First Great Western

[MidnightFlyer]

I was fortunate enough to be on the 1601 (from Newquay) Reading-Paddington yesterday, and was wondering, apart from the severe peak overcrowding, why does FGW's HST IC service get slated so much?: their trains are clean, the catering is excellent, they have a good timnetable, as well as serving holiday destinations from London in the Summer, and service frequencies are good.

Oh, and you can stick your head out of the window

So can someone please tewll me, except for the overcrowding, and godawful seats, why do the public hate FGW?

 

[welshdragon]

Must agree with you - on all counts!

From my (extensive) experience of FGW HST services, I really don't see an issue. The trains have had a good makeover, the only issue for me is the height of the seats on 2nd class (sorry - standard!) which means that you now feel hemmed in rather than having a wide vista down the coach/out of the windows. The catering is good too, although I cannot compare with other operators.

Overcrowding is an issue - especially on peak weekday services and busy weekend services - try and make sure you book a seat in advance if you can!

 

[sonic2009]

i dont hate fgw as much as i did, they just do things stupidly. i.e cheltenham race week, they put all resources in to running hst's from padd to chelt, but dont think about services from worcester/malvern, local bristol-gcr/cnm services. i was @ ashchurch once waiting for a service on raceweek to cheltenham, train turned up, full.! guard said sorry and said bus would be on it's way. didnt turn up, but this guard still let fgw employess on train! which annoyed a few passengers, why when a 153 was sat in glouceter, just add it on to a 158 to provide extra capacity?

 

[MCR247]

Comments like that really wind me up, well a 153 was in the siding etc well how do you know it was servicable?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

FGW are lucky in that from paddington, on the HSTs, you only have to alternate train calling points for Slough and Didcot, and trains call at Reading and Swindon, unlike the ECML who have places like Newark NG, Grantham and Retford, and the WCML with Watford Jn, Rugby and the TV stations to juggle. All GWML calling points seem compulsory - like Bristol Parkway, Bath and Chippenham, this makes the HST services really quick, seen as they travel through rurality through very quiet parts of the country
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Comments like that really wind me up, well a 153 was in the siding etc well how do you know it was servicable?

Ask it? . I actually meant to focus this Thread on the GWML IC services, but it can spread to all FGW stuff

 

[sonic2009]

Comments like that really wind me up, well a 153 was in the siding etc well how do you know it was servicable?

because it sits in gloucester until around 1730, and joins on to the 1702 WOF-SOUTHAMPTON CENTRAL SERVICE>

 

[Daimler]

I think FGW's reputation has improved considerably over the last couple of years - certainly, I have no reason to criticise them, and I use them fairly frequently. As you say, their trains are clean and frequent, and the timetable - at least for the journeys I make - appears to be well thought out.

I would even disagree with regard to the seats in standard class. Before I began to use them often, I thought they looked dreadful. Now, while I agree they don't make for a particularly pleasant atmosphere inside the carriage, they are - at least, in my opinion - extremely comfortable, with very generous legroom. And, as for their first class...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

because it sits in gloucester until around 1730, and joins on to the 1702 WOF-SOUTHAMPTON CENTRAL SERVICE>

I've never been on it, but doesn't the fact the its sits in Gloucester for half a day tell you something about how busy the service must be? No, me neither, just a case of getting them where they need to be etc

FGW's combined timetable for only £3.00. is a steal too - they even put headcodes in it

 

[Mojo]

Yes I think there service has improved massively in recent years, and the fact that all their trains have been refurbished (with the exception of the Arriva units, the unit on hire from LM and the partial-refurb on the Silverlink-liveried) makes for a much more pleasant travelling environment.

I know a lot of people object to the HST refurbishment of Standard class, however I find it much better than how it used to be and also think it's a good refurbishment in comparison to work done in similar coaching stock by other TOCs (with the exception of the WSMR Mk3s). And they have also been very clever in positioning the socket on airline seats in the middle so if you're sat in the aisle seat you don't have to trail your cables over the person sitting next to the plug, and ask them if they mind/if they will unplug for you/etc.

 

[mrcheek]

FGW get slated for 2 reasons.

1. When they took over local services from Wessex Trains, National Express had run down the franchise so badly, not refurbished stock, and spent no money, that it was in something of a mess. FGW took all the flak. But huge credit to them, they dealt with the problems, even issued a letter of apology to all travellers. And now all is (fairly) well.

