EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments

[43096]

We're all aware of that, and plenty of ex EMT 156's are around with Northern, so the idea that they are beyond use is loblocks

It's the DfT we aim to expose.

You are barking up the wrong tree...

EMR had 21 x 153 and 24 x 156 sets (69 vehicles).
They have been replaced by 27 2-car and 16 3-car 170s (102 vehicles).

Perhaps need to look at how many of those sets are in traffic each day? Your solution of throwing more trains at it is probably not going to work if there is a pinchpoint on maintenance - you just end up with more trains broken and waiting repairs.

 

[LowLevel]

We're all aware of that, and plenty of ex EMT 156's are around with Northern, so the idea that they are beyond use is loblocks

It's the DfT we aim to expose.

Different owners and different exam schedules. They're all rotten having not had the bodywork done when the rest of the fleet did and they also aren't fitted with wheel slide protection.

 

[43102EMR]

Overcrowded two carriage services all over EMR, yet they have 156's languishing in sidings at Ely.

What a shambolic situation.

As others have said, those 156s were an absolute state - apparently beyond economic repair, hence why they went straight to storage rather than re-enter service with Northern for example.

 

[dk1]

As others have said, those 156s were an absolute state - apparently beyond economic repair, hence why they went straight to storage rather than re-enter service with Northern for example.

Totally this.

 

[Dood75]

What looked at quick glance on Wednesday 3/9 was a second 158 outside Bristol Barton Hill in the EMR purple livery assumed complete and ready for dispatch back to service

 

[DannyMich2018]

You are barking up the wrong tree...

EMR had 21 x 153 and 24 x 156 sets (69 vehicles).
They have been replaced by 27 2-car and 16 3-car 170s (102 vehicles).

Perhaps need to look at how many of those sets are in traffic each day? Your solution of throwing more trains at it is probably not going to work if there is a pinchpoint on maintenance - you just end up with more trains broken and waiting repairs.

In a recent edition of Today's Railways UK it was stated EMR only diagram about 30 out of 43 170s daily- last Thursday I went passed Eastcroft at lunch time on the way to Skeggy and there were plenty of 170s there so correct, maybe some could go to Northern who struggle more.

 

[Kite159]

..

In a recent edition of Today's Railways UK it was stated EMR only diagram about 30 out of 43 170s daily- last Thursday I went passed Eastcroft at lunch time on the way to Skeggy and there were plenty of 170s there so correct, maybe some could go to Northern who struggle more.

Although how many of those 170s at Eastcroft are available for traffic and not stopped due to various faults?

Northern have enough units, they are like a black hole

 

[liamf656]

Although how many of those 170s at Eastcroft are available for traffic and not stopped due to various faults?

Northern have enough units, they are like a black hole.

Too right. Taking rolling stock away from EMR would be a bonkers idea!!

 

[43096]

In a recent edition of Today's Railways UK it was stated EMR only diagram about 30 out of 43 170s daily- last Thursday I went passed Eastcroft at lunch time on the way to Skeggy and there were plenty of 170s there so correct, maybe some could go to Northern who struggle more.

There’s the issue. Allowing for three units stopped for refurbishment/damage repairs, 75% availability is poor - they should be getting at least 80-85%.

 

[43102EMR]

Does anyone know whether the ex-GA/TfW 170/2s will receive a repaint as part of their refurbishment? AFAIK they were all vinyled as opposed to repainted like the others

 

[Trainman40083]

Too right. Taking rolling stock away from EMR would be a bonkers idea!!

But I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

 

[QSK19]

Overcrowded two carriage services all over EMR, yet they have 156's languishing in sidings at Ely.

What a shambolic situation.

Following on from what others have said, they’re knackered. I remember travelling in one of them and got very efficient air conditioning from holes in the shell!

 

[E B]

Does anyone know whether the ex-GA/TfW 170/2s will receive a repaint as part of their refurbishment? AFAIK they were all vinyled as opposed to repainted like the others

170201 - 205, and 170270 - 273 have full EMR livery

 

[RailWonderer]

Following on from what others have said, they’re knackered. I remember travelling in one of them and got very efficient air conditioning from holes in the shell!

It's environmentally friendly aircon, it just works when you don't need it and doesn't work when you do.

 

[liamf656]

170201 - 205, and 170270 - 273 have full EMR livery

I think you misunderstand. The question was whether they'd be painted as they're currently vinyled

 

[Fokx]

I think you misunderstand. The question was whether they'd be painted as they're currently vinyled

Why would they need to be painted if they're in full livery vinyl? The DfT wouldn't fund that

 

[adc82140]

As others have said, those 156s were an absolute state - apparently beyond economic repair, hence why they went straight to storage rather than re-enter service with Northern for example.

I wonder what the reason is for storing them all this time, at cost to somebody, rather than sending them for scrap?

 

[dk1]

I wonder what the reason is for storing them all this time, at cost to somebody, rather than sending them for scrap?

I often wonder that. I remember it being quoted as around £25 per vehicle per day in that part of Potters Group sidings. They’ve been in there for years now.

 

[E B]

I think you misunderstand. The question was whether they'd be painted as they're currently vinyled

Ah. My mistake.

 

[Russel]

Does anyone know whether the ex-GA/TfW 170/2s will receive a repaint as part of their refurbishment? AFAIK they were all vinyled as opposed to repainted like the others

Ah that explains why the ex-TFW sets I saw around Sheffield this time last year had random elements of EMR purple, screen wash filler covers, front vallance under the cab etc, I did wonder at the time what the reason was, it must have been prep prior to being vinyled!

 

[yorksrob]

You are barking up the wrong tree...

EMR had 21 x 153 and 24 x 156 sets (69 vehicles).
They have been replaced by 27 2-car and 16 3-car 170s (102 vehicles).

Perhaps need to look at how many of those sets are in traffic each day? Your solution of throwing more trains at it is probably not going to work if there is a pinchpoint on maintenance - you just end up with more trains broken and waiting repairs.

Pinch points do need to be sorted out. If there are so many more sets, it seems odd that there are still so many short forms.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==

As others have said, those 156s were an absolute state - apparently beyond economic repair, hence why they went straight to storage rather than re-enter service with Northern for example.

Given that we generally don't have enough DMU's in this country to meet passenger demand, the concept of "beyond economic repair" seems a bit extravagent.

 

[43102EMR]

Given that we generally don't have enough DMU's in this country to meet passenger demand, the concept of "beyond economic repair" seems a bit extravagent.

Not when they’re almost 40 years old…

 

[bunnahabhain]

Pinch points do need to be sorted out. If there are so many more sets, it seems odd that there are still so many short forms.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==

The industry is still suffering from the wheelset issue, and that's a Europewide issue, the problem for 158s is that actually in the grand scheme of things if EMR need 100 wheelsets and the factory in space produces 100,000 wheelsets a year, EMR are a tiny customer and their loyalty isn't worth as much as say FS, OBB or DB. Ukraine continues to provide supply chain issues as I understand that's where a lot of wheelsets for 158s used to come from, and the slack hasn't been picked up by other manufacturers yet, and Putin hasn't gone back into his own borders.

To add some further context, this issue means that there are still in theory 3 x Class 158s at EMR that are out of use on the balance sheet for long term unit diagramming. Combine that with 1 x 170 on refurb, and 2 x 158 on refurb thats 6 units down before you've got normal maintenance allowance.

 

[yorksrob]

Not when they’re almost 40 years old…

There's an old saying - beggars can't be choosers - particularly if we're not going to be building new DMU's for a while.

To be fair to the second generation DMU's they arrive at their 40'th birthdays in a better condition than their predecessors from what I see.

The industry is still suffering from the wheelset issue, and that's a Europewide issue, the problem for 158s is that actually in the grand scheme of things if EMR need 100 wheelsets and the factory in space produces 100,000 wheelsets a year, EMR are a tiny customer and their loyalty isn't worth as much as say FS, OBB or DB. Ukraine continues to provide supply chain issues as I understand that's where a lot of wheelsets for 158s used to come from, and the slack hasn't been picked up by other manufacturers yet, and Putin hasn't gone back into his own borders.

To add some further context, this issue means that there are still in theory 3 x Class 158s at EMR that are out of use on the balance sheet for long term unit diagramming. Combine that with 1 x 170 on refurb, and 2 x 158 on refurb thats 6 units down before you've got normal maintenance allowance.

That's interesting background, thanks. I'm generally keen for the country not to outsource too much, but putting some business the way to allies is also desirable. Ukraine's manufacturing capabilities will understandably be concentrated elsewhere currently, so it's unfortunate if the British manufacturing base doesn't have the capacity to step in for the 158's.

It's also interesting to reflect that individual ROSCO's probably don't have the market presence of a state entity.

As with a lot of these issues, 3D printing seems to be capable of producing a lot of stuff, including weaponry. Why not train parts ?

 

[Trainman40083]

I wonder how many TOCs use Lucchini Unipart Rail , in Manchester for wheelsets?

 

[bunnahabhain]

There's an old saying - beggars can't be choosers - particularly if we're not going to be building new DMU's for a while.

To be fair to the second generation DMU's they arrive at their 40'th birthdays in a better condition than their predecessors from what I see.



That's interesting background, thanks. I'm generally keen for the country not to outsource too much, but putting some business the way to allies is also desirable. Ukraine's manufacturing capabilities will understandably be concentrated elsewhere currently, so it's unfortunate if the British manufacturing base doesn't have the capacity to step in for the 158's.

It's also interesting to reflect that individual ROSCO's probably don't have the market presence of a state entity.

As with a lot of these issues, 3D printing seems to be capable of producing a lot of stuff, including weaponry. Why not train parts ?

There's also an "axle refurbishment factory" in South Wales which lost its roof in Storm Whatever last year/this year which didn't help.

 

[yorksrob]

There's also an "axle refurbishment factory" in South Wales which lost its roof in Storm Whatever last year/this year which didn't help.

Should be a necessity of King and Country to get the roof on again.

Communist China will be laughing.

 

[AJDesiro]

As with a lot of these issues, 3D printing seems to be capable of producing a lot of stuff, including weaponry. Why not train parts ?

It has been used in the past, Chiltern do/did it for 165 seat spares: https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/3D-printed-train-parts

Chiltern Railways trials the UK’s first 3D printed train parts​

Chiltern Railways has become the first UK train operator to trial 3D printed parts on in-service passenger trains. The launch of this exiting and innovative trial. Chiltern has joined forces with Angel Trains, one of Britain’s leading train leasing companies, 3D printing leader Stratasys and engineering consultancy DB ESG to produce several printed parts including passenger armrests and grab handles which have now been installed on trains.

The trial’s success to date demonstrates how 3D printing can help train operators accelerate the replacement of obsolete parts, enabling them to get vehicles back into service quicker and better maintain their trains – improving the quality of service for customers. The lead time for conventional manufacturing methods is around four months for armrests and two and a half months for grab handles. However with 3D printing, the armrests were produced within a week and the seven grab handles taking three weeks.

3D printing has a much quicker turnaround and is more cost-effective than traditional manufacturing methods. With much of the Chiltern fleet approaching 30 years old, it is vital to be able to source the parts we need as quickly as possible. This trial will play a part in maintaining Chiltern’s industry-leading customer satisfaction scores.

 

[Trainman40083]

Looks like 170504 is heading back from Crewe LNWR to Etches Park today.

 

[43055]

And 505 is showing as heading to Crewe this afternoon

Realtime Trains | 5K70 1458 Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 21/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 5K70 1458 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 21/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk