Failure to call, Hayes & Harlington

[ComUtoR]

Apologies,

None needed.

hourly service, this kind of thing never happens up here!

I bet it does.

 

[AlterEgo]

It wasn't that long ago that I was told it was ridiculous to suggest that passengers would want to vent their anger at a driver in the case of an operational incident (and that's what this was).
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2950538&postcount=372

That quote post - which is taken out of context - was along the lines of "as if that is a reason to conceal the reason for delays!" - quite ridiculous.

Nobody was "venting their anger at the driver". As other have pointed out this would have been an inconvenience at worst.

It's a local news article with an unsourced quote which doesn't make much sense. "Everybody" knocking on the "engine room" indeed.

It's about the first time anyone has taken a super slow news day, local news story about the Railway seriously on this forum!

Also do note how the driver was perfectly honest about the cause of the operational incident and how nobody died and nothing bad happened as a result of that honesty with the paying customer.

 

[bb21]

Must say the "engine room" bit really cracked me up. I wonder if their "journalists" or whoever they claim to be quoting still use typewriters.

 

[AlterEgo]

Must say the "engine room" bit really cracked me up. I wonder if their "journalists" or whoever they claim to be quoting still use typewriters.

The important thing in the article is the lack of a name against the quote, which almost certainly is not truthful. All we know for sure is that someone took a picture of the driver (not exactly the best thing to do but equally not exactly "everyone getting angry") and the train didn't stop because he made a mistake which he owned up to. The driver did the right thing in my view.

 

[EM2]

Nobody was "venting their anger at the driver". As other have pointed out this would have been an inconvenience at worst.

It's a local news article with an unsourced quote which doesn't make much sense. "Everybody" knocking on the "engine room" indeed.

So why did at least one person want to take the driver's photo?
Maybe so they could send him a Thank You card?

 

[bb21]

The important thing in the article is the lack of a name against the quote, which almost certainly is not truthful. All we know for sure is that someone took a picture of the driver (not exactly the best thing to do but equally not exactly "everyone getting angry") and the train didn't stop because he made a mistake which he owned up to. The driver did the right thing in my view.

The driver is about the only one in this whole sorry episode who came out with any credibility imo.

 

[AlterEgo]

So why did at least one person want to take the driver's photo?
Maybe so they could send him a Thank You card?

Who knows? Probably to put on social media with a flippant caption - I expect that is where the journo sources their story from, hence the lack of attributed quotes.

 

[Parallel]

I agree with what others have said. Failing to stop at Hayes & Harlington isn't a major problem. The stations are fairly close together and the services are fairly frequent. Annoying but it isn't the end of the world. It'd be more of an issue if a driver failed to stop at somewhere like Castle Cary or Pewsey.

I hate the mentality of "OMG THE DRIVER HASN'T STOPPED LET'S TAKE LOADS OF PHOTOS OF HIM"... Who does that? And for what purpose? To try and humiliate him? They must have had a very boring day if that's their excitement!

 

[tsr]

Imagine a week of that, then imagine a month, then imagine how many stops you can do in a year. Miss a single stop and all hell breaks loose. 89 stops is about average. The most I've had in a day was 144 :/ Missing a single stop is a teeny tiny percentage of the number of stops we do.

Can assure you I know how you feel. I tend to find that beyond 60-70 stops, your brain does start to seriously hurt when focussing on the same sorts of things so repetitively.

It's all very well doing so many psychometric tests before getting a safety-critical job, but the environmental factors and other issues mean that very few people are ideally suited to that sort of thing, and such intense scrutiny only makes crammed-in work even more draining. Eventually the house of cards collapses and you miss Faygate or Cowden (well, maybe not you...).

Then you have one of those days which is all "one stop -> pass to somewhere -> three stops -> pass -> shunt -> break -> more travelling pass" and you wonder why you can't be given days which are a combination of the two - more varied and humane.

 

[staticsteve]

I travel on the Adelante (class 180) regularly and there is a 5-10 second delay between when train stops and doors are released. You can hear the 2 x 2 buzzes between the TM and Driver and what amazes me is that I'm waiting by the door (and door buttons), and someone just comes from behind and presses the door button thinking that somehow they have the magic touch and they can open it. Extremely annoying :roll:

It may be that they don't know that the doors haven't been released yet, and are unsure of whether you've pressed the button.

