EMR Class 360's

[Maddog83]

Exciting times.

 

[Snow1964]

Perhaps it’s just me, but that 360 is a Royal Blue colour, but I thought EMT had opted for a purple colour, as per its website

Is the intention to paint different fleets different colours ?

 

[Domh245]

Perhaps it’s just me, but that 360 is a Royal Blue colour, but I thought EMT had opted for a purple colour, as per its website

Is the intention to paint different fleets different colours ?

It's still in the GA livery (itself, the old first group 'barbie' livery without all the vinyls) - it'll be repainted purple in due course

 

[OTRail]

Been said elsewhere that the Class 360s are being uprated for 110mph.

The Class 360s will run at 110mph between Corby and Bedford but are limited to 100mph between Bedford and St Pancras.

I know this, but when in 12 carriage formation will they be limited to 100mph like the GWR 387s when they run as 12 car units?

 

[59CosG95]

I know this, but when in 12 carriage formation will they be limited to 100mph like the GWR 387s when they run as 12 car units?

That all rather depends on the speed limits listed in the Sectional Appendix. I wouldn't expect it to change until the OLE is upgraded to cope with 3 pantographs at speeds of over 100mph too.

 

[edwin_m]

That all rather depends on the speed limits listed in the Sectional Appendix. I wouldn't expect it to change until the OLE is upgraded to cope with 3 pantographs at speeds of over 100mph too.

I think the discussion on the electrification established that the new OLE north of Bedford is designed and tested for three pans at 110mph (or two at 125mph). I guess the same will apply further south, but not until the upgrade is completed.

 

[Domh245]

I think the discussion on the electrification established that the new OLE north of Bedford is designed and tested for three pans at 110mph (or two at 125mph). I guess the same will apply further south, but not until the upgrade is completed.

That makes it all the more surprising to hear about the 100mph blanket restriction for 3x GWRs 387s, despite Series 1's notorious ruggedness and higher tension

If the MML scheme has delivered a better system at reduced cost, then it really reflects poorly on GWEP

 

[Ethan1852]

360 103 is the unit which is moving today. https://twitter.com/13milepost/status/1326507952824528896

EDIT- 360 103 has now left Ilford E.M.U.D with 50007 and 50049

 

[Chris125]

I know this, but when in 12 carriage formation will they be limited to 100mph like the GWR 387s when they run as 12 car units?

Is that true? I wasn't aware of such a restriction for the GWR units.

 

[OTRail]

I read it in another thread - it said something about restrictions being in place for 12 car 387s meaning they can’t operate above 100mph. I doubt the same will happen for the 360s though if they’re supposed to keep similar to Meridian timings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2020 ==

360103 has now been delivered to EMR.

 

[Ethan1852]

360103 is now at Cricklewood U.G.L.

 

[59CosG95]

I read it in another thread - it said something about restrictions being in place for 12 car 387s meaning they can’t operate above 100mph. I doubt the same will happen for the 360s though if they’re supposed to keep similar to Meridian timings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2020 ==

360103 has now been delivered to EMR.

Reading the Western SA, Table D2A (Pages 498O & 499), 387s are restricted to 100mph no further west than Stockley Bridge Jn, which must mean the limitations are part of the legacy Mk3 OLE still in place.

Padd - OOC West is max 100mph anyway, ditto OOC West - Acton East. After 4m 40ch (Down Main) & 4m 60ch (Up Main) the limits on the GWML Mains shift to 125 for the rest of the route in London.
Perhaps it's an operating rule imposed by GWR for the 387s across the board?

