FGW Franchise

[jimm]

I was reading in Modern Railways today about that Wabtec Mk3 refurbishing. If they are only to last 5 (?) years, I suppose retention toilets and electric doors would be asking too much. Yet those two changes are what are most needed.

Am I right that these are not yet fitted? Whenever I have been on an HST I have to go to the vestibule and close the windows left by people who last opened the doors, to stop the draughts. Over a year ago mind, so perhaps improved. I understood Chiltern had improved theirs.

Assuming the First Group order for the souped-up Class 800-type trains from Hitachi for the West Country is confirmed in June, all the HSTs will be gone from GW services by December 2018. Only if this order falls through and HSTs have to soldier on to Devon and Cornwall would there be any prospect of power doors and toilet retention tanks being fitted.

But in the case of the GW HSTs that are being taken over by Scotrail from 2017, they will be sent for a major overhaul, including the fitting of power doors and toilet tanks, before starting work north of the border.

 

[Ingleborough]

SPM is getting 108 Class 16x vehicles. I don't know the 165/166 split. The remainder stay at Reading. The Bristol 'Metro' services formed no part of the calculation for this franchise. Could end up being a mix of DMU/EMU combined with South Wales orders / cascade. The 16x fleet do not have the fuel range for current types of West diagrams so will remain on Bristol axis. That is an increase of 5 vehicles on the current SPM allocation. Looks like the 08s will go elsewhere or be scrapped. A road/rail battery shunter taking their places.

150/0, 150/1, 153 and 143 going 'off lease'.

All 150/2 and 158 will be Exeter based.

Exeter is getting a new, much larger purpose built DMU depot with more staff in Riverside Yard.

Penzance is expanding slightly.



Laira is contracting but staying open. SPM likewise. All HST work at SPM stops in 27 months. If AT300 does not get approved by DfT, 21 HSTs will need to be made PRM compliant. Given the AT300s do not come from taxpayer funds, approval is very likely.

Landore and OC are closing, but in the case of the latter Crossrail and North Pole Depots opening. In Landores case FGW is working with the Welsh Assembly to see if Landore could become a DMU depot for the Welsh franchise.
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Regarding making trains accessible a FGW 150/2 has emerged from the works with a new passenger information system (won't be activated yet) a new toilet module a new wheelchair ramp new door sounders and improved led lighting throughout oh and new flooring

I hear little of other operators undertaking such work in time for 2020 ie East Midlands Trains and Arriva Trains Wales.... Though ATW are refreshing some of their 150/2s which look quite smart. However Livery change remains slow... Sorry off topic

150219 has some extensive changes / mods below floor as well with new more powerful alternators which have fewer moving parts and a safer connecting shaft arrangement with the engine. Currently undergoing commissioning at SPM with FGW and Porterbrook engineers.

 

[mrmatt]

I do like the refreshing approach of FGW to acknowledge their new trains are part of the governments IEP (AT300s aside). Makes me dislike Virgin's "we're introducing new trains" PR rubbish even more!

 

[Rapidash]

All 150/2 and 158 will be Exeter based.

Exeter is getting a new, much larger purpose built DMU depot with more staff in Riverside Yard.

Blimey, sounds like its going to be getting busy around St Davids I wonder with the increase in traffic there that the derelict bay at Central will be reinstated for additional stabling?

 

[sprinterguy]

Am I right that these are not yet fitted?

Yes, only the Chiltern "silver trains" have had powered doors fitted. The great majority of the mark 3 fleet - and all the HST mark 3 fleet - retains slam doors.

 

[berneyarms]

I'm booked on the 11:20 Bristol-Oxford arriving at 12:52 on the 5th of April, so I'm pretty sure it's correct!

That's the diverted service due to the Reading and Thames Valley blockade at Easter.

I'm afraid it's just for that one weekend.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They tried Oxford-Bristol using DMUs ages ago, hardly anyone used it.

 

[PHILIPE]

That's the diverted service due to the Reading and Thames Valley blockade at Easter.

I'm afraid it's just for that one weekend.

Already posted - Post #282

 

[berneyarms]

Already posted - Post #282

Fair enough - but I think I'm entitled to reply to a reply of my own post!!

 

[jimm]

SPM is getting 108 Class 16x vehicles. I don't know the 165/166 split. The remainder stay at Reading. The Bristol 'Metro' services formed no part of the calculation for this franchise. Could end up being a mix of DMU/EMU combined with South Wales orders / cascade. The 16x fleet do not have the fuel range for current types of West diagrams so will remain on Bristol axis. That is an increase of 5 vehicles on the current SPM allocation. Looks like the 08s will go elsewhere or be scrapped. A road/rail battery shunter taking their places.