It's probably easier for them to the the button themselves than to ask you.

Asking a stranger 'Have you pressed the button?" might elicit a snarky response, such as "Why do you think I'm standing here?".

I tend to avoid asking strangers questions for that reason.

I have seen similar on the HSTs where I am not sure its down to peoples impatience or just ignorance of realising that while they are manual doors, there is still central door locking. Normally the time between train stopping and doors being released is almost instantaneous on the HST but I remember one time this wasn't the case and there was a man who was absolutely trying to force the door open (from inside the train). When the doors were finally released, he was pulling so hard that the door swung open and he almost tripped up.

Many people won't have a clue how the central locking works, and would probably be panicking a little if the train came to the station, but they couldn't open the door.

I'd feel pretty foolish in that situation, being unsure of how those types of doors worked, and worrying about missing my stop.

When I use those trains I always hope there's someone getting off in from of me who will operate the door instead.

 

[Dhassell]

Driver makes a mistake, admits it, and then try shove a camera in his window, How incredibly silly, what is taking a picture of him going to achieve? :-x

 

[ComUtoR]

Driver makes a mistake, admits it, and then try shove a camera in his window, How incredibly silly, what is taking a picture of him going to achieve? :-x

• Small photo credit in the paper
• Journalist request on your twitter/insta/snap
• Small fee
• Endlessly boring pub story about it
• Social media link in newspaper
• Smugness

Sometimes, just for the lols.

 

[BestWestern]

Many people won't have a clue how the central locking works, and would probably be panicking a little if the train came to the station, but they couldn't open the door.

I'd feel pretty foolish in that situation, being unsure of how those types of doors worked, and worrying about missing my stop.

When I use those trains I always hope there's someone getting off in from of me who will operate the door instead.

There is, however, a diagramatic sign attached to the inside of HST doors entitled "TO OPEN DOOR"

 

[313103]

Can we not turn this into a discussion on DOO please. If the driver forgets to stop, there is nothing the guard can do, so this is all a bit irrelevant.

Yes there is actually, the Guard would of known the route and would/could of activated the pass comm as i had done a few times as a Guard.

 

[greatkingrat]

In most cases, by the time the Guard or anyone else realises the train isn't going to stop, it would be too late to do anything about it.

 

[HLE]

I think 313 was referring to an unscheduled stop - as in using the passcom to alert the driver that the service isn't meant to stop there.

I doubt many would be happy if a guard used the passcom to stop a train at a station - it'd have to be good judgement to get it in the platform anyway.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes there is actually, the Guard would of known the route and would/could of activated the pass comm as i had done a few times as a Guard.

At the braking point, or when it was too late?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not reminders as such, but the PA announcements are automatic.



Second bit - yes more than you would think. Referred to as an unscheduled stop.

I've had:

Guard: The next station is Leighton Buzzard
Driver (over PA): We don't stop at Leighton Buzzard.
Guard: Oh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think 313 was referring to an unscheduled stop - as in using the passcom to alert the driver that the service isn't meant to stop there.

I doubt many would be happy if a guard used the passcom to stop a train at a station - it'd have to be good judgement to get it in the platform anyway.

I've seen a guard use it to stop the train departing after he'd closed his panel up and had realised he had forgotten to assist a wheelchair user off.

 

[Michael.Y]

Yes there is actually, the Guard would of known the route and would/could of activated the pass comm as i had done a few times as a Guard.

More than that - drivers and guards *should* have a quick chat and ideally compare diagrams before setting off. Usually on diagrams where a major station is missed (like Didcot on the Swanseas / Bristols) just to check they know which one they're stopping at.

 

[dk1]

He is only human & never mind the punters. He's more angry at himself & his career that he FORGOT to stop. Also please excuse the inappropriate use of capital letters but for some reason they where used in the initial news story.

 

[Wivenswold]

It's annoying for passengers when it happens but why make it any worse for the driver?

He should have gone for the "Westminster Spin" approach and announced that he'd "increased the journey value-add in real terms by exceeding passenger deliverability expectations with a short-term fare freeze/distance gain improvement that wouldn't be possible if it weren't for our commitment to a strong economy". All finished off with a confident nod that suggests he's answered the question and has more important things to do.

 

[BestWestern]

It's annoying for passengers when it happens but why make it any worse for the driver?

He should have gone for the "Westminster Spin" approach and announced that he'd "increased the journey value-add in real terms by exceeding passenger deliverability expectations with a short-term fare freeze/distance gain improvement that wouldn't be possible if it weren't for our commitment to a strong economy". All finished off with a confident nod that suggests he's answered the question and has more important things to do.

Brilliant!

 

[Cantab26]

It's annoying for passengers when it happens but why make it any worse for the driver?

He should have gone for the "Westminster Spin" approach and announced that he'd "increased the journey value-add in real terms by exceeding passenger deliverability expectations with a short-term fare freeze/distance gain improvement that wouldn't be possible if it weren't for our commitment to a strong economy". All finished off with a confident nod that suggests he's answered the question and has more important things to do.

You forgot to mention 'hard-working families'. Some politician you'd make!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Must say the "engine room" bit really cracked me up. I wonder if their "journalists" or whoever they claim to be quoting still use typewriters.

It didn't crack me up because they are absolutely clueless with poor research and make up crap.Trouble is the punters lap this crap up.

 

[londonbridge]

Has the opposite ever occurred? Has a driver ever stopped and released doors when they are not booked to stop at a station (this would be truly weird!!)

Depends if you count Southern stopping at Selhurst to let staff/crew members on or off when the train is not being advertised as calling there. I remember one case where the train stopped, a passenger went to get on/off (can't remember which) and the guard told him he couldn't do so, to which said passenger threatened to report the guard and driver for making an unauthorised stop.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

A few years ago in Germany, there were quite a few instances when ICE drivers simply forgot to stop at Wolfsburg Hbf station (and others), despite ICE trains being fully staffed with train manager, conductor etc.

 

[tsr]

Depends if you count Southern stopping at Selhurst to let staff/crew members on or off when the train is not being advertised as calling there. I remember one case where the train stopped, a passenger went to get on/off (can't remember which) and the guard told him he couldn't do so, to which said passenger threatened to report the guard and driver for making an unauthorised stop.

Staff stops are different. There are dozens of stops at Selhurst and Norwood Junction, usually (but not always) in the working timetable, which are not advertised, but they are entirely authorised. This is for two reasons: firstly, the train can divert via the other of the pair without replacement transport needing to be provided for passengers, as there shouldn't be any (staff can walk through the depot, which takes 12-15mins ish). Secondly, the stations may not be open for passenger use, in particular Norwood Junction, which may not even have dispatch staff on duty or the gates open.

A staff stop is specifically defined by a diagram or stop order (on paper / from the signaller etc.).

Other staff stops on passenger trains exist, such as at Redhill and many of the Metro area stations, but as many of those stations don't have a nominated alternative and/or have 24/7 staffing, it's not such a problem if people alight. There are also dedicated staff trains via Barnham, from Brighton, and in the West Croydon area, which are not available to the public at all.

It's exceedingly rare for passenger trains to make staff stops and just end up with all the doors open without authorisation. But other than that, if passengers complain and threaten to report you, there's rarely anything you can do to prevent them hopping out and wandering off, but it doesn't mean the reporting of staff will have negative consequences. All it means is that some silly soul will find themselves having to work out that they are in fact trapped on a platform until half past five in the morning... and the CCTV team will have an entertaining time watching...

 

[GW43125]

I was on a 185 once that braked too late for a peak extra call. We ended up with only the rear carriage on the platform, driver and guard apologised profusely about it before we set back. When we got to the next stop and I got off, the look on the poor driver's face, he looked like he was absolutely s--tting himself. Thankfully nobody had a go at him as after all, we're human and make mistakes.

 

[bahnause]

I was on a 185 once that braked too late for a peak extra call. We ended up with only the rear carriage on the platform, driver and guard apologised profusely about it before we set back. When we got to the next stop and I got off, the look on the poor driver's face, he looked like he was absolutely s--tting himself. Thankfully nobody had a go at him as after all, we're human and make mistakes.

Our rule is not to stop at all if you can't stop with the whole train at the platform. It leads to dangerous situations, passengers might use the emergency door release and end up on the tracks.