EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments

[WesternLancer]

They're about the same.

It's quite a heavy job stripping everything out and renewing everything from the seats to the PIS to the WiFi.

Crewe are doing an EMR 170, an XC 170 and a Chiltern 168 at the same time plus whatever else they've got on so they're actually knocking things out pretty quickly.

It's forecast to take another 2 to 3 years to do all the 170s.

Thanks. Info appreciated!

 

[Jacob Porrett]

They're about the same.

It's quite a heavy job stripping everything out and renewing everything from the seats to the PIS to the WiFi.

Crewe are doing an EMR 170, an XC 170 and a Chiltern 168 at the same time plus whatever else they've got on so they're actually knocking things out pretty quickly.

It's forecast to take another 2 to 3 years to do all the 170s.

That's pretty much what we do at Crewe. Sometimes a Northern 158 as well.

 

[Trainman40083]

Good news that 170505 is now back and 170506 has now gone for refurbishment but progress is still so slow. I remember travelling on the newly refurbished 170501 from Leicester to Nottingham at the end of May. Six months have now passed since then and only 4 more have been refurbished. Hopefully things will begin to speed up soon otherwise it’s going to take a good few years complete them all especially if the 3 car sets take even longer.

Trouble is, there are few spare units to run services whilst the overhauls are taking place. I guess even if there were 5 spare Class 170 sets, they would be different to EMR ones, as operators have modified them.

 

[LowLevel]

Trouble is, there are few spare units to run services whilst the overhauls are taking place. I guess even if there were 5 spare Class 170 sets, they would be different to EMR ones, as operators have modified them.

The problem isn't spare units - on paper EMR have plenty of spares - it's the maintenance capability and stabling to keep them all in traffic that's always the issue.

 

[InTheEastMids]

It's forecast to take another 2 to 3 years to do all the 170s.

Plus a grand total of 0/21 of the Class 360 have been completed - will that process be any quicker?
I notice that the new Siemens workshop that I understand they've built primarily to deliver refurbishments can take two trains at once.

A local MP has put out a video from the opening ceremony, which is linked below. Description: It shows a 2 track shed containing EMR 360107 and LNWR 350103. There are various shots of ribbon-cutting, people talking about the project and some video taken from what I assume is the interior of 360107. The interior is still heavily stripped out - not seats or carpets yet, and wall/ceiling panels are missing, so it looks like it'll be some time before 360107 is back in service, and unclear whether Siemens will be able to use both tracks in the new workshop to work on two EMR units simultaneously. I have attached a screenshot below that shows the interior of (presumed) 360107, and various people in hi-vis having a discussion.

7.7K views · 62 reactions | The new Siemens Multi-Functional Centre in #Northampton is open! ✂️ | Lucy Rigby KC MP

The new Siemens Multi-Functional Centre in #Northampton is open! ✂️

www.facebook.com

 

[LowLevel]

Plus a grand total of 0/21 of the Class 360 have been completed - will that process be any quicker?
I notice that the new Siemens workshop that I understand they've built primarily to deliver refurbishments can take two trains at once.

A local MP has put out a video from the opening ceremony, which is linked below. Description: It shows a 2 track shed containing EMR 360107 and LNWR 350103. There are various shots of ribbon-cutting, people talking about the project and some video taken from what I assume is the interior of 360107. The interior is still heavily stripped out - not seats or carpets yet, and wall/ceiling panels are missing, so it looks like it'll be some time before 360107 is back in service, and unclear whether Siemens will be able to use both tracks in the new workshop to work on two EMR units simultaneously. I have attached a screenshot below that shows the interior of (presumed) 360107, and various people in hi-vis having a discussion.


View attachment 192390

7.7K views · 62 reactions | The new Siemens Multi-Functional Centre in #Northampton is open! ✂️ | Lucy Rigby KC MP

The new Siemens Multi-Functional Centre in #Northampton is open! ✂️

www.facebook.com

The 360s are meant to be quicker, but the latest update I've heard on 107 is that the usual issue of more corrosion than expected had been found and so they are having to rectify that too.

 

[QSK19]

The 360s are meant to be quicker, but the latest update I've heard on 107 is that the usual issue of more corrosion than expected had been found and so they are having to rectify that too.

Symbolic of EMR and corrosion going hand in hand. Not the first example of getting cascaded stock and ending up in this situation: ex-LNER HSTs and 156/9s beforehand.

Ah well, it takes as long as it takes, I suppose!

 

[Nottingham59]

Symbolic of EMR and corrosion going hand in hand. Not the first example of getting cascaded stock and ending up in this situation: ex-LNER HSTs and 156/9s beforehand.

Ah well, it takes as long as it takes, I suppose!

It's a symptom of the ToC/train leasing model. The operator who is giving up a train has every incentive to ignore / not mention any advanced corrosion, and thereby offload the expense of dealing with it to the next leasing ToC in the queue.

 

[Railwaycat]

Very smart and shows that the 158 can still look good after all these years!

And I’m pleased they’ve kept the Grammer seats too.

They might look good with the lighter colour making the coach look brighter, but there's still a lack of 4x bays - really bad for groups/families travelling together. I also find the headrests too wide combined with the high seat back, which makes the experience of sitting in the majority of the seats a bit claustrophobic. The tapered/narrower seat headrests/seat backs on the 195's are far better.

 

[43096]

It's a symptom of the ToC/train leasing model. The operator who is giving up a train has every incentive to ignore / not mention any advanced corrosion, and thereby offload the expense of dealing with it to the next leasing ToC in the queue.

Which is why the ROSCOs conduct handback exams. How intrusive they are is open to question.

It also depends on the contract(s) as to who pays. On a dry lease (where the operator does everything) you might think the "new" TOC might be on the hook, but we don't know if there is a contract clause on legacy issues that are found. On soggy and wet leases, the ROSCO is on the hook anyway.