2. Some people dont like the refurbishment of the HSTs. You see, theres a few people on this forum who used to enjoy the fact that before the refurb, you could get a table seat, and if you got there first, monopolise the table and all 4 seats around it even if you were travelling alone. Since the refurb, they cant do this anymore. The refurb has created more seats, and vastly more legroom for the majority of passengers (and the overwhelming majority of London travellers on FGW are alone or in pairs at most), so this apparently upsets some people here.

 

[Bittern]

This is one company I really want to travel with. I'd love to do a HST from Paddington to Penzance.

 

[sonic2009]

I've never been on it, but doesn't the fact the its sits in Gloucester for half a day tell you something about how busy the service must be? No, me neither, just a case of getting them where they need to be etc

FGW's combined timetable for only £3.00. is a steal too - they even put headcodes in it

i think they put it on the 1534 to WOF now,so it runs back as a 2 x 153 as the 1702 Wof to Southampton Central as i saw it @ cheltenham spa, on the way down to southampton central at 1741, it was a 2 x 153.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It would be nice to jump a HST from padd-Bristol or Penzance, they did actually create a second Cardiff-Padd HST an hour - or was that the previous franchise holder? As I've said before HSTs are sorted for journey times, you only need to stop at Reading and Swindon, then thunder on to Bristol or Cardiff, or Reading and then an hour + non-stop to Taunton or Exeter St D.
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Didn't the ex-MD hate having steam on her network - as in she would refuse any access for steam onto her network if she could?

 

[curly42]

1. When they took over local services from Wessex Trains, National Express had run down the franchise so badly, not refurbished stock, and spent no money, that it was in something of a mess. FGW took all the flak. But huge credit to them, they dealt with the problems, even issued a letter of apology to all travellers. And now all is (fairly) well.

Wow !!! :roll:

 

[yorkie]

F
2. Some people dont like the refurbishment of the HSTs. You see, theres a few people on this forum who used to enjoy the fact that before the refurb, you could get a table seat, and if you got there first, monopolise the table and all 4 seats around it even if you were travelling alone. Since the refurb, they cant do this anymore. The refurb has created more seats, and vastly more legroom for the majority of passengers (and the overwhelming majority of London travellers on FGW are alone or in pairs at most), so this apparently upsets some people here.

Monopolise the table?!

No, some people here have friends or family and travel in groups, and therefore appreciate a table so they can socialise.

The FGW HST interior is a disgrace compared to, for example, the (also First!) TPE 185 interior (but I believe that the interiors may have been designed before First had any input into it?).

 

[sonic2009]

Monopolise the table?!

No, some people here have friends or family and travel in groups, and therefore appreciate a table so they can socialise.

The FGW HST interior is a disgrace compared to, for example, the (also First!) TPE 185 interior (but I believe that the interiors may have been designed before First had any input into it?).

compared the to old interiors. what is total seating capacityy between these?

old style coaches
new style airline coaches.
new style with refurb buffet.

 

[tbtc]

FGW are a franchise which uses stock and paths about as efficiently as possible. Without building additional lines/ remodelling stations (which both cost ££££s), they have got as frequent a clockface service out of Paddington as possible with long trains (unlike the five coach ones you see on the MML/ ECML)

The only comment I'd make is that the "Greater Western" franchise (when it took over Thames/ Wessex) was mean to integrate the London and the "local" services. I'm not aware of any major improvements in that respect (or improvements that couldn't have been achieved with two separate TOCs co-operating), but am happy to be corrected.

But their HSTs have quieter engines and they don't have loads of tables lining up with windows, which are prime concerns amongst some enthusiasts

 

[yorkie]

FGW are a franchise which uses stock and paths about as efficiently as possible. Without building additional lines/ remodelling stations (which both cost ££££s), they have got as frequent a clockface service out of Paddington as possible with long trains (unlike the five coach ones you see on the MML/ ECML)

The irony is that FGW wanted to reduce some HSTs from 8 to 7 cars!

But their HSTs have quieter engines and they don't have loads of tables lining up with windows, which are prime concerns amongst some enthusiasts

Many passengers prefer seats that line up with windows, and many passengers travel in small groups who prefer tables.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The irony is that FGW wanted to reduce some HSTs from 8 to 7 cars!

