First Great Western

[Zoe]

However when you cram in seats, as I said before, not only do you put off leisure passengers (most of the time these vehicles are in use they won't be wedged) but many commuters will choose to stand instead of sitting in crammed in seats, as I witnessed myself last night and on many other occasions.

To be fair though this is not just a FGW issue. I know of people that would have used a BR/Virgin HST or loco hauled set for a cross country journey but now go by air rather than go on a Voyager.

 

[Z12XE]

1. When they took over local services from Wessex Trains, National Express had run down the franchise so badly, not refurbished stock, and spent no money, that it was in something of a mess. FGW took all the flak. But huge credit to them, they dealt with the problems, even issued a letter of apology to all travellers. And now all is (fairly) well.

Surely the big problemes problem which came about at the start of the Greater Western franchise was the new timetable which was specified by the SRA that saw a fair chunk of services on the local lines being cut out?

 

[yorkie]

To be fair though this is not just a FGW issue. I know of people that would have used a BR/Virgin HST or loco hauled set for a cross country journey but now go by air rather than go on a Voyager.

You're right, but it's particularly bad on FGW. But some new trains do have a nice ambience, so it can be done.

 

[Mojo]

The seats are not crammed in though; there is more legroom than before and also the tables on airline seats are actually able to accommodate laptops (even my widescreen laptop fits on). They are much more pleasant to travel in than previously.

I think if anything would put off leisure travellers it is not being able to get a reasonably priced ticket or crowding. I'd say most people travelling are individuals or in groups of 2. Even a group of 4 could sit and comfortably across an aisle. My experience of trains that consist almost entirely of tables (such as some Mk2 layouts) is that people take up 1 seat on tables each, meaning that groups boarding at later stations still have to split themselves up.

 

[yorkie]

Chiltern do it on all Marylebone-Kidderminster etc trains

Yes. You can probably get around twice as many seats in a high density standard HST coach compared to a First Class coach. But FC passengers may pay two or three times the fare, in some cases (Reading-London return £73 at any time in First class. In Standard this ranges from £15 off peak to £34.30 peak).

So if it was just about cramming passengers in, FC would be withdrawn. But it's also about revenue, and providing the service people want, and getting the right balance.
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The seats are not crammed in though; there is more legroom than before and also the tables on airline seats are actually able to accommodate laptops (even my widescreen laptop fits on). They are much more pleasant to travel in than previously.

I rarely go on them but I don't recall there being much legroom, except in 'priority seats' which are the ones I always am for (and I guess you do too!)

I think if anything would put off leisure travellers it is not being able to get a reasonably priced ticket or crowding. I'd say most people travelling are individuals or in groups of 2. Even a group of 4 could sit and comfortably across an aisle. My experience of trains that consist almost entirely of tables (such as some Mk2 layouts) is that people take up 1 seat on tables each, meaning that groups boarding at later stations still have to split themselves up.

Sitting 4 across is not good for a group, you can't have a conversation like that. I am not suggesting almost entirely tables because, as you say this causes problems. The right balance would be the TPE 185 environment.

 

[Greenback]

Some solo travellers prefer tables not just so they can monopolise it for themselves, but because it does feel less claustrophobic and cramped than the airline seats.

I don't like the airline seats myself, but I think as the number of tables is so limited, they should be left for people in small groups. As there is usually just oone or two of us, we always go for airline seats.

Another drawback of the high seat backs is that youcan't see if a seat is taken until you are right on top of it!

FGW have improved a lot in the last few years. But there are still a lot of services that are overcrowded, as in many parts of the country, so they are not unique in that. Their customer panel idea is good, but I'm less impressed by the PF schemes they have introduced!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Some solo travellers prefer tables not just so they can monopolise it for themselves, but because it does feel less claustrophobic and cramped than the airline seats.

I don't like the airline seats myself, but I think as the number of tables is so limited, they should be left for people in small groups. As there is usually just oone or two of us, we always go for airline seats.

Another drawback of the high seat backs is that youcan't see if a seat is taken until you are right on top of it!

FGW have improved a lot in the last few years. But there are still a lot of services that are overcrowded, as in many parts of the country, so they are not unique in that. Their customer panel idea is good, but I'm less impressed by the PF schemes they have introduced!

I assume PF means Penalty Fare - why?

I do agree with you about the tombstone seats though

 

[222666]

It's interesting how their HSTs are holding up better than the turbos! Mind you, that's probably because of turbos having to stop in West London so much.