 

[43102EMR]

It's a symptom of the ToC/train leasing model. The operator who is giving up a train has every incentive to ignore / not mention any advanced corrosion, and thereby offload the expense of dealing with it to the next leasing ToC in the queue.

A bit ironic considering both TOCs at the time had the same majority owner!

 

[Mariner16]

158866 was back in service this morning which puts EMR to 2 x 158s out.
799/783 making progress, 799 being done at Eastcroft but still weeks away.
773/852 next in.

 

[CR165022]

Are some 158s just getting their interiors done for now while another gets a full refurbishment? Or are all the ones being done currently getting the full works?

 

[43102EMR]

Are some 158s just getting their interiors done for now while another gets a full refurbishment? Or are all the ones being done currently getting the full works?

My understanding is the Porterbrook units are only having their interiors done at Nottingham Eastcroft whilst the Angel Trains units are also getting repainted whilst having work done at Bristol. Happy to be corrected though!

 

[Mariner16]

My understanding is the Porterbrook units are only having their interiors done at Nottingham Eastcroft whilst the Angel Trains units are also getting repainted whilst having work done at Bristol. Happy to be corrected though!

Believe that's correct.

 

[tfw756rider]

Just to be clear (as I'm obviously not too familiar with East Midlands Railway / EMR), are the 158s that are "only getting interior refurbishments for now" the ones in the EMR "outgoing" livery, and are the 158s that are also being repainted the ones that are/were still in (EMR Regional-branded) East Midlands Trains livery?

 

[CR165022]

There's only 2 in the outgoing livery, all of the ones that have gone in so far (either for full refurb or just interior) are ex emt liveried ones.

 

[tfw756rider]

There's only 2 in the outgoing livery, all of the ones that have gone in so far (either for full refurb or just interior) are ex emt liveried ones.

Interesting, thanks. The idea of a new interior, old livery unit (even if temporary) seems a bit strange (although I do get the whole "the interior is the place where people will actually be" thing).

 

[43055]

Just to be clear (as I'm obviously not too familiar with East Midlands Railway / EMR), are the 158s that are "only getting interior refurbishments for now" the ones in the EMR "outgoing" livery, and are the 158s that are also being repainted the ones that are/were still in (EMR Regional-branded) East Midlands Trains livery?

Sounds like a mix of both with units being done at Bristol having interior and exterior done whilst Nottingham it is just interior. Only 773/774 are in 'outgoing' livery so any others done at Nottingham will still have EMT on the outside by the sounds of things.

 

[LowLevel]

I suspect it's a matter of due dates for work and warranties. The Porterbrook sets (the ex TPE ones) were painted more recently than the Angel sets which are probably due a repaint on their maintenance schedule anyway. That's why 773 and 774 came out in plain white. With the vehicles (theoretically) having a finite life span (withdrawal 2030 mooted) they are only going to spend money when they have to.

 

[tfw756rider]

Sounds like a mix of both with units being done at Bristol having interior and exterior done whilst Nottingham it is just interior. Only 773/774 are in 'outgoing' livery so any others done at Nottingham will still have EMT on the outside by the sounds of things.

I suspect it's a matter of due dates for work and warranties. The Porterbrook sets (the ex TPE ones) were painted more recently than the Angel sets which are probably due a repaint on their maintenance schedule anyway. That's why 773 and 774 came out in plain white. With the vehicles (theoretically) having a finite life span (withdrawal 2030 mooted) they are only going to spend money when they have to.

Thanks both

 

[WesternLancer]

Interesting, thanks. The idea of a new interior, old livery unit (even if temporary) seems a bit strange (although I do get the whole "the interior is the place where people will actually be" thing).

I find it a bit odd that DfT doesn’t specify a GBR livery now on all repaints. I mean if they want to show the avg passenger they are doing something they need to make a statement.

From other parts of the forum and general conversation most members of the public have no idea various operations are already in govt hands. Even if EMR aren’t yet.

 

[adc82140]

But as GBR isn't a thing yet, the legislation not having cleared parliament at this point (initially laid before parliament on 5th Nov I think) , we're way off a livery even being designed.

Personally I think initially at least, East Midlands Railway will become an operating division of GBR, with a base purple livery.

 

[WesternLancer]

But as GBR isn't a thing yet, the legislation not having cleared parliament at this point (initially laid before parliament on 5th Nov I think) , we're way off a livery even being

Well
Maybe. But DfT can specify everything else already or so it seems so I’m not buying that really.

 

[Bald Rick]

I find it a bit odd that DfT doesn’t specify a GBR livery now on all repaints. I mean if they want to show the avg passenger they are doing something they need to make a statement.

That will happen.

But for what I think are obvious reasons, not yet.

The obvious reasons being that GBR is not a thing yet, and DfT will not want to launch GBR as a live brand until certain things are sorted out first.

 

[WesternLancer]

That will happen.

But for what I think are obvious reasons, not yet.

The obvious reasons being that GBR is not a thing yet, and DfT will not want to launch GBR as a live brand until vertain things are sorted out first.

I ought to bow to better knowledge than my own! Thanks. And to @adc82140 also.

 

[Bald Rick]

I ought to bow to better knowledge than my own! Thanks. And to @adc82140 also.

no worries!

and to pick up on one more thing…

we're way off a livery even being designed.

 

[JD2168]

Picture of 158866 in service in Sheffield on 28/11/25 - was coupled to unrefurbished 158856. The seats & tables on interior had been redone

 

[tfw756rider]

Picture of 158866 in service in Sheffield on 28/11/25 - was coupled to unrefurbished 158856. The seats & tables on interior had been redone

Thanks for sharing

 

[The_Train]

How many of the EMR 158s are now in purple?