Clarence Yard said in post 268 on page 18 that Reading would keep 8 or 9 166s and 8 or 9 two-car 165s, so would match up with your figure for the Bristol allocation - giving Bristol 12 166s, all 17 of the three-car 165/1s and 11 two-car 165/1s, though that makes 109 coaches in total but near enough.

 

[thelongestroad]

The 16x fleet do not have the fuel range for current types of West diagrams so will remain on Bristol axis.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "remain on Bristol axis" but as you're aware lots of sets outstable, be it at Westbury or Weymouth or wherever where refuelling isn't available. Is the range significantly different to a 150/158? A big shake up of through trains & diagrams then?

 

[Essexman]

Will FGW be able to keep the restaurants in these new trains?

 

[Rich McLean]

Will FGW be able to keep the restaurants in these new trains?

Yes, as First Class will have a kitchen

 

[PHILIPE]

Fair enough - but I think I'm entitled to reply to a reply of my own post!!

Sorry. You may shoot me.

 

[berneyarms]

Sorry. You may shoot me.

Bang!

 

[Clarence Yard]

The total number of Turbo vehicles at Bristol in December 2018 should be 106. The fleet should be 12 x 166, 16 x 165/1 3 car and 11 x 165/1 2 car.

Exeter should be 2 x 150/0 3 car, 20 x 150/2, 14 x 158 2 car and 5 x 158 3 car.

The retention of the 150/0 after they came off the Basingstokes was a late decision in the bid process, so I have been told, to allow the last 150/1 to go off lease. The DfT were keen to get these available for use elsewhere. The 150/0 are not being offered elsewhere, at the moment, so it looks as if they are staying.

I asked about the Weymouth services - they will be 165/1 3 car, apparently.

Now let's see how much of this changes between now and 2018!

 

[Rapidash]

The total number of Turbo vehicles at Bristol in December 2018 should be 106. The fleet should be 12 x 166, 16 x 165/1 3 car and 11 x 165/1 2 car.

Exeter should be 2 x 150/0 3 car, 20 x 150/2, 14 x 158 2 car and 5 x 158 3 car.



Now let's see how much of this changes between now and 2018!

How large an increase is that compared to now? I can only assume that there will be be an bloomin' big garden shed being built on the otherside of the level crossing? The TMD looks full up with just a few 143's parked up!

 

[jimm]

The total number of Turbo vehicles at Bristol in December 2018 should be 106. The fleet should be 12 x 166, 16 x 165/1 3 car and 11 x 165/1 2 car.

Exeter should be 2 x 150/0 3 car, 20 x 150/2, 14 x 158 2 car and 5 x 158 3 car.

The retention of the 150/0 after they came off the Basingstokes was a late decision in the bid process, so I have been told, to allow the last 150/1 to go off lease. The DfT were keen to get these available for use elsewhere. The 150/0 are not being offered elsewhere, at the moment, so it looks as if they are staying.

I asked about the Weymouth services - they will be 165/1 3 car, apparently.

Now let's see how much of this changes between now and 2018!

Ah yes, I forgot the three-car 165/1 scrapped after Ladbroke Grove - I suppose the 106/108 Bristol-allocated vehicles figure would depend on whether eight or nine two-car 165/1 sets stay at Reading, as you mentioned previously.

 

[Xavi]

How large an increase is that compared to now? I can only assume that there will be be an bloomin' big garden shed being built on the otherside of the level crossing? The TMD looks full up with just a few 143's parked up!

I'd expect the area between the existing depot and platform 6, currently a small car park and the burnt down former National Carriers depot to be redeveloped for an expanded Exeter depot.

 

[Class 170101]

How large an increase is that compared to now? I can only assume that there will be be an bloomin' big garden shed being built on the otherside of the level crossing? The TMD looks full up with just a few 143's parked up!

Remember the 143s are leaving, apparently for the railway graveyard.

 

[Xavi]

The total number of Turbo vehicles at Bristol in December 2018 should be 106. The fleet should be 12 x 166, 16 x 165/1 3 car and 11 x 165/1 2 car.

Exeter should be 2 x 150/0 3 car, 20 x 150/2, 14 x 158 2 car and 5 x 158 3 car.

The retention of the 150/0 after they came off the Basingstokes was a late decision in the bid process, so I have been told, to allow the last 150/1 to go off lease. The DfT were keen to get these available for use elsewhere. The 150/0 are not being offered elsewhere, at the moment, so it looks as if they are staying.

I asked about the Weymouth services - they will be 165/1 3 car, apparently.

Now let's see how much of this changes between now and 2018!

In high summer ideally Exeter fleet deployment would be something like:

Cornwall branch lines / Gunnislake 7 x 150/2

Exmouth - Paignton 2 tph 10 x 150/2 operating as 4-car units, 2 x 150/0

Barnstaple - Axminster 1 tph (or St James Park) 4 x 2-car 158

Penzance - Plymouth 2 tph (some to be IEP to London) 7 x 2-car 158

Taunton - Cardiff 1tph 4 x 3-car 158 + 1 x 2-car 158

Leaving only 1 x3-car 158, 2 x 2-car 158, 3 x 2-car 150/2 for maintenance, which is too little, so either Devon Metro won't get as many 4-car units or Taunton - Cardiff will be 3-car 165s from Bristol.

 

[21C101]

Remember the 143s are leaving, apparently for the railway graveyard.

I imagine that quite a few will be snapped up by various preserved railways for early and late services.

 

[Rapidash]

Remember the 143s are leaving, apparently for the railway graveyard.

Oh, aye, I know that. But 14 158's are a wee bit bigger than 8 143's

 

[Old Hill Bank]

The total number of Turbo vehicles at Bristol in December 2018 should be 106. The fleet should be 12 x 166, 16 x 165/1 3 car and 11 x 165/1 2 car.

Exeter should be 2 x 150/0 3 car, 20 x 150/2, 14 x 158 2 car and 5 x 158 3 car.

The retention of the 150/0 after they came off the Basingstokes was a late decision in the bid process, so I have been told, to allow the last 150/1 to go off lease. The DfT were keen to get these available for use elsewhere. The 150/0 are not being offered elsewhere, at the moment, so it looks as if they are staying.

I asked about the Weymouth services - they will be 165/1 3 car, apparently.

Now let's see how much of this changes between now and 2018!

So we have speculation as to how the Devon and Cornwall stuff may work, how about the Bristol based Turbos. Weymouths as 165 three-car, Cardiff-Portsmouth 166+2-car 165. What about the rest of the jobs?

 

[PHILIPE]

The whole thread appears to have been full of speculation

 

[Xavi]

The Bristol 165/166 fleet would be fully utilised across routes below, so it looks as though Taunton -Cardiff will be 158s from Exeter, which would leave Exmouth - Paignton with several 2-car units to allow sufficient maintenance pool at Exeter.

Bristol - Gloucester / Great Malvern 3 units *
Bristol Parkway - Weston super Mare 2 units *
Severn Beach Line 2 units *
Bristol - Weymouth 3 units *
Bristol - Westbury / Southampton 3 units *
Swindon - Melksham 1 unit
Cardiff - Portsmouth 8 units * + 8 units
Golden Valley IEP
3 units * peak hour services / Brighton
* 3-car units
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The whole thread appears to have been full of speculation

Indeed speculation probably makes up 95% of the whole forum, but there is some fact shared by those with insider knowledge.

I'd just like to speculate how much extra capacity is really going to happen in the far west as a result of this 'great news for passengers' direct award.

My early conclusion is that there will be an improvement but only a modest one.

 

[fgwrich]

In high summer ideally Exeter fleet deployment would be something like:

Cornwall branch lines / Gunnislake 7 x 150/2

Exmouth - Paignton 2 tph 10 x 150/2 operating as 4-car units, 2 x 150/0

Barnstaple - Axminster 1 tph (or St James Park) 4 x 2-car 158

Penzance - Plymouth 2 tph (some to be IEP to London) 7 x 2-car 158

Taunton - Cardiff 1tph 4 x 3-car 158 + 1 x 2-car 158

Leaving only 1 x3-car 158, 2 x 2-car 158, 3 x 2-car 150/2 for maintenance, which is too little, so either Devon Metro won't get as many 4-car units or Taunton - Cardiff will be 3-car 165s from Bristol.

Seems a little tight on the Cornish Branches to use as many single /2s as possible given Falmouth's use of 2 DMUs per hour (or 3 if currently ran with 2 car 150 & 153+153). It doesn't give much room for growth either on the St Ives Branch - 2X150 in summer, and Tavistock / Gunnislake split.

 

[TheWalrus]

Do Newquay, Gunnislake, Looe and St Ives need more than a single 153 outside of summer? And how much capacity do they need in summer?

 

[PHILIPE]

Do Newquay, Gunnislake, Looe and St Ives need more than a single 153 outside of summer? And how much capacity do they need in summer?

Newquay is 2 Car and StIves 4 Car during the Summer. Looe is 2 Car High Summer. Gunnislake 2 Car throughout and StIves 2 Car outside High Summer..

 

[Metobusfan]

I would hope that when the Reigate - Guildford 17 miles of electrification happens that the London Victoria to Reigate trains are extended to Guildford under TSGN Southern and doubled to hourly. Providing a decent Guildford to East Croydon service at the same time.



I don't see much willingness from locals for SWT to appear at Redhill as it will just reduce Southern's income and ability to invest in Redhill which is sorely needed. This would happen as there will be a potentially direct route to London via SWT Guildford if that happens

Be nice to see a regular service to guildford operated by Govia