didn't think we would get so much discussion out of 1 bus cut but here we are everyone.

If anything this has shown why you think of consequences before you do something and ultimately it's clear they made the cut expecting everyone to just jump onto their other services and that really won't happen. Bad publicity will cost them more than the X1 cut will save them too. Another First failure when it comes to customer relationships and building customer loyalty.

Just to reiterate too I agree that loss makers should be cut but you need to try multiple ways to attempt to fix it first. The X1 hasn't been touched in ages and nothing new has been tried with it. No wonder it doesn't do well

Anyone else got anything we've not covered to discuss? The 6/6A still doesn't have a registration on VOSA either after the cancelled one

Well, its far too frequent on GWR.

 

[PaulMc7]

Well, its far too frequent on GWR.

Yeah definitely. The problem is they're horrifically unreliable so down to every 12 mins each is probably the most that they can do with them. It's the same with the 3. Could easily go every 12mins too. If there's savings to be made for PVR targeting the services that are affected by holiday timetables as it is throughout the year would be the best way to go

 

[mde]

Definitely. It's far too easy to get one too. I see so many people near me who probably don't need them yet I've seen elderly people with limited mobility who don't have one

You've obviously never dealt with SPT - unless it's a 60+ card you'll have a hard time getting a card out of them without proper documentation… there's a lot of claims that go round about these cards being "far too easy" to obtain; yet, it's a claim that is rarely backed with evidence.

 

[lastbus]

Yeah definitely. The problem is they're horrifically unreliable so down to every 12 mins each is probably the most that they can do with them. It's the same with the 3. Could easily go every 12mins too. If there's savings to be made for PVR targeting the services that are affected by holiday timetables as it is throughout the year would be the best way to go

The PVRs being cut by taking off or lowering the frequency of services that are not making money. The services you suggest cutting to every 12 mins are ones which do make money. They are cut to 12 mins during holidays as there is less footfall during these times. First are not cutting routes for the fun of it it’s very much needs must.

 

[PaulMc7]

The PVRs being cut by taking off or lowering the frequency of services that are not making money. The services you suggest cutting to every 12 mins are ones which do make money. They are cut to 12 mins during holidays as there is less footfall during these times. First are not cutting routes for the fun of it it’s very much needs must.

I use the 6 a lot and the West end part of the route is definitely not quieter during holidays with the exception of schools, colleges. If anything during the summer it was always far busier and the exact same thing with the 3. There's been times off peak during holidays with a 3 that you are lucky if you time it well enough to get a seat

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The PVRs being cut by taking off or lowering the frequency of services that are not making money. The services you suggest cutting to every 12 mins are ones which do make money. They are cut to 12 mins during holidays as there is less footfall during these times. First are not cutting routes for the fun of it it’s very much needs must.

Exactly this!!

Those timetable adjustments are to reflect demand. When the demand goes up, so does the frequency. By cutting the PVR on profitable, strong services, you disadvantage those strong services (and so reduce their profitability). Cutting other routes ISN'T going to make the X1 profitable, is it?

Meanwhile, the X1 will continue to lose money. Now this is the points that people aren't grasping somehow.

• There aren't enough X1 passengers - it loses money
• They've taken the view that increased marketing spend won't be recouped - that's their opinion
• By taking it off, you stop losing money - First will be better off
• If they lose every single Glasgow bound passenger, First will still be better off
  • They will be ok with losing each one to the train.
• If you keep the peak service and reduce the off peak, you save virtually nothing (just some diesel/tyre wear) as the bulk of the costs are fixed
• If only half the 3500 signatures on the petition used the bus every day, it would be more than profitable. Clearly, they don't!
• The "bad press argument" - it is bad for those directly affected but for other people, it won't impact them. It just won't and will soon be forgotten
• It isn't like withdrawing an evening service because it isn't profitable and by doing so, you reduce the potential traffic on the daytime service by reducing journey opportunities - this is a wholesale withdrawal

As is said above, they won't have taken the decision lightly. They haven't gone to consultation probably because they know that they can't really do anything (e.g. diverts that demand extra resources, increased fares, an off peak reduction that actually doesn't achieve any real savings). So if they go down the consultation route, there is nothing for them to gain except accusations that they consulted but it was a cynical exercise and are still doing the same thing anyway.

 

[PaulMc7]

You've obviously never dealt with SPT - unless it's a 60+ card you'll have a hard time getting a card out of them without proper documentation… there's a lot of claims that go round about these cards being "far too easy" to obtain; yet, it's a claim that is rarely backed with evidence.

