CockneySparrow
Member
Very erratic pattern today for FCC in the Cambridge area, some services was a train some were buses, heard that FCC drivers chose not to work today
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
FCC Drivers - no Sunday working
- Thread starter CockneySparrow
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
CockneySparrow
Member
Yes so I see, I guess its something that they wouldn't write on the website, noticed that the trains are running normal to Cambridge from London then the train is terminated
Sleepy
Established Member
certainly was overunning work in Cambridge area in the morning also affecting GA and XC services.I do think that we'll probably see various problems with Sunday operation on some TOCs in the run up to Christmas. Usually there are enough people to volunteer, but at certain times that doesn't happen because too many people want to be off.
FCC rarely, if ever, admits this as the problem.
But wouldn't FCC know by now, as I presume people still have to volunteer (or not) a reasonable time in advance?
FCC rarely, if ever, admits this as the problem.
But wouldn't FCC know by now, as I presume people still have to volunteer (or not) a reasonable time in advance?
Last edited:
CockneySparrow
Member
It just seemed strange that FCC was still running the run train one bus late into the evening, buses were arriving into Lynn at the same time as the train that left Ely an hour later than the bus lol
No official action was being taken on Sunday however I can tell you that no kings Lynn drivers volunteered for extra Sundays and those already rostered all had other things planned and so had to make themselves un-available on Sunday. This didn't affect any other depots however as only Cambridge and Lynn sign north of Cambridge it made running any sort of train service on that line very difficult. Afraid that's all I can say on the matter on an open forum but it certainly wasn't anything official.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Are Saturdays voluntary too? It might be a wider issue, several FCC trains were binned north of Cambridge on Saturday too due to a lack of drivers.
Saturdays are not voluntary. Traditionally there are less volunteers for RDW on a sat though for obvious reasons so whilst RDW cover during the week tends to mean any shortage of staff goes unnoticed it can be harder to cover open turns on a Saturday.
RDW may be a big issue on the GN from next week anyway as the new computer generated diagrams come into play and very few drivers will want to be in on days off to cover the intense rubbish TRACSIS has cobbled together...5 hours in the chair, no toilet breaks (on 313s) and bare minimum PNBs and turnarounds anyone...?
westcoaster
Established Member
5 hours in the chair pmsl , where you going to Edinburgh
hock:hock:
on the tl side we have jobs where you are physically driving in the same cab, same unit for over 4 hours you get in the seat at 04:30 and back out of it at 08:49 now that's in the chair and no toilet breaks, no change ends.
That computer needs a blue screen of death.
hock:hock: on the tl side we have jobs where you are physically driving in the same cab, same unit for over 4 hours you get in the seat at 04:30 and back out of it at 08:49 now that's in the chair and no toilet breaks, no change ends. That computer needs a blue screen of death.
Last edited:
5 hours in the chair pmsl , where you going to Edinburgh
That computer needs a blue screen of death.
You lot got the TRACSIS through in may, we managed to refuse them but had less luck this time. I'm just waiting for the most minor delay leading to spoilt pns and all the subsequent chaos that will ensure...trains sitting at Finsbury park awaiting relief who is still at Welwyn having missed his 3 min connecting pass train etc!
There isn't enough work to get other depots to Lynn being only 1 train per hour. They have considered voluntary links at kings x and Hitchin before signing to Lynn but couldn't justify it with the lack of regular work.
CockneySparrow
Member
Would asking GA for help cover be an option, there are the drivers that drive down there currently during the week if they were available and willing to work they could run FCC 317s
Asking Schenker would be out of the question as the drivers aren't familiar with 317s or 365s although they know the route
bronzeonion
Member
FCC rely on people to do overtime to cover the trains they're running?!
Thousands of firms rely on overtime I guess but seemingly not as much as they used too in years gone by
It's not really as easy as that. For a start FCC and GA 317s are different and so they would need a conversion course, plus they can't just borrow drivers at short notice, if there is any whiff of industrial action (not saying this was) then other drivers arnt going to volunteer and also ga are very unlikely to have drivers sitting about doing nothing to cover it.
Also, DB won't sign the route for passenger work-they may trundle up there with a 60mph freight train but put them in the chair of a 90mph passenger unit and ask them to stop in the platform and you have a problem! Plus they would need to be trained in DOO rules and regs.
All companies do. FCC have quite a small reliance on RDW compared to some companies. Southern can have over half the drivers working that day on RDW! But Sundays are different as unlike mon-sat drivers can opt out if working. Never normally an issue as there are generally more volunteers to work Sundays than there is work. This Sunday had various reasons for no one at a depot being free to work.
Rather depends is they are ticketed for class one work or not doesn't it
If you sign the route, you sign the route
The issue would be one of traction knowledge
True but they arnt cleared to passenger DOO work. Other passenger trains worked by DBS (trains Pennines and southern - Milton Keynes) have guards who fully operate doors.
Plus, as I say, realistically a freight driver won't have a clue on braking points for stations. Exactly the same that an east coast driver wouldn't have a clue at the braking point for Potters bar or a gatwick express driver wouldn't know where to put the brake in for purley. They could work it out but no toc would let then drive a train without further route knowledge.
bronzeonion
Member
That's bad, especially train companies if they're putting services down in the timetable but in reality they might not run because the person who's meant to work it can choose not to
asylumxl
Established Member
This is not a new issue for FCC at all.
A few years back on the Thameslink side there was an unofficial "driver strike" which I believe was infact due to an internal dispute regarding contract terms. It went on for nearly 2 months and if I recall correctly FCC ran 8 carriage all station trains on an emergency timetable for quite some time.
It seemed inconvenient for us at first, but it quickly became apparent there were less 4 carriage trains around so there were more seats for us weary commuters!
Diagramming has been this way for a while in places, it's ok having minimum passing times and PNB times if you can guarantee 100% right time running all day every day. In the end it costs more than what they reckon it will save through the disruption and delays.
I wonder if the people who made up these diagrams and rosters actually had to work them themselves they may not be so keen on them and see the effects they have on those that do
Ministry Man
Member
- Joined
- 2 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 10
It needs to change if we want a well run reliable network.
notadriver
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 3,735
I would say I know the braking points for stations I don't normally stop at in the London area. There are two TOCs i know that drive each other's stock without needing further route knowledge.
It wasn't a strike - a strike is very different and involves withdrawing labour. No labour was withdrawn back then-everyone came in on days they were rostered to work and did the full job without argument. It is just that few drivers volunteered to come into work on their days off. It wasn't even really a 'work to rule',just a case of no volunteers for overtime.
The diagrams are all legal on paper so they get away with it but it will definately lead to a rise in incidents as has happened on the TL since may.
As you say, they work when everything runs to time but even when things are running well trains can easily be 3-4mins late especially in the peaks due to things like overcrowding or waiting to get across Woolmer green or digswell.
Plus when working 5 hours solid on a 313 with minimum turnarounds at places like Moorgate, Stevenage and Gordon hill which don't have toilets on platforms delays will soon build up whilst we go upstairs to use the loo-I can't see how train planners think that drivers can last 5 hours without a toilet break, especially when the constantly tell us to drink lots of fluids to maintain concentration.
It's been like this for the past 50 years or so. I doubt it will change anytime soon...not when overtime makes it so much cheaper for the TOCs than employing a full establishment of drivers.
BigBird47537
Member
- Joined
- 3 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 8
Trans-Pennine don't use DBS drivers.
Anyway, speaking of Rest Day Working, some TOC's do not work rest days as ASLEF wont allow it so if no cover is available the train gets cancelled. Many drivers are willing to work but are not allowed. So much for representing your members.
I didn't say they did anymore but DBS / EWS ran passenger trains for both southern and trans pennine in the past (and in both cases the guard had full control of doors).
As for ASLEF, it isn't that simple. No union is going to support overtime. If a union supports over time then it is saying it agrees with less people being employed. Why give 6 people jobs when you can recruit 4, allow them to work overtime and leave 2 people in the dole que?...
ASLEF sanction RDW for companies who are actively recruiting to cover all work. Some companies have a high turnover of drivers and so constantly recruit and so RDW is allowed (like FCC and other London based commuter TOCs).
Even at companies with no rest day agreement overtime does happen. With a rest day agreement the drivers generally get a better deal (we get £50bonus for working a rest day plus get paid time+15%) which is negotiated by the union to discourage the company from relying on overtime. Companies which don't actively recruit but need to rely on RDW won't get an agreement with the unions as they are making no effort to employ enough staff.
It's worth remembering that the union are looking at the bigger picture. Drivers may see RDW as desireable in terms of extra money but what happens when the company makes that driver redundant as it decides it can reduce e workforce and rely on the rest of the drivers to work their days off? That driver by insisting on working overtime for an extra £200 has sold their own job or that of their colleagues out.
- Status