Far-right protests

[BigDog]

These people have precisely zero "genuine concerns". They are prejudiced against them simply because they are migrants.

Remind me of what nationality the likes of Sutcliffe and Huntley were. Plenty of bad native English people.

Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of people whinging and whining about migrants.

How on earth do you know they don't have genuine concerns?
Why would they protest and raise their concerns about past serial killers that are now dead?

 

[nw1]

How on earth do you know they don't have genuine concerns?

Because they are picking on them because they are migrants, and they don't make the same fuss about native English people every time they commit anti-social behaviour.

 

[BigDog]

Because they are picking on them because they are migrants, and they don't make the same fuss about native English people.

I was just offering up examples of particularly evil native British people to counter the "British good, foreign bad" claptrap that they constantly spout.

No, they are voicing there concern because a bunch of male migrants have been housed in a local hotel which has led to nuisance complaints.

 

[nw1]

No, they are voicing there concern because a bunch of male migrants have been housed in a local hotel which has led to nuisance complaints.

And would they indulge in disruptive and sometimes violent nationwide protests if gangs of native-born British youths were causing the same trouble?
No, thought not.

Would the riots have happened if a white British person was falsely accused of the Southport killings?
No, thought not.

Not just the UK, but the entire Western world has a big problem with xenophobia and Islamophobia at the moment. It needs to be dealt with urgently.

 

[BigDog]

And would they indulge in disruptive and sometimes violent nationwide protests if gangs of native-born British youths were causing the same trouble?
No, thought not.

There you go, just as I said. You are accusing these people of participating in violent protests when they did nothing of the sort. You can't just shout these people down in an attempt to silence them, that won't make their concerns disappear.

 

[nw1]

There you go, just as I said. You are accusing these people of participating in violent protests when they did nothing of the sort. You can't just shout these people down in an attempt to silence them, that won't make their concerns disappear.

Ah, so the imaginary riots. The imaginary attacks on imaginary mosques and imaginary members of the public and police officers.

Perhaps the "riots" were a left-wing media conspiracy cooked up by people who want to discredit the populist right, and they never happened.

 

[BigDog]

Ah, so the imaginary riots. The imaginary attacks on imaginary mosques and imaginary members of the public and police officers.

Perhaps the "riots" were a left-wing conspiracy theory cooked up by people who want to discredit the populist right.

Ok, so according to your logic the entire BLM protestors were violent thugs intent on causing harm & destruction?

 

[Dent]

You can't just shout these people down in an attempt to silence them, that won't make their concerns disappear.

What concerns?

How do you propose to address the problem of xenophobia if you consider any attempt to call it out and expose it for what it is to be "shouting these people down?

 

[nw1]

Ok, so according to your logic the entire BLM protestors were violent thugs intent on causing harm & destruction?

No. BLM were civil rights protestors, addressing real genuine concerns of actual racism: quite different.

 

[najaB]

No, they are voicing there concern because a bunch of male migrants have been housed in a local hotel which has led to nuisance complaints.

And, those who voiced those concerns peaceably should be paid attention to. That's completely different to those who engaged in violence and attempted murder.

 

[BigDog]

What concerns?

How do you propose to address the problem of xenophobia if you consider any attempt to call it out and expose it for what it is to be "shouting these people down?

Concerns about reported assaults, harassment, noise nuisance, etc. I suspect your opinion would be different if you lived there and was forced to put up with it.

 

[nw1]

Concerns about reported assaults, harassment, noise nuisance, etc. I suspect your opinion would be different if you lived there and was forced to put up with it.

Plenty of that from native-born British people in certain places. But it doesn't cause mass nationwide protests, even though it is a problem.

 

[BigDog]

No. BLM were civil rights protestors, addressing real genuine concerns of actual racism: quite different.

You're right, just peaceful protestors raising their concerns.

 

[nw1]

You're right, just peaceful protestors raising their concerns.

Cherry-picking an incident, of course.

At the end of the day, BLM was motivated for a desire for equality and to stop racism. These riots/protests were motivated by a phobia of people unlike themselves and based on a ridiculous Internet lie about the identity of the Southport killer. Polar opposites.

 

[BigDog]

Cherry-picking an incident, of course.

At the end of the day, BLM was motivated for a desire for equality and to stop racism. These riots/protests were motivated by a phobia of people unlike themselves. Polar opposites.

Just one incident you say, would you like me to share more?

 

[nw1]

Just one incident you say, would you like me to share more?

No. Maybe it's time to end this discussion, I've made my point and I'd just be making the same points again. Except: why is it ok to riot/protest when the troublemakers are migrants, but not when they are native-born British people?

 

[Dent]

Concerns about reported assaults, harassment, noise nuisance, etc.

Why are theses concerns about migration and not concerns about crime regardless of anyone's race?

I notice you haven't actually answered my question of how you propose to call out and address the problem of xenophobic attitudes without being accused of shouting anyone down.

I suspect your opinion would be different if you lived there and was forced to put up with it.

Different to what? I haven't expressed an opinion, I have asked you a question (which you have failed to answer).

 

[BigDog]

No. Maybe it's time to end this discussion, I've made my point and I'd just be making the same points again.

Yes, I think we both have made our points. I think we both agree that we can't label everyone as rioters because of the actions of a minority.

 

[ainsworth74]

You're right, just peaceful protestors raising their concerns.

It might surprise you to learn that a lot of people, including myself, have no problem with the BLM protesters who committed disorder and violence facing the full force of the law just as the present right wingers have done.

You're allowed to protest. You're not allowed to riot, intimidate innocent people, attack the police, or attempt to murder people. This is not a difficult concept.

 

[Dent]

Yes, I think we both have made our points. I think we both agree that we can't label everyone as rioters because of the actions of a minority.

Do you also agree that you can't label immigrants as criminals just because of the actions of a minority, and that concern about crime is not a genuine concern about immigration?

 

[BigDog]

It might surprise you to learn that a lot of people, including myself, have no problem with the BLM protesters who committed disorder and violence facing the full force of the law just as the present right wingers have done.

You're allowed to protest. You're not allowed to riot, attack the police, or attempt to murder people. This is not a difficult concept.

It might surprise you to learn that I have no problem with rioters facing the full wrath of the law as well. You can't go around assaulting the police and setting hotels on fire.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==

Do you also agree that you can't label immigrants as criminals just because of the actions of a minority, and that concern about crime is not a genuine concern about immigration?

No, you can label immigrants as criminal if they are actually criminal. Do I think that all immigrants are criminal, that's an absurd question, of course not, where did I say that?

 

[nw1]

Do these migrants also happen to eat the neighbors' dogs and cats?

I'm sure Mr Trump would have you believe that, and quite possibly some of his international acolytes, including certain current British MPs, too.

 

[BigDog]

I'm sure Mr Trump would have you believe that, and quite possibly some of his international acolytes, including certain current British MPs, too.

Silly questions like that won't remove the fact that local residents have made complaints about anti-social behaviour down at the hotel.

 

[Dent]

No, you can label immigrants as criminal if they are actually criminal. Do I think that all immigrants are criminal, that's an absurd question, of course not, where did I say that?

You were rather implying that by conflating concerns about crime with concerns about immigration, thus conflating someone being an immigrant with them being a criminal.

I notice you still haven't answered by question of how you propose to address the problem of xenophobia.

 

[nw1]

Silly questions like that won't remove the fact that local residents have made complaints about anti-social behaviour down at the hotel.

As I'm sure you realise, @bahnause was almost certainly trying to inject a bit of humour into the proceedings.

 

[BigDog]

You were rather implying that by conflating concerns about crime with concerns about immigration, thus conflating someone being an immigrant with them being a criminal.

No, I was merely pointing out that local residents have raised concerns about male asylum seekers, who have been at times, nuisances, being housed in a hotel near to their homes. I think it's unfair to reject their concerns and shout them down as racist.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==

As I'm sure you realise, @bahnause was almost certainly trying to inject a bit of humour into the proceedings.

Fair enough, and I apologise as it felt like sarcasm aimed towards me.

 

[DarloRich]

local residents have made complaints about anti-social behaviour down at the hotel.

they lost the right to be taken seriously when they tried to burn the place down! How does murder fix any problems?

I was merely pointing out that local residents have raised concerns about male asylum seekers, who have been at times, nuisances, being housed in a hotel near to their homes.

I am also fairly sure most of those complaints are driven by semi literate posts on Facebook that tun out to be nonsense. I have seen similar in my area and 9 times out of 10 they are simply lies or at best a misunderstanding/misreprestation of a situation. I get why the lies are upsetting. That's the point of them and many people are simply not equipped to sniff out bullparp.

The real issue here is that the media and "influencers" insist that dirty forigns are being put up in fancy ( aka 3 star hotels) and getting loads of free stuff and luxury houses that you have to sweat your backside off for and some people lap it up! The problem with that is that the genuine issues ( and there will be some) are lost in the noise of nonsense.

 

[nw1]

No, I was merely pointing out that local residents have raised concerns about male asylum seekers, who have been at times, nuisances, being housed in a hotel near to their homes. I think it's unfair to reject their concerns and shout them down as racist.

As I've said a few times though, xenophobia comes in when the behaviour of similar British-born troublemakers does not incite the same response. And to me it seems they do not, despite antisocial behaviour from British people being a long-standing problem.

 

[BigDog]

As I've said a few times though, xenophobia comes in when the behaviour of similar British-born troublemakers does not incite the same response. And to me it seems they do not, despite antisocial behaviour from British people being a long-standing problem.

I don't agree, you don't think that people would be raising concerns and complaining if a gang of Brits were behaving the same, of course they would IMO.

 

[Dent]

No, I was merely pointing out that local residents have raised concerns about male asylum seekers, who have been at times, nuisances, being housed in a hotel near to their homes. I think it's unfair to reject their concerns and shout them down as racist.

My point was that these are concerns about crime, and would be equally concerning whatever the race of those involved. Conflating these concerns with concern about immigration is racist.

I think it's unfair to reject their concerns and shout them down as racist.

Where did anyone propose rejecting and shouting down genuine concerns about crime?

Once again, how do you propose to call out racism for what it is without being accused of rejecting anyone's concern and shouting anyone down?