FGW 57/6 (and DRS 57/3)s Unreliability

[CosherB]

What amazes me is that 57s are technically only 10-15 years old - surely they shouldn't have so many issues at that age?

a class 67 is technically 10 to 15 years old ..... a 57 is decades older!

 

[83G/84D]

After the HST PCs were detached at Plymouth, it was discovered 57310 had lost 3/4 of it's coolant so had to run 57603 round.

The up sleepers was late start from Penzance last night due to yet another brake fault with 57303. Only a minor delay and no further problems during the journey.

 

[cossie4i]

Any updates guys, been interesting reading.

 

[JonathanH]

Any updates guys, been interesting reading.

Last night's up sleeper hauled by 57303 was delayed by 64 minutes from Penzance owing to the late arrival of the traincrew after earlier signal problems.

1C86 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20330/2014/12/22/advanced

1A40 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20087/2014/12/22/advanced

By the time it had got to Taunton (where I boarded) it was 36 minutes late. The train went via Bath instead of Bristol Parkway and arrived at Reading 15 minutes late in time for me to catch the 0434 to Gatwick. With a very short stop at Swindon, it averaged 73 miles an hour between Taunton and Reading. A bit of a short night's sleep for me as a result but 57303 in the book for haulage.

The down sleeper seems to have got to Penzance without any major trouble.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20087/2014/12/22/advanced

 

[PHILIPE]

1C99 Down Sleeper delayed 188 mins in Swindon area last night, but not Loco this time. A defective coach which involved awakening and transferring the passengers and detaching the defective vehicle which was shunted to sidings at Swindon. There were 2 locos on the train, 57310 on rear as insurance as 57602, the front loco, was on it's first trip after returning to service after a spell out. Could possibly have come in handy for shunting.

 

[83G/84D]

There was a hot box on sleeper coach 10589, whilst the coach was "knocked out" the 57on the rear (57310) kept shutting down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Up sleepers 57 minutes late start from penzance last night due to an issue with the GSM-R radio.

 

[PHILIPE]

57310 is the one that has been having coolant problems since working with FGW on the Sleepers..

 

[richw]

1C99 Down Sleeper delayed 188 mins in Swindon area last night, but not Loco this time. A defective coach which involved awakening and transferring the passengers and detaching the defective vehicle which was shunted to sidings at Swindon. There were 2 locos on the train, 57310 on rear as insurance as 57602, the front loco, was on it's first trip after returning to service after a spell out. Could possibly have come in handy for shunting.

The Up was 49 late leaving Swindon after arriving 9 early. Guessed the Up Loco stopped to help with the shunt of the poorly coach?

 

[83G/84D]

57602 failed on up sleepers at Plymouth last night and train terminated. HST ran forward from Plymouth.

 

[CC 72100]

Two power cars sandwiched together, quiet 57310, the Night Riviera stock with the seated coaches at the London end and the berths at the Penzance end (normally other way round, I guess it must have been turned somewhere recently), and noisy 57602 have just gone through Exeter SD, presumably London-bound.

 

[PHILIPE]

Two power cars sandwiched together, quiet 57310, the Night Riviera stock with the seated coaches at the London end and the berths at the Penzance end (normally other way round, I guess it must have been turned somewhere recently), and noisy 57602 have just gone through Exeter SD, presumably London-bound.

I have an idea there has been a recent diversion via Yeovil which would have entailed a reversal at Exeter St.Davids.

 

[83G/84D]

Two power cars sandwiched together, quiet 57310, the Night Riviera stock with the seated coaches at the London end and the berths at the Penzance end (normally other way round, I guess it must have been turned somewhere recently), and noisy 57602 have just gone through Exeter SD, presumably London-bound.

Train was 5Z40 1400 Laira to Old Oak Common. Train may have been turned on Laira triangle for some reason?

 

[455driver]

It was turned last night when taken from Plymouth, onto the washplant and onto Laira.
57602 had wheel probe problems (on its very recently overhauled bogies :roll and 57310s engine kept shutting down (again) when they started it up to run it round in Plymouth.
End result last night was a HST set substituted from Plymouth over 90 minutes late.

 

[CC 72100]

Thanks for the info 455driver - the situation with these 57s over the last few months and the reliability of the service as a result has been dreadful and to be honest, looking from the outside, pretty embarrassing.

I wonder what some of the regular users of the service think, and to what extent this spate of poor reliability is pushing people away from the service, who choose to either fly or take a normal train and stay overnight.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Thanks for the info 455driver - the situation with these 57s over the last few months and the reliability of the service as a result has been dreadful and to be honest, looking from the outside, pretty embarrassing.

I wonder what some of the regular users of the service think, and to what extent this spate of poor reliability is pushing people away from the service, who choose to either fly or take a normal train and stay overnight.

Hope it's not a crafty ploy so they can be rid of the sleeper service

 

[Murph]

Hope it's not a crafty ploy so they can be rid of the sleeper service

Nah, it's their secret plan to create the first HST sleeper. Just need to whip the M-G sets out of the SLEPs and through-connect the 415 buses.

 

[455driver]

Thanks for the info 455driver - the situation with these 57s over the last few months and the reliability of the service as a result has been dreadful and to be honest, looking from the outside, pretty embarrassing.

If I had written that there woulf have been quite a few 4 letter words beginning with F in there!

I wonder what some of the regular users of the service think, and to what extent this spate of poor reliability is pushing people away from the service, who choose to either fly or take a normal train and stay overnight.

See answer from Ash Bridge!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nah, it's their secret plan to create the first HST sleeper. Just need to whip the M-G sets out of the SLEPs and through-connect the 415 buses.

They would need to be single deckers or they wont fit through the tunnels!

Oh I see what you mean!

 

[fgwrich]

Set up tonight will consist of hire in DRS 57303 on the Up Sleeper, And the two HST PCs involved in today's up rescue move leading 57603 on the Down Sleeper as far as Plymouth tonight. Running in pre Christmas rescue formation HST + 57603 + Night Riviera.

 

[455driver]

Set up tonight will consist of hire in DRS 57303 on the Up Sleeper, And the two HST PCs involved in today's up rescue move leading 57603 on the Down Sleeper as far as Plymouth tonight. Running in pre Christmas rescue formation HST + 57603 + Night Riviera.

603 isnt showing on genius though!
It is showing the coaches only going forward from Plymouth so it might be a case of pump the air system up and give them a push!

 

[45022]

08xxx forward from Plymouth tonight anyone?

 

[CosherB]

What a shambles. FGW must be tearing their hair out ...... it's bad enough their own 57/6's conking out, but DRS aren't covering themselves in glory with the 57/3's used as cover. As I've said earlier in the thread, someone must be tapping up DBS for the 67's by now ..... how hard can it be to provide 4 reliable ETH-fitted diesel locomotives??!!

As a further question, what was the original design life for the 57's? They're now between 11 and 17 years old since they were rebuilt, notwithstanding the refurbished component parts are significantly older (47, EMD engine, 56 alternator).

 

[Murph]

As a further question, what was the original design life for the 57's? They're now between 11 and 17 years old since they were rebuilt, notwithstanding the refurbished component parts are significantly older (47, EMD engine, 56 alternator).

I'm pretty sure I read that it was refurbished EMD engines which were new in the 1970s put into them, to keep costs down. That's HST Valenta territory, in terms of age, but no way of knowing how hard a life those engines had prior to landing in the 57s. Hopefully the alternators and traction motors got a deep refurb/rebuild when the 57s were created, and electric motors & alternators can go on almost indefinitely if the heavy bits were well manufactured and they get the correct care in terms of maint, refurb, and rebuild (and are not thrashed to death, obviously).

It sounds like the problems are mostly engine-ish, so could be that the EMD lumps are basically knackered now.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I'm pretty sure I read that it was refurbished EMD engines which were new in the 1970s put into them, to keep costs down. That's HST Valenta territory, in terms of age, but no way of knowing how hard a life those engines had prior to landing in the 57s. Hopefully the alternators and traction motors got a deep refurb/rebuild when the 57s were created, and electric motors & alternators can go on almost indefinitely if the heavy bits were well manufactured and they get the correct care in terms of maint, refurb, and rebuild (and are not thrashed to death, obviously).

It sounds like the problems are mostly engine-ish, so could be that the EMD lumps are basically knackered now.

Just got me thinking, does anyone know what those reconditioned engines would have come out of before the 57s received them?

 

[CosherB]

Just got me thinking, does anyone know what those reconditioned engines would have come out of before the 57s received them?

probably some of these were donors!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp3rs3w3Q6M

 

[Ash Bridge]

probably some of these were donors!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp3rs3w3Q6M

Thanks for that, close you're eyes and you would swear it was a 57 powering up!

 

[83G/84D]

What a shambles. FGW must be tearing their hair out ...... it's bad enough their own 57/6's conking out, but DRS aren't covering themselves in glory with the 57/3's used as cover. As I've said earlier in the thread, someone must be tapping up DBS for the 67's by now ..... how hard can it be to provide 4 reliable ETH-fitted diesel locomotives??!!

As a further question, what was the original design life for the 57's? They're now between 11 and 17 years old since they were rebuilt, notwithstanding the refurbished component parts are significantly older (47, EMD engine, 56 alternator).

Anyone remember the TV programme Banzai? Will the sleeper run or will the 57 fail, place your bets now!

 

[83G/84D]

DRS 57312 is on the move from Willesden to Old Oak Common, possibly another FGW hire in?

 

[PHILIPE]

DRS 57312 is on the move from Willesden to Old Oak Common, possibly another FGW hire in?

Replacing 57310, hopefully, I believe

 

[CosherB]

Replacing 57310, hopefully, I believe

312 would seem an odd choice, being "Solway Princess". Would Belmond have to give the nod for it to be used on the sleeper? Particularly as the service has become something of a magnet for poor publicity of late.

At least 57312 was repainted last September (I think), therefore it must be a byword for perfect reliability for DRS.

 

[alexl92]

312 would be an odd choice, but if 47790 is in good shape they can probably manage without it for a short while.