First Greater Glasgow

[TheGrandWazoo]

I post in response more than anything and when I do have ideas etc it doesn't take me long to post those ideas. I don't spend anywhere near as much time on those ideas. I'm free a lot at the minute too so that's also a factor plus with service changes not too far away I would want to keep up to date with that. I'm definitely not an enthusiast though. Even with things like types of buses, VOSA etc. I barely knew what any of them were except the ones that say their type on them and with VOSA I discovered what it was through this forum. Never looked into it before at all

Also remember I found this site by accident and I don't have much experience of transport outside of First so naturally I'm going to post on what I use most. I've used Lothian like twice and First Scotland East a handful of times for Stirling and Falkirk but that's it

Still don't think you're "getting this"

You claim not to be an enthusiast and that you stumbled onto this site by accident. Appreciate that your knowledge may be limited to your local firm. Appreciate that you feel that you feel that you have ideas and it doesn't take long to then promulgate these ideas. Take all that on face value. However, the fact that you ARE on this site, that you DO have these ideas, that you post as extensively as you do (on average NINE times a day), indicates that you are much more an enthusiast than you care to admit. There's nothing wrong with that - it's not a criticism.

However, it does mean that when talking about new services and preferring buses to trains, these are ideas that are pre-disposed to the answer being the bus, rather than reflecting the question. It's something that isn't particular to yourself or to Glasgow. Just that I've lost count of how many times ideas are floated that comprise bus services competing with rail, or extensive new links being created. That might appeal to the enthusiastic bus user but to the average punter, not really and that's why they're not pursued.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think all of the X1 stuff lately shows how much the "average punter" cares tbh and sometimes that's more than we realise. I respond to comments because I never really ignore responses to me that's literally it. I wouldn't call anyone who spends around an hour between thinking and typing of responses an "enthusiast" tbh. I've used First for almost all of my life and even that's only possible because I was a baby when they first ran services here and because the train doesn't suit me. I'd love the buses to compete more with trains etc but more so other people don't lose their services, nothing to do with what I want or need.

I've only been on here for around 3 months. To me an enthusiast is someone who spends tons of time on something and looks passionately into it. If I was such an "enthusiast" I'd have been here far earlier and wouldn't have found this by accident. There's plenty of other things I spend more time on and that's why I'm not anywhere near as big an "enthusiast" as you believe.

Blogging, gaming, football and F1 are things I'm an "enthusiast" of and all take up far more of time than this does. First drag enthusiasm out of me more than anything

 

[Gingerbus1991]

EDIT:
Just for a quick moment, I would say that even as an enthusiast, it being a popular word here, it doesn't detract from seeing that private firms regardless we're cost cutting measure are born within a company, the top line is more important than people, as said before the X1 withdrawal will only mean chasing more away to the train or private car use, that is the moral of the story, you don't need to be an enthusiast to know or understand that, hence bus companies and the reputations they make for themselves.

The nonsense about cutting the pvr number is ridiculous as is think in that 5 extra buses sitting in a depot in the middle of the day is wasted money, given that a bus may sit at the depot spare only means it isn't wasting fuel driving fresh air around.

Additionally we see at the moment that it's all cuts cuts cuts, realistically we still don't know what future impact or changes glasgow City Council or government have in store and what impact that may have on capacity, its clear that having a central LEZ with only drive many around the suburbs instead of through the city centre, another big mistake if you were being logical enough.

Cutting the X1 should've be delayed in favour of the LEZ being completed.

A cost saving measure for the time being would've been to reduce the off peak service to an hourly operation, why not attempt that first..

 

[PaulMc7]

Just for a quick moment, I would say that even as an enthusiast, it being a popular word here, it doesn't detract from seeing that private firms regardless we're cost cutting measure are working from, the tip line is more important than people, as said before the X1 withdrawal will only mean chasing more away to the train or private car use, that is the moral of the story, you don't need to be an enthusiast to know that, hence bus companies and the reputations they make for themselves.

100% agree with this. It doesn't take longer than a 30 second look at even their Twitter to realise they're not good in terms of customer service etc. It'll turn a lot more away immediately and there's everything else on top of that. Reputation, reliability etc. It's not just the X1 customers that will end up with Scotrail, there will be others too.