I was quite gutted when the 180s came off the Cotswolds however. It means HSTs are overkill for it when other times it's 'suburban' 165s. In the Cotswolds. Yuk

 

[Greenback]

I assume PF means Penalty Fare - why?

I do agree with you about the tombstone seats though

The seats are horrible, but just about bearable for up to three hours! Any more than that, and I've got to move!

Yes, I meant Penalty Fare, I am against Penalty Fares, and have made many rants about the in the Fares and Ticketing section! So I was gently poking fun at myself a bit!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's interesting how their HSTs are holding up better than the turbos! Mind you, that's probably because of turbos having to stop in West London so much.

I was quite gutted when the 180s came off the Cotswolds however. It means HSTs are overkill for it when other times it's 'suburban' 165s. In the Cotswolds. Yuk

Stood on reading Yesterday and there was a turbo working a Padd-Gt Malvern train. But there was a trolley at least

 

[Ivo]

There is a lot wrong with the Great Western. But there isn't nearly as much wrong with First Great Western as there could be. I for like the HST interiors (apart from the poor alignments, and that my legs keep banging on table legs when someone is sitting opposite!). On the other hand, the Turbos are probably my second least favourite "family" (no prizes for guessing which "family" pips them), but - as with the Pacers (I just answered it!) - this isn't their fault.

FGW *were* hopeless. I remember having a Greenford train cancelled once because it was stuck behind a freight train. It's a common freight route! It's signalled to allow consecutive trains in the same direction! That is no excuse! Now, though, only some of their staff and units are a bit on the poor side. The units there is little they can do about; the staff form my only real complaint about FGW (besides the Pompey trains' lack of capacity/reliability!) - they are often impolite and do not always seem to understand even the basic of ticketing. My brother could serve at Bath Spa office better than some of the staff there, and he barely knows anything away from the LTS route!

 

[tbtc]

Yes. You can probably get around twice as many seats in a high density standard HST coach compared to a First Class coach. But FC passengers may pay two or three times the fare

Trouble is, First Class is mainly going to be busy on weekdays and only on certain trains on those weekdays. There's not the demand for that much First Class the rest of the time. So whilst a First Class seat may take up twice the space of a "standard" seat but bring in three times the revenue each time it's used, it's really not used anything like as frequently.

FGW have made the best they can with the resources available. I'm sure they'd like to have HST rakes made up with lots of tables for the Cornwall trains busy with families, and ones with lots of First Class for weekday rush hours and another rake with high density seating, but in the real world they've got a good compromise that seems to suit most people. No pleasing all people, obviously

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Trouble is, First Class is mainly going to be busy on weekdays and only on certain trains on those weekdays. There's not the demand for that much First Class the rest of the time. So whilst a First Class seat may take up twice the space of a "standard" seat but bring in three times the revenue each time it's used, it's really not used anything like as frequently.

FGW have made the best they can with the resources available. I'm sure they'd like to have HST rakes made up with lots of tables for the Cornwall trains busy with families, and ones with lots of First Class for weekday rush hours and another rake with high density seating, but in the real world they've got a good compromise that seems to suit most people. No pleasing all people, obviously

Speaking of first class and money, the weekend upgrade is something like (from paddington)

£5 - Slough, Reading
£10 - Didcot, Oxford
£15 - Swindon, Chippenham, Newbury, Westbury, Taunton
£20 - Tiverton-Plymouth, Bath, Bristol, Newport-Swansea
£25 - Cornish destinations & West Wales

That's quite alot bearing in mind VT is £15 flat for Euston-Glasgow with free Wi-Fi, but then again EC is £25 flat, but you get a hell of a load for your money.

But at least this takes up a bit of first and relieves standard at weekends

 

[Greenback]

I complained about the new upgrade xones last year and got the usual drivel about passenger feedback being positive - whereas it seemed to me that people just were not upgrading at weekends as much because of the fact that they perceived the new cost for longer journeys to be of less value than before.

Still, I wouldn't have expected FGW to admit that, adn why would they care as long as the revenue hadn't fallen, which I accept could be the case!

 

[Squaddie]

So can someone please tewll me, except for the overcrowding, and godawful seats, why do the public hate FGW?

Isn't that exactly why so many people hate FGW?

Personally, I simply won't travel with FGW unless I can plan several weeks in advance and get a reasonably-priced first-class Advance ticket. Their standard class is a disgrace, and I'd rather drive (or not go at all).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Isn't that exactly why so many people hate FGW?

Personally, I simply won't travel with FGW unless I can plan several weeks in advance and get a reasonably-priced first-class Advance ticket. Their standard class is a disgrace, and I'd rather drive (or not go at all).

Or stand up wigth your head by the window

 

[Ivo]

Could someone explain to me how FGW seating is so appalling when even 158 seating, never mind HST seating, is on a par with or even better than several other operators' trains' (especially NXEA 321s) FC accommodation?

 

[yorkie]

It's interesting how their HSTs are holding up better than the turbos! Mind you, that's probably because of turbos having to stop in West London so much.

Have Turbos gone through an extensive refurbishment?

FGW *were* hopeless. I remember having a Greenford train cancelled once because it was stuck behind a freight train. It's a common freight route! It's signalled to allow consecutive trains in the same direction! That is no excuse!

That's entirely down to Network Rail. FGW drivers cannot ignore signalling instructions, so you can't blame FGW for getting stuck behind a freight train.

FGW have made the best they can with the resources available. I'm sure they'd like to have HST rakes made up with lots of tables for the Cornwall trains busy with families, and ones with lots of First Class for weekday rush hours and another rake with high density seating, but in the real world they've got a good compromise that seems to suit most people. No pleasing all people, obviously

I agree they have to compromise, but they have gone too far one way. The 185s are a good compromise, as are most types of Desiro.

 

[Greenback]

It's a very subjective area. I prefer the ATWseating on 158's and 175's to FGW HST's and 158's. Strangely, I preferred the FGW 150's that we sampled on the Looe and St Ives branches, in terms of seating, to the other FGW seats I've had to sit in.

 

[Class 33]

Don't like the awful claustraphobic high back seats they have in their HST's now. That said they're still better than the even more awful Voyager seats.

I preferred it when the seating was like this.....

Why couldn't they have left them as they were?


I remember a few months ago on a train from Bristol Parkway-London Paddington. There was one woman about 50 odd who even though she had a reserved seat and there were plenty of other seats to choose from, she decided to stand up all the way for the duration of the 1 hour 30 minute journey! She obviously didn't like those seats!

 

[Greenback]

The lower seats make for a much lighter and airier feel. A small advantage of higher seats is the greater feeling of privacy, but I do think FGW's HST seats are far too high!

 

[Zoe]

Why couldn't they have left them as they were?

Health and safety. The IC70 seat is not crashworthy.

 

[222666]

Have Turbos gone through an extensive refurbishment?

I dunno, have they? The HSTs have, is kinda my point. Turbos in suburban areas often carry these oiks who like to etch things on windows, etc etc. They're good units, but if I lived in the Cotswolds I'd be a bit put off, theres a fair difference between a turbo & a HST, especially if you're heading to London on a first class ticket!

Clubmans would be superb on the Cotswolds, & perhaps outer Berkshire lines, but they belong to Chiltern.

 

[starrymarkb]

Health and safety. The IC70 seat is not crashworthy.

Yes, the IC70 has a tendency to splinter into shrapnel in a crash

 

[87031]

Used FGW a few times last year but whilst on a 1st clas ALR and have to say was impressed with the standard of the new refurbs as for standard acc it seems its all a case density than passenger enviroment. No doubt they could of come up with a better design in standard more like the ECML Hst or East Midlands sets. Considering 1st class is well worth it if your travelling between London-Cornwall as there are reasonably priced advance fares to be had £43 isnt too bad.

 

[TheWalrus]

Good frequencies? How about Pewsey-Padd? Didn't think so...

 

[tbtc]

Good frequencies? How about Pewsey-Padd? Didn't think so...

Not exactly a major flow, is it?

London to Cardiff/ Bristol/ Oxford/ Reading/ Swindon/ Plymouth/ Exeter/ Swansea/ Bath/ Slough, I grant you, but... :roll:

 

[TheWalrus]

Not exactly a major flow, is it?

London to Cardiff/ Bristol/ Oxford/ Reading/ Swindon/ Plymouth/ Exeter/ Swansea/ Bath/ Slough, I grant you, but... :roll:

I mean for the amount of pax it gets, 1tp3h is poor!

 

[MCR247]

How many passengers does it get?

 

[Zoe]

I mean for the amount of pax it gets, 1tp3h is poor!

The issue here is that it's not a very large town and gets an intercity service due to lack of local services. If every intercity service from Devon/Cornwall stopped at Pewsey it would slow down journey times.