I had one until I was 12 because of my Aspergers Syndrome and I've seen more older people who don't have one than do. I've been on more than enough buses to see how easy it is for some people to get them. I've even heard people say they've just chanced it to get one and got given it

 

[PaulMc7]

If you think bad press doesn't last in people's heads think of the 4 then the X4. The X4 can be just as quiet as the X1 if not even quieter with sometimes completely empty runs into Glasgow and a lot of that was Knightswood losing the West end link and forcing people onto trains. This was clearly remembered by people and it's shown. I've used the X4 about 15/16 times. It's been busy once and that was at schooltime yet that's still here. The 4A being taken out of Kelvindale is another like that. The M4 and 94 haven't been massively busy and the M4 has had changes to its timetable because people got forced into train and car. As I've said plenty of times though loss makers should go but they've done nothing different with the X1 at all so how did they expect a sudden profit? Seen plenty of drivers baffled by the decision and they'd know what was being used on the bus that they're driving. Already seen plenty of comments regarding consultations too and plenty of people have said they'd have been happy if it happened. It's the same with the meetings with MSPs over it. Happy because they've tried to save it so consultation would have prevented as much bad blood plus if you harm customer relationships then ultimately you'll lose more than just those customers because info flies as fast as it does. You'll have family members of those people not use them and then friends and then it'll go onto to those people's friends and family and so on

 

[overthewater]

To be fair if all those 3500 only used the x1 at peak time we would still have the same problems.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be fair if all those 3500 only used the x1 at peak time we would still have the same problems.

Indeed but I was more along the lines of how many of the 3500 actually use the X1?

Put it another way and I posed the question yesterday.... consider how many passengers a day does it need to break even, remembering that most aren't attracting the full fare as they are season ticket holders or concessions. Compare that with the number who have signed the petition....

 

[PaulMc7]

Indeed but I was more along the lines of how many of the 3500 actually use the X1?

Put it another way and I posed the question yesterday.... consider how many passengers a day does it need to break even, remembering that most aren't attracting the full fare as they are season ticket holders or concessions. Compare that with the number who have signed the petition....

Would say about 400/500 who signed use it but most are peak time and would probably all have weeklys or monthlys at the very least and that's where the problem is

 

[PaulMc7]

Interesting to know that customer feedback etc actually does work sometimes. Aberdeen's changes have been altered for next month. More reason that consultation here will be a good thing if it ever happened

 

[Jordan Adam]

Interesting to know that customer feedback etc actually does work sometimes. Aberdeen's changes have been altered for next month. More reason that consultation here will be a good thing if it ever happened

The Aberdeen consultation has lead to nothing really other than the retention of a route on 1/3rd of it's current frequency.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would say about 400/500 who signed use it but most are peak time and would probably all have weeklys or monthlys at the very least and that's where the problem is

Interesting to know that customer feedback etc actually does work sometimes. Aberdeen's changes have been altered for next month. More reason that consultation here will be a good thing if it ever happened

Genuinely, I'm not being rude but is it that your condition means you're not getting this....

The consultation in Aberdeen was appropriate because there were things that COULD be done. There are options.

The X1 is LOSING MONEY - do you get that? Measures like diverting it via the Fort or reducing the off peak service won't change that. So the options that a consultation could bring aren't there! You will just further annoy the people affected.

I don't dispute that there could be 400-500 people but do the maths and work out the revenue that they provide vs. the cost of running the service and then you'll understand the problem. You've studied accountancy - it shouldn't take you long!

 

[PaulMc7]

Genuinely, I'm not being rude but is it that your condition means you're not getting this....

The consultation in Aberdeen was appropriate because there were things that COULD be done. There are options.

The X1 is LOSING MONEY - do you get that? Measures like diverting it via the Fort or reducing the off peak service won't change that. So the options that a consultation could bring aren't there! You will just further annoy the people affected.

I don't dispute that there could be 400-500 people but do the maths and work out the revenue that they provide vs. the cost of running the service and then you'll understand the problem. You've studied accountancy - it shouldn't take you long!

Don't be rude and it's the first thing you do is be rude. You don't get that they've done nothing to the X1 at all and you fail to understand what I've said about bad press etc. It does stick a lot longer than you think and it shows which one of us is Glasgow based that you think it doesn't. You've assumed that I don't think it's a loss maker when I've also said that constantly. If you don't try and change a service ever ofcourse nothing will change but I've said my piece so if you can't get that then that's not on me as I've explained it enough. Most people use passes and longer tickets too anyway so the way forward for First and increasing passenger numbers is by making them even more value for money than they already are and reducing singles slightly