Cutting the 19A when Robroyston train station opens very soon too. Another handing of customers to scotrail

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Noticed one of Overtown’s 240 branded E200MMCs has been repainted into the new livery and has retained its blue front. They look so much better like this. The Olympia livery doesn’t suit the coloured fronts. Hopefully they start to do this with the Xpress buses and I wonder if they’ll do it with the B7RLEs on the 9. Hopefully they just start repainting them into the urban livery and new buses take over the 9.

 

[Aidan1]

Noticed one of Overtown’s 240 branded E200MMCs has been repainted into the new livery and has retained its blue front. They look so much better like this. The Olympia livery doesn’t suit the coloured fronts. Hopefully they start to do this with the Xpress buses and I wonder if they’ll do it with the B7RLEs on the 9. Hopefully they just start repainting them into the urban livery and new buses take over the 9.

67047 is the bus in question, it’s Blantyre based and yes it looks a lot more fresh. Overtown Enviro 67056 was a away a few weeks ago for repairs following a collision but still retained its Olympia colours.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

EDIT:
Just for a quick moment, I would say that even as an enthusiast, it being a popular word here, it doesn't detract from seeing that private firms regardless we're cost cutting measure are born within a company, the top line is more important than people, as said before the X1 withdrawal will only mean chasing more away to the train or private car use, that is the moral of the story, you don't need to be an enthusiast to know or understand that, hence bus companies and the reputations they make for themselves.

The nonsense about cutting the pvr number is ridiculous as is think in that 5 extra buses sitting in a depot in the middle of the day is wasted money, given that a bus may sit at the depot spare only means it isn't wasting fuel driving fresh air around.

Additionally we see at the moment that it's all cuts cuts cuts, realistically we still don't know what future impact or changes glasgow City Council or government have in store and what impact that may have on capacity, its clear that having a central LEZ with only drive many around the suburbs instead of through the city centre, another big mistake if you were being logical enough.

Cutting the X1 should've be delayed in favour of the LEZ being completed.

A cost saving measure for the time being would've been to reduce the off peak service to an hourly operation, why not attempt that first..

Being an enthusiast is not a bad thing. However, it can be that those who display a rather keen interest, more than the average punter, may not be typical of the travelling public. Hence why I contend that by posting on an internet bus forum, especially extensively, might indicate an atypical view of life. Also, it's fair to say that many bus company managers ARE enthusiasts; James Freeman at First West of England is notable for being a leading light in the bus preservation movement. However, it doesn't get away from having to make tough commercial decisions and indeed, JF has just withdrawn two quite high profile routes in the Bristol area. The Stagecoach Scotland East MD similarly is a long term enthusiast. However, their first priority is to run a business profitably. Some bus company managers are doubtless heartless egotists and sociopaths ruled only by the bottom line. Most of them are probably acutely aware of treading the line between generating profit and meeting targets whilst ensuring the longer term viability of the business.

People on this board don't know the finances of the X1. The amount of data that bus companies are able to gain is much more than ever before so if it's not making money, then they've probably got a fair idea of that and the travelling patterns. That might have informed their decision. Unfortunately, some full buses at peak isn't probably enough to make the £500 a day (ish) that a bus needs to make to pay its way.

One interesting note... The First withdrawals currently being enacted are in Scotland, Bristol, Potteries and Worcester. It's not a blanket across every OpCo so perhaps it points to something more local rather than a high level edict? Just a thought.

 

[Strathclyder]

Noticed one of Overtown’s 240 branded E200MMCs has been repainted into the new livery and has retained its blue front. They look so much better like this. The Olympia livery doesn’t suit the coloured fronts. Hopefully they start to do this with the Xpress buses and I wonder if they’ll do it with the B7RLEs on the 9. Hopefully they just start repainting them into the urban livery and new buses take over the 9.

They already have. E400MMC 33984 (SN65 OFZ) has gained the new/simplified livery, but all that remains of the 'First Xpress' branding is the section around the destination display, much like the numerous E300s that have gained this livery:

 

[JumpinTrainz]

They already have. E400MMC 33984 (SN65 OFZ) has gained the new/simplified livery, but all that remains of the 'First Xpress' branding is the section around the destination display, much like the numerous E300s that have gained this livery:

Oh thanks for the photo I hadn’t even noticed an E400MMC had been done yet! The new livery has really grown on me and looks very smart. They seem to be redoing the wheels which is great they look really shiny now. I wonder if they’re planning to redo the express livery with full gold front this time. It would certainly look a lot better.

I would have thought the one would have got a coloured front. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Oh thanks for the photo I hadn’t even noticed an E400MMC had been done yet! The new livery has really grown on me and looks very smart. They seem to be redoing the wheels which is great they look really shiny now. I wonder if they’re planning to redo the express livery with full gold front this time. It would certainly look a lot better.

I would have thought the one would have got a coloured front. Time will tell I guess.

I wish they would paint the hubs lilac as well, but Refurbed wheels do add that extra polish!

 

[Scotrail314209]

I’ve noticed there are a lot of fully dark blue buses around Glasgow today, but they aren’t on the express as they are completely debranded. Why are they like that?

 

[PaulMc7]

I’ve noticed there are a lot of fully dark blue buses around Glasgow today, but they aren’t on the express as they are completely debranded. Why are they like that?

Probably just transfers that they've not got around to repainting yet. Seen one on the 4 earlier tonight

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I’ve noticed there are a lot of fully dark blue buses around Glasgow today, but they aren’t on the express as they are completely debranded. Why are they like that?

These buses have been transferred from First West Lothian and are awaiting repaint.

I get the feeling that First aren’t necessarily looking to have strict structure in terms of what buses are on which routes. Caledonia depot in particular seems to throw out any bus on any route now. I thought the ex-FSE E400MMCs would have been good on the 60/60A but I’ve spotted them on other routes. Same with the refurbished B9TLs.

 

[PaulMc7]

These buses have been transferred from First West Lothian and are awaiting repaint.

I get the feeling that First aren’t necessarily looking to have strict structure in terms of what buses are on which routes. Caledonia depot in particular seems to throw out any bus on any route now. I thought the ex-FSE E400MMCs would have been good on the 60/60A but I’ve spotted them on other routes. Same with the refurbished B9TLs.

Noticed a lot of different buses on different routes tbh of late. The transferred E400MMCs have been on the X85/X87 too, seen a 65 branded bus on a 2 earlier, there's been a 9 branded bus on 1s, the 5 has been getting more single deckers, the 8 and 90 have been getting more double deckers etc. Tbh I'm all for having a mix of everything on services that aren't branded. Gives passengers a taste of everything

 

[Bus Lightyear]

These buses have been transferred from First West Lothian and are awaiting repaint.

I get the feeling that First aren’t necessarily looking to have strict structure in terms of what buses are on which routes. Caledonia depot in particular seems to throw out any bus on any route now. I thought the ex-FSE E400MMCs would have been good on the 60/60A but I’ve spotted them on other routes. Same with the refurbished B9TLs.

I've only seen them on the 41, 60-60A. Maybe I'm being ignorant but it looks like they are doing a decent job of keeping the branded buses on the routes they're supposed to be on other than seeing yellow 75s on the X7 M&Ds express.

 

[overthewater]

Being an enthusiast is not a bad thing. However, it can be that those who display a rather keen interest, more than the average punter, may not be typical of the travelling public. Hence why I contend that by posting on an internet bus forum, especially extensively, might indicate an atypical view of life. Also, it's fair to say that many bus company managers ARE enthusiasts; James Freeman at First West of England is notable for being a leading light in the bus preservation movement. However, it doesn't get away from having to make tough commercial decisions and indeed, JF has just withdrawn two quite high profile routes in the Bristol area. The Stagecoach Scotland East MD similarly is a long term enthusiast. However, their first priority is to run a business profitably. Some bus company managers are doubtless heartless egotists and sociopaths ruled only by the bottom line. Most of them are probably acutely aware of treading the line between generating profit and meeting targets whilst ensuring the longer term viability of the business.

People on this board don't know the finances of the X1. The amount of data that bus companies are able to gain is much more than ever before so if it's not making money, then they've probably got a fair idea of that and the travelling patterns. That might have informed their decision. Unfortunately, some full buses at peak isn't probably enough to make the £500 a day (ish) that a bus needs to make to pay its way.

One interesting note... The First withdrawals currently being enacted are in Scotland, Bristol, Potteries and Worcester. It's not a blanket across every OpCo so perhaps it points to something more local rather than a high level edict? Just a thought.

You mean Douglas R the current Stagecoach Scotland East MD? of course Andrew Javis is also enthusiast, however he seems to end up with the awful jobs of imposing cuts. Mind you Mark Cutlock, sorry whitelock is neither a enthusiast he cleary is heartless egotists and sociopaths ruled only by the bottom line.

We know what's mainly causing the cuts in Scotland, Glasgow - Lez, FSE- bus war, Aberdeen - downturn in oil.

With the X1, the problem is it's First and we all know First have not been on the level before. Its not our fault we have raised eye of distrust. It's been well recorded the old ticket machine information is not correct and certain ideas have been ruled by cost cutting and nothing else. Mcgill X23 is an awful explame, You can't complain the service doesn't pay then happily go and buy brand new smaller stock, for the route. I still think LEZ is complete red hearing in both case, since buses were newer par say.

Buses are mainly empty going into hamilton and even to the local estates in the morning, heck the first six buses in the morning do not come back as X1.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You mean Douglas R the current Stagecoach Scotland East MD? of course Andrew Javis is also enthusiast, however he seems to end up with the awful jobs of imposing cuts. Mind you Mark Cutlock, sorry whitelock is neither a enthusiast he cleary is heartless egotists and sociopaths ruled only by the bottom line.

We know what's mainly causing the cuts in Scotland, Glasgow - Lez, FSE- bus war, Aberdeen - downturn in oil.

With the X1, the problem is it's First and we all know First have not been on the level before. Its not our fault we have raised eye of distrust. It's been well recorded the old ticket machine information is not correct and certain ideas have been ruled by cost cutting and nothing else. Mcgill X23 is an awful explame, You can't complain the service doesn't pay then happily go and buy brand new smaller stock, for the route. I still think LEZ is complete red hearing in both case, since buses were newer par say.

Buses are mainly empty going into hamilton and even to the local estates in the morning, heck the first six buses in the morning do not come back as X1.

Just because an MD isn’t an enthusiast doesn’t mean they’re a sociopath either.

If data is wrong, then that’s a different matter but it’s a lot more comprehensive than it has ever been. What’s the alternative - guess where you’re losing and making money?

Also, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to make incorrect decisions despite the information. We saying that none of us have, despite having intelligence and information, made a mistake? Or made a decision at a time that subsequently looked stupid because of changes elsewhere? If that were the case, no one would get divorced

Andrew Jarvis is a life long bus man. His dad was before him. He’s no fool and is having to cope with a raft of challenges. Some are FG specific (e.g. capital availability), some are simply business - all firms have financial targets whether it’s profit or ROI. Some are local (e.g. Aberdeen economy or Glasgow LEZ) and are route specific.

I’ve said it ad nauseum - First Bus didn’t get into its mess in a year and to extricate itself was going to take longer and it was less well prepared to cope with the wider industry challenges.

Hopefully, its split from FG will remove some constraints that shackle it.

PS - Douglas Robertson was who I was referring to.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I've only seen them on the 41, 60-60A. Maybe I'm being ignorant but it looks like they are doing a decent job of keeping the branded buses on the routes they're supposed to be on other than seeing yellow 75s on the X7 M&Ds express.

I wasn’t referring to the branded stock I meant the unbranded buses.

Going back a few years ago when branding wasn’t really a thing in Glasgow, you always knew which bus you would get on a route. The E400s stayed on the 6, the E500s were either on the 4, 5 or 75 and you wouldn’t really see them elsewhere. The B9TLs tended to stick to routes like the 57, 38 etc. Compare that to nowadays (and of course merging depots has assisted in this) but the B9TLs could turn up on a 57 one day, an 87 the next and the 61 the following day. There’s no real sense of keeping all the B9TLs in ex-Parkhead routes and the E400MMCs to Kirky routes.

Not saying it’s a bad thing but it’s just interesting how things have changed over the years.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think personally everyone makes mistakes but have any of us made mistakes that impact things the way First's can? The problem in Glasgow is that there's a lot of people who use the bus because they have to and not because they want to and that's what First need to try and change and sadly cuts, cuts and more cuts isn't the way to do that. The thing I'd have done with the X1 is either cut the off peak to hourly meaning 1 bus each way but it would be a tighter schedule granted the journey length as it is isn't far off of an hour or actually consult customers first to get an idea of what would actually suit them. That alone would have built up a bit of trust and possibly brought more customers to it yet First continue to make cuts out of the blue with no actual information given except excuses that don't always add up

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think personally everyone makes mistakes but have any of us made mistakes that impact things the way First's can? The problem in Glasgow is that there's a lot of people who use the bus because they have to and not because they want to and that's what First need to try and change and sadly cuts, cuts and more cuts isn't the way to do that. The thing I'd have done with the X1 is either cut the off peak to hourly meaning 1 bus each way but it would be a tighter schedule granted the journey length as it is isn't far off of an hour or actually consult customers first to get an idea of what would actually suit them. That alone would have built up a bit of trust and possibly brought more customers to it yet First continue to make cuts out of the blue with no actual information given except excuses that don't always add up

I thought you had studied and worked in accountancy and business? Wouldn't the issue be that the fixed cost element isn't being covered rather than the variable?