 

[Domh245]

Reading the Western SA, Table D2A (Pages 498O & 499), 387s are restricted to 100mph no further west than Stockley Bridge Jn, which must mean the limitations are part of the legacy Mk3 OLE still in place.
View attachment 85733

Discussion in this (admittedly) old thread mentions the 100mph restrictions in 12 car formation, but also does note that particular restriction may be removed in the future

 

[59CosG95]

Discussion in this (admittedly) old thread mentions the 100mph restrictions in 12 car formation, but also does note that particular restriction may be removed in the future

Looking at a drivers' eye view of the GWML, the Mk3c(?) OLE has in parts been superseded by mechanically independent structures, particularly at crossovers (Acton East nr Ealing Bway, Southall East, Southall West, Hayes East), which represent a bigger dewirement risk than "open route" OLE. Overlaps also represent a significant risk, but not as much as crossovers; overlaps have a 250mm contact wire height difference (and 460mm contact stagger difference), while crossovers' stagger separation varies with the point opening value.
When a crossover wire run is "in-running" (above the track and designed to collect current), it's generally only 20mm above the level of the other wires; as such, more set-up precision is needed/desired than with an overlap.

At lower OLE tensions (Mk3 is 11/11; Series 1 is 13/16.5 IIRC*), there's also a larger risk of the force in the pans causing oscillation in the contact. With more pans, and close spacing between said pans, and higher speed, the greater the dewirement risk.

*Tensions in kN.

 

[Domh245]

True as that all is, the 100mph 12 car restriction did seem to be universal by my reading, meaning even the super duper Series 1 kit west of Stockley Bridge wasn't up to scratch! It was suggested in that thread that it needed some time to bed in (!) before doing 110mph 3 pantograph operation. It'd be handy if one of those in the know at GWR could confirm the current situation

 

[Railperf]

True as that all is, the 100mph 12 car restriction did seem to be universal by my reading, meaning even the super duper Series 1 kit west of Stockley Bridge wasn't up to scratch! It was suggested in that thread that it needed some time to bed in (!) before doing 110mph 3 pantograph operation. It'd be handy if one of those in the know at GWR could confirm the current situation

Can anyone clarify the above @Clarence Yard?

 

[Siemens Staines]

1D90 is usually a 12-car 387 and it is timed 7 minutes from passing Slough to passing Twyford. I am not a performance expert, but a back of an envelope calculation suggests that this is more than 100mph?

Realtime Trains - 1D90 1643 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43096]

1D90 is usually a 12-car 387 and it is timed 7 minutes from passing Slough to passing Twyford. I am not a performance expert, but a back of an envelope calculation suggests that this is more than 100mph?

Realtime Trains - 1D90 1643 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Slough to Twyford is 12 miles 45 chains, I believe, so with a 7min timing, that gives an average speed of around 108mph. Certainly substantially over 100mph, anyway.

 

[Class 170101]

The schedule says its timed at 110mph if it was 100mph maximum speed it would have been timed at 100mph surely?

 

[221101 Voyager]

The schedule says its timed at 110mph if it was 100mph maximum speed it would have been timed at 100mph surely?

Even if a schedule says 100mph some drivers probably push it a little further to say 102 perhaps? EMR drivers of the 360's will probably do this without knowing as the cab will be much quieter than a 222!

 

[59CosG95]

Slough to Twyford is 12 miles 45 chains, I believe, so with a 7min timing, that gives an average speed of around 108mph. Certainly substantially over 100mph, anyway.

A GWR acquaintance of mine (who I know is passed out on 387s) said that the limit was removed for 3x 387 at 100mph last year, including east of Stockley. I suspect that has something to do with the fact that all the crossovers on the Mains (at linespeeds above 100) are now independently registered east of Stockley.

But all this, while useful for GWML discourse, has little to do with operating 3x 360s on the MML at 110mph!

Assuming the same methodology of "new structures over existing crossovers" is what will be used to upgrade the OLE south of Bedford, the following junctions will need to be 'portalised':

• Silkstream (added in - first junction where 110/HST125 differentials exist on the Mains)
• Radlett
• Harpenden
• Luton South
• Luton North
• Leagrave
• Flitwick
• Bedford South

 

[pompeyfan]

Even if a schedule says 100mph some drivers probably push it a little further to say 102 perhaps? EMR drivers of the 360's will probably do this without knowing as the cab will be much quieter than a 222!

absolutely not, speeding is taken very seriously. There may be a slight discrepancy between the OTMR, the TMS and the physical Speedo and there may be brief lