FCC Staff Shortage

[asylumxl]

If a driver is on £38,000, the difference between 1.5% and 1.0% is less than £200 by my rather quick calculation, before tax!

Is it really about the money or the principle? I am starting to wonder, especially about the 40% of drivers who are losing far more by taking this action!!

Indeed. It doesn't make much sense does it, when they are infact losing money.

 

[jon0844]

I do accept that principle can sometimes be more important. In that regard, it's commendable when someone is willing to sacrifice something to make a difference - but I am not sure exactly what anyone will get from this particular situation.

Does the offer for next year still stand or will that have to be re-negotiated then and we begin all over again?

Perhaps all the drivers ever wanted was a thank you. Jim Morgan was apparently rarely out meeting people face to face (unlike Elaine Holt), so perhaps it was never about the money??

 

[Greenback]

Although the difference may be less than £200, it also flows though to future salary increases, pensions etc.

Besides, I thought it was established earlier in the thread that it's not just about the money, principle does play a part as well as a thank you!

 

[73110]

Perhaps all the drivers ever wanted was a thank you.

Again, and at great risk of sounding like a boring old record I will say most people just wanted some kind of thank you for all the work put in over the last year or so. The offer of 0% was/is a massive insult.

 

[ungreat]

Correct brother..it was

 

[yorkie]

Well, a given what a FCC RPI (who is on this forum) told me about how the company treats its customers, compared to the previous company, I think it probably is more about the poor way Farce treat its employees than the money.

Farce also have a "the customer is guilty until proven innocent" policy with regard to boarding at unstaffed stations (as documented in a recent topic in the fares section of this site), and the people at Farce Late Western HQ show a disgraceful attitude toward customers, so I am not at all surprised that they also treat their staff with contempt.

It's amazing they still have the FGW franchise, given the subsidy/premium profile they agreed to compared with reality.

 

[royaloak]

Although the difference may be less than £200, it also flows though to future salary increases, pensions etc.

Besides, I thought it was established earlier in the thread that it's not just about the money, principle does play a part as well as a thank you!

And next year when manglement go in for the pay talks they will be fully aware that the staff will not be p1ssed about and that a sensible offer should make to start with.
Although the drivers will lose a bit this year, hopefully manglement will be a little more reasonable next time the pay-talks are taking place, and the drivers will get this loss back, and more over the next few years, I am NOT advocating industrial action for the fun of it just a sensible position from BOTH sides.

 

[Greenback]

Agreed. I can't undeerstand how First can expect their staff to accept a 0% 'offer' (after a long delay) when they award shareholders a 10% increase in their dividend and tell the world that they are doing very well thank you!

 

[ungreat]

Its not about the money,for most..it's the way they have said repeatedly "we will talk later" whilst we helped them out big time whilst loads of drivers were off training on 321/377 units,then sit down with our reps and say"Right,0%,backdated from April",and LAUGH about it.If they had said "Theres nothing boys to give this year,how about we get a deal sorted for April 2010 now and stick with it" I doubt they would have had many detractors.As it stands,they have peed off many grades,not just the drivers

 

[Roger That]

Apparently talks broke up late this afternoon with no agreement being reached. An offer was made, the bottom line figure being a 1% rise backdated to April with a further 0.25% (or £95) on the headline salary from December. Then April 2010 it was 2.2% with a further 1% based on productivity. This was rejected by ASLEF and the industrial action ballot will commence next week. Also, it seems that the withdrawal of goodwill currently going on on the TL route has spread to the GN, so expect to see numerous cancellations on the GN next week.

 

[ungreat]

It had already spread,over the last week or so..just took longer.Peterborough withdrew goodwill last week.The rest of the GN depots have already,or will soon,follow suit

 

[Roger That]

Apart from Kings Cross, obviously

 

[ungreat]

Yeah...correct.I refrain from saying the word

 

[asylumxl]

I know this is a crazy conspiracy theory, but...

What if the actual intention of all of this is to force FCC to lose the franchise?

The drivers have rejected good offers. They appear to be going forward on the industrial action.

 

[Roger That]

If you think waiting seven months to be offered 1%, after originally being offered 0%, when the company has seen it's profits rise by 5.2% and shareholder dividend rise again by 10% in a 'recession', when in the companies own words they are "recession proof", is a good offer, then you need to tell me what a bad offer would have been.

 

[asylumxl]

I was under the impression that the original rate they aimed for was less than the rate offered on Friday. Though I'm probably wrong. The drivers are also losing money by not working voluntary days. So....

What is it about?

 

[Aictos]

If you think waiting seven months to be offered 1%, after originally being offered 0%, when the company has seen it's profits rise by 5.2% and shareholder dividend rise again by 10% in a 'recession', when in the companies own words they are "recession proof", is a good offer, then you need to tell me what a bad offer would have been.

Indeed, I'm grateful to the drivers for taking this stand in the hope that other grades will benefit although I'm not holding my breath.

The difference between the drivers taking action and the other grades is management wouldn't take the blindest bit of notice if the other grades walked out as trains would still run but when the drivers stand up and walk out then obviously no trains can run so FCC has to do something.

Is it really that hard for management to come down and say, thank you guys and present a decent offer as a reward?

What I do know is the full term of the franchise is until 2015 although this does depend on meeting performance targets at the end of the fourth year ie 2010, which will give an automatic two-year extension, and an extension for up to three years after the sixth year at the discretion of the DfT.

Which in turn could mean that if FCC are lucky and succeed next year to get that 2 year extension, FCC would be operating right up to the 2012 games and if they're really lucky, they would get a possible 3 year extension which would take it up to 2015 and hopefully the completion of the Thameslink programme which would be perfect timing to consider the future of the Greater Thameslink/Great Northern route.

 

[73110]

The drivers are also losing money by not working voluntary days. So....

Only a handful are, what about the drivers that do not work any overtime at all.

It is not a conspiracy to get them to loose their franchise at all, you are talking rubbish here. We have been over this time and time again, it is about the (lack of) goodwill gesture from the company that doesn't care a toss about any of its employees.

 

[asylumxl]

Only a handful are, what about the drivers that do not work any overtime at all.

It is not a conspiracy to get them to loose their franchise at all, you are talking rubbish here. We have been over this time and time again, it is about the (lack of) goodwill gesture from the company that doesn't care a toss about any of its employees.

I said it was a crazy conspiracy theory.

Why have they chosen now rather than the many months prior?

Big corporations don't give a toss about their employees, they're expendable. To think otherwise you'd be naive.

 

[73110]

Why have they chosen now rather than the many months prior?

For what?

 

[asylumxl]

For what?

Withdrawing courtesy and balloting for industrial action

 

[Roger That]

Withdrawing courtesy and balloting for industrial action

I'm very courteous when I decline to go to work on one of my days off.

There was no action earlier because FCC hadn't put a 0% offer on the table. The pay review is late every year, making this year look nothing out of the ordinary, until the percentage was mentioned.

There is plenty of stomach for a fight from Drivers from what I overhear in messrooms and this dispute will escalate to a strike unless FCC start being reasonable. FCC showed their hand somewhat, offering 3% from next April so the feeling on the ground is that 3% is what we would settle for backdated to April 2009.

 

[jon0844]

Drivers aren't expecting 3% this year and then 3% next year too? Come on!!

What if a company offered a generous pay rise one year for no reason? Would you thank them by now demanding the same each year? If the answer is yes, you will of course find those generous offers disappear pretty quickly. It's a dangerous game to start playing.

 

[O L Leigh]

When I consider what the increase that was achieved on NXEA following a period of strike action, a target of 3% backdated and the same for 2010 seems unrealistic. That's not to say that I don't support the efforts of my colleagues on FCC, but I do wonder whether holding out for an increase of that size is going to be a case of cutting of your noses to spite your face.

O L Leigh

 

[73110]

feeling on the ground is that 3% is what we would settle for backdated to April 2009.

Well, that is the first I have heard to be honest. Last week the talk was 1 and a half would get accepted, no-one mentioned 3% for this year as we know that would just not be. There is no way they will offer 3% now and the same next year, every knows that!

 

[Greenback]

Drivers aren't expecting 3% this year and then 3% next year too? Come on!!

What if a company offered a generous pay rise one year for no reason? Would you thank them by now demanding the same each year? If the answer is yes, you will of course find those generous offers disappear pretty quickly. It's a dangerous game to start playing.

It's all down to context really isn't it? Suppose you are workin g for a company that has a REALLY good year, so they say to their staff, well done, we've done brilliantly, have a 5% rise, then next year they say, we've struggled a bit, will you only accept a 1% rise? Or, even worse, we've made a big loss, we can't afford to give any rise at all, but we don't want to make anyone redundant, then I can see most employees being reasonable as they've been treated fairly.

What we have with First though is - we're doing really well in the recession, we've paid our shareholders 10% more dividend this year because we're doing so well, we've made lots of staff redundant to conmtrol our costs, oh, er, sorry, because of the economic downturn we can only offer you abslutely NOTHING (ha, ha), but we promise we'll give you 3% next year, honest guv.

Who knows what drivers wille xpect next year. What profits will First be makin? How much subsidy will they recieve? What will other companies be offering? What will the RPI be? As I say, who knows?

 

[jon0844]

Wouldn't the 3% be guaranteed now? They couldn't go back if they made it an official offer could they?

I'm still torn about the issue of what shareholders got as dividends? No investors would be rather bad for a company, but why would I (or indeed any driver, as I'm sure some are shareholders too) want to invest if I got nothing back for my money? You invest in a business to MAKE money don't you.

I personally see that as a red herring. I guess it's more of an issue of what the MD/CEO gets and any bonuses paid. But, then it comes down to principle again - as the MD's salary wouldn't give much of a pay rise to every member of staff at FCC if distributed evenly.

 

[Greenback]

I accept that the dividend might be a bit irrelevant in that a dividend of 18p per share would only go up to 19.8p with a 10% increase! And companies must seek to reward shareholders for their investment and faith in the company.Similarly, Sir Moir's salary increase and bonuses wouldn;t amount to much if spread out among te workforce!

But why should the employees be told there;s nothing for them when there;s clearly a lot more for shareholders and top management? It's not as if First have been generous to their staff in the past either!

 

[jon0844]

That 10% extra to shareholders may well be worth a LOT more in return. Why doesn't FCC offer staff shares as a 'thank you'? This has the added benefit of giving an incentive to work harder, while also sharing some of the risk.

 

[Greenback]

Exactly right! Although itappears FCC can't offer anything unless Moir says so!

The Great Western management buy out led by Brian Scott offered very good share options to staff at the time. There was a good feeling about the company beofre First bought the managers out, but since then it seems to have been a constant struggle to get anythin at all out of the company! I joined GW in 1998, beofre the buy out, and my colleagues with share options were very pro company. This has all been slowly whittled away by the way First behave, one of the worst things they did for customers and staff was to close the ticket office at Heathrow Airport, but that's probably best left for another discussion! Anyway, I left in 2001, I'd had enough of the hours, the low pay, the constant overtime, management threats etc