Many passengers prefer seats that line up with windows, and many passengers travel in small groups who prefer tables.

And some like to stick heads out of the windows

 

[MCR247]

Many passengers prefer seats that line up with windows, and many passengers travel in small groups who prefer tables.

Many people prefer to sit down from London - Bristol/Exeter

 

[yorkie]

Many people prefer to sit down from London - Bristol/Exeter

But this is an InterCity service, it should not be intended to cram in as many seats as possible (why not go the whole hog and install 2+3 seating, for example?:roll. How many seats do you actually gain in a FGW refurb compared to a non-refurb? In my experience some passengers will choose to stand rather than sit in cramped conditions, for example there were a double figure number of standees on the 1909 King's Cross - Peterborough last night despite a double figure number of seats being available, indeed more seats free than standees.

 

[Zoe]

But this is an InterCity service, it should not be intended to cram in as many seats as possible

The FGW HSTs are also used for some Thames/Kennet commuter services so the capacity is needed here.

 

[yorkie]

Then why not abolish First Class, and install 2+3 seating?

Should TPE 185s be cramming people in like sardines throughout the journey because they get wedged between Leeds & Huddersfield at peak times?

 

[mrcheek]

Then why not abolish First Class, and install 2+3 seating?

Should TPE 185s be cramming people in like sardines throughout the journey because they get wedged between Leeds & Huddersfield at peak times?

because you would then place your bags and feet all over the place so you took up 6 seats by yourself?

 

[Aictos]

I've used FGW a few times and I've never had reason to have any complaints, the trains are reliable enough plus running a clockface timetable makes it easy to know what services are when, I get plenty of legroom commpared to others and the powerpoint is in the middle of the seats in front and not uder the window.

However apart from having a guard once in Devon doing his job very well and checking my passes every time he walked though and the power plugs in FC should be under the table, I can't really complain.

They've improved a great deal and I only hope FCC can do the same deapite some calling for the DfT to kick out FCC!!!

 

[Zoe]

Then why not abolish First Class, and install 2+3 seating?

The trains are required for both commuter and Bristol/Cardiff intercity services, no First Class on an intercity service would not be popular.

 

[yorkie]

because you would then place your bags and feet all over the place so you took up 6 seats by yourself?

No, I wouldn't. Would you?

The trains are required for both commuter and Bristol/Cardiff intercity services, no First Class on an intercity service would not be popular.

That's what I thought you'd say. But high density seating isn't popular either! Something has to give...

What's wrong with the TPE 185 interior, and why shouldn't FGW HSTs be like that?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The trains are required for both commuter and Bristol/Cardiff intercity services, no First Class on an intercity service would not be popular.

Chiltern do it on all Marylebone-Kidderminster etc trains

 

[starrymarkb]

But this is an InterCity service, it should not be intended to cram in as many seats as possible (why not go the whole hog and install 2+3 seating, for example?:roll. How many seats do you actually gain in a FGW refurb compared to a non-refurb? In my experience some passengers will choose to stand rather than sit in cramped conditions, for example there were a double figure number of standees on the 1909 King's Cross - Peterborough last night despite a double figure number of seats being available, indeed more seats free than standees.

Over a 2+8 HST the layout gives ~1 Extra coachworth of seats. I don't think FGW had much choice given that there was no stock forthcoming until IEP* and the HSTs combined with High Frequency timetables had lead to an explosion in passenger numbers. I find the new seats quite comfortable, better then the awful IC70s or Mallard seats.


*They were specifically prohibited from placing any stock orders under their franchise terms.

 

[yorkie]

I've not met many people who have said they like the FGW standard class seats! But seat preferences are subjective and there will be a range of views. But more people seem to dislike them than like them, in my experience.

It appears the original vehicles had 72 seats and high density is 84 seats, however given that you have first class (no increase I believe?), TGS and buffet cars, the overall number is probably going to be around 55 extra seats (a rough estimate), so maybe two-thirds of a coach.

However when you cram in seats, as I said before, not only do you put off leisure passengers (most of the time these vehicles are in use they won't be wedged) but many commuters will choose to stand instead of sitting in crammed in seats, as I witnessed myself last night and on many other occasions.

The difference in quality and ambience between standard class and first class on FGW is absolutely huge, possibly the widest gap in quality on any operator for decades?