Also, what "actual information" are you expecting First to provide? Another way to look at it is this.... let's accept that the X1 IS popular and IS paying its way, covering its fixed and variable costs (plus profit) as well as providing a contribution to fixed overheads. Why would they then withdraw it?

 

[PaulMc7]

I thought you had studied and worked in accountancy and business? Wouldn't the issue be that the fixed cost element isn't being covered rather than the variable?

Also, what "actual information" are you expecting First to provide? Another way to look at it is this.... let's accept that the X1 IS popular and IS paying its way, covering its fixed and variable costs (plus profit) as well as providing a contribution to fixed overheads. Why would they then withdraw it?

It going hourly would save money though and if you can tailor a service to what people want or at least take on board what your customers say then it's a good thing still and better than what First done. The customer feedback might not be beneficial to execute but if you don't even take their feelings on board then you create a lot of ill feeling. I'd expect better than blaming the M74 congestion when the part of the M74 that they use is rarely busy outside of peaks and funnily enough the bus is mobbed at peaks which cancels out the fact that it is even a factor to customers when clearly they just want to get from A to B and now a lot of people are left without a quicker option to work/college/uni. To get from say Hillhouse to Glasgow using non express services you're talking close to a 2 hour journey even if both buses are on time and we know that's highly unlikely. That's just asking to lose customers and therefore even more profit so by cost cutting they're just ending up with less revenue too because First's cuts are based on people using their other services but this won't be the case when the X1 goes

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It going hourly would save money though and if you can tailor a service to what people want or at least take on board what your customers say then it's a good thing still and better than what First done. The customer feedback might not be beneficial to execute but if you don't even take their feelings on board then you create a lot of ill feeling. I'd expect better than blaming the M74 congestion when the part of the M74 that they use is rarely busy outside of peaks and funnily enough the bus is mobbed at peaks which cancels out the fact that it is even a factor to customers when clearly they just want to get from A to B and now a lot of people are left without a quicker option to work/college/uni. To get from say Hillhouse to Glasgow using non express services you're talking close to a 2 hour journey even if both buses are on time and we know that's highly unlikely. That's just asking to lose customers and therefore even more profit so by cost cutting they're just ending up with less revenue too because First's cuts are based on people using their other services but this won't be the case when the X1 goes

Surely with your accountancy experience, you recognise that you're not affecting the fixed costs as you're not saving vehicles nor drivers? Going hourly at peak doesn't escape that. Also, you realise that buses need to make about £35/hour to pay their way? I'm not certain that you understand transport economics.

Also, take your point on the consultation but then again, if you do that but fundamentally it can't change anything, then what do you do? Withdraw it anyway and then be accused of ignoring views.

 

[PaulMc7]

Surely with your accountancy experience, you recognise that you're not affecting the fixed costs as you're not saving vehicles nor drivers? Going hourly at peak doesn't escape that. Also, you realise that buses need to make about £35/hour to pay their way? I'm not certain that you understand transport economics.

Also, take your point on the consultation but then again, if you do that but fundamentally it can't change anything, then what do you do? Withdraw it anyway and then be accused of ignoring views.

So going by ticket prices from Hamilton to Glasgow all you need is 7 paying customers an hour tough but not impossible. Find the best option possible and as I say why go based on bold predictions that people will use your other services? I'm all for cuts if they will give customers an option that still works the same for them but to more than double their journey time isn't going to help anything and only hurt First more than the cuts will help them. Cutting off peaks to 1 an hour also saves 2 buses too therefore fuel saved and buses not used. More people would use the buses if they weren't constantly cut out of nowhere. Could even have gave a simple statement regarding it.

Something like "we have concerns regarding our X1 service as it isn't meeting costs. We will have to cut it in 3/6 months if this pattern continues." This would give customers an insight into how things work and might also make them realise we need to use this or we lose it. There's been cuts because of customer complacency and the mindset of "we will never lose this" and it's messed things up a lot. If you can help customers understand your business and build customer relationships then you'll do better and people will use your services. Simple as that

Use Stagecoach as the main example. Planned changes for December yet have been wanting customer feedback for most of this month regarding them. Mcgills even to an extent at times have had meetings with customers to get feedback and First do it in other areas so why not with Glasgow? They're only harming themselves by not doing it

 

[route101]

I wasn’t referring to the branded stock I meant the unbranded buses.

Going back a few years ago when branding wasn’t really a thing in Glasgow, you always knew which bus you would get on a route. The E400s stayed on the 6, the E500s were either on the 4, 5 or 75 and you wouldn’t really see them elsewhere. The B9TLs tended to stick to routes like the 57, 38 etc. Compare that to nowadays (and of course merging depots has assisted in this) but the B9TLs could turn up on a 57 one day, an 87 the next and the 61 the following day. There’s no real sense of keeping all the B9TLs in ex-Parkhead routes and the E400MMCs to Kirky routes.

Not saying it’s a bad thing but it’s just interesting how things have changed over the years.

Well it caley it makes sense to merge all the buses . The drivers are a different story . 3 different groups of them

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So going by ticket prices from Hamilton to Glasgow all you need is 7 paying customers an hour tough but not impossible.

Hmmm.... so not factoring in the issue that there is a pronounced flow rather than a counter cyclical, nor the impact of concessionary passes? I'll leave it with you

 

[PaulMc7]

Hmmm.... so not factoring in the issue that there is a pronounced flow rather than a counter cyclical, nor the impact of concessionary passes? I'll leave it with you

I've said it's tough because of things like that. All is evident to see though that First's "cut,cut,cut" approach is damaging to passenger numbers. There's plenty of other factors too but when there's that approach coupled with 3 price increases in a year in a half then things will get worse and turn people away. It doesn't take a genius to work that out either. There's rarely a positive response to anything they tweet etc and granted that Glasgow is populated with moaners it's still very concerning

 

[tbtc]

What's the history of the X1? I don't remember it from Central Scottish/ Kelvin Central days, but then there was a limit to how many timetables I could justify asking for at Buchanan back in those black and white days (when you couldn't just google everything)... was it introduced by First?

The nonsense about cutting the pvr number is ridiculous as is think in that 5 extra buses sitting in a depot in the middle of the day is wasted money, given that a bus may sit at the depot spare only means it isn't wasting fuel driving fresh air around

It's fuel, it's driver wages, it's a number of things - if your service is only busy for an hour in the morning and an hour at tea time then how does it cover those other costs?

100% agree with this. It doesn't take longer than a 30 second look at even their Twitter to realise they're not good in terms of customer service etc

People go on Twitter to complain. That's what it is - it's not a barometer of how happy the Great British Public are.

You may thank your driver as you get off the bus but you may have also sent a couple of angry tweets to the bus company whilst stood waiting on the late running vehicle to turn up.

Twitter is about as representative of the UK as those dreadful media vox-pops, when they go round some provincial town centre during office hours and find the only people are mothers pushing buggies/ angry pensioners and try to present them as being "typical voters".

Cutting the 19A when Robroyston train station opens very soon too. Another handing of customers to scotrail

...or it could be that First know that enough people will prefer the train (with it's predictable journey times etc) than the bus and so are cutting this route rather than wasting money fighting for it and making necessary cuts elsewhere?

One interesting note... The First withdrawals currently being enacted are in Scotland, Bristol, Potteries and Worcester. It's not a blanket across every OpCo so perhaps it points to something more local rather than a high level edict? Just a thought.

We've also had our share of cuts in South Yorkshire last month (masked by the schools going back, so some of the routes that were "temporarily" cut over the quieter summer months didn't go back to their "busier" timetables - e.g. the Chapletown - Herdings service went down from twelve minutes to fifteen, Wybourn and Hemsworth both went down from twelve to fifteen, Nether Edge went down from ten to fifteen minutes, the Hillsborough - Meadowhall service halved to just hourly... ), but I appreciate that this isn't a South Yorkshire thread.

Mark Cutlock, sorry whitelock is neither a enthusiast he cleary is heartless egotists and sociopaths ruled only by the bottom line

One thing I'll never understand is the bus enthusiasts who treat it like football fans, getting all emotional... maybe the guy just happens to work for a company expecting a certain rate of return in a volatile market and can't afford to take a Ten Year Plan approach, so has to make some short term cuts... rather than assuming that he enjoys making people redundant?

Buses are mainly empty going into hamilton and even to the local estates in the morning, heck the first six buses in the morning do not come back as X1

...because there's not much demand for a contra-peak service from Glasgow *to* Hamilton, aye.

So going by ticket prices from Hamilton to Glasgow all you need is 7 paying customers an hour tough but not impossible

Assuming that your driver is happy to get to Glasgow and clock-off for eight hours until it's time for a commuter express back to Hamilton?

A peak service like the X1 will be busy for a handful of journeys a day but that requires a broadly similar number of contra-peak journeys and a lot of resources being tied up during the daytime too... that one busy journey in the morning can't carry the other trips.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've said it's tough because of things like that. All is evident to see though that First's "cut,cut,cut" approach is damaging to passenger numbers. There's plenty of other factors too but when there's that approach coupled with 3 price increases in a year in a half then things will get worse and turn people away. It doesn't take a genius to work that out either. There's rarely a positive response to anything they tweet etc and granted that Glasgow is populated with moaners it's still very concerning

You didn't factor that in.... you didn't mention it. Put in another way cos you don't have to be a genius to work it out (obvs) - how many passengers a day do you need to make it viable?

And if you're going on tweets, what on earth do you expect? I'd venture that few people tweet positively to firms; that's human nature (and that's not to excuse poor service etc)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Assuming that your driver is happy to get to Glasgow and clock-off for eight hours until it's time for a commuter express back to Hamilton?

A peak service like the X1 will be busy for a handful of journeys a day but that requires a broadly similar number of contra-peak journeys and a lot of resources being tied up during the daytime too... that one busy journey in the morning can't carry the other trips.

At least you get it

Essentially, you have some busy trips in the peak but only one way. I'd venture that even in the mid morning, it's a pronounced "to Glasgow" flow so actually those journeys need to be proportionately higher loaded. And in the off peak, who's gonna be using them.... concessionary passes. So you're only getting 40-50% of the full fare so you need many more of them.

And as you rightly say, those few peak journeys (which will have full fare payers but at discounted season ticket rates) can't sustain the rest and parking up half the fleet during the day means you save the fuel, not the vehicle or driver cost. Doesn't take a genius to work that out

ps I'd forgotten about the "hidden" SY cuts in that the summer reductions weren't reversed for the autumn

 

[PaulMc7]

The problem the X1 has is that there are other buses that parts of the Hamilton section, therefore, take customers away from it. It used to go to Hillhouse all the time at one point, forget when that was tbh. Even with the 19A it could easily just have been cut down to Robroyston Asda and made hourly. Can't imagine that X2 is going to do well at all plus it just takes away from Royston customers who use it to Robroyston. Would any of us realistically use the 19 to then get an 8 which is fairly unreliable a lot of the time and doesn't even run that late? Last one each way is just after 6 pm with a couple of 8A workings. It's easy to prefer train in Robroyston considering that they've had shockingly bad buses for years even before a train station was even discussed. Another difference between the 2 cuts is that at least Robroyston will actually have a quicker bus into Glasgow, Hamilton travel into Glasgow doubles as a bare minimum. If they could replace the 19A with an hourly express why is it so hard to not try an hourly service with the X1 or as others have suggested too route it through the Fort? Would give an option First customers haven't had before between Hamilton and Glasgow Fort and also an express bus between Glasgow and Glasgow Fort to add to it and considering the buses between City Centre and Glasgow Fort aren't rapid either it's another quicker option.

This is where the problem lies too for First keeping customers. Show potential customers that you are trying something different and get feedback and you may keep them. If First could make passengers believe that they matter and profit isn't the only thing then we would probably see higher passenger numbers.

Use the 1s as an example of this. The best piece of innovation First have probably had in years and all it took to do it was a bit of forward thinking. Cutting without trying to give something different is pretty backwards and I will be one of the first people to give First credit when it's due but the X1 is a pretty damaging cut and isn't going to benefit their profits at all. Last thing I really want to say on the matter tbh and I've considered everything so nothing left for me to say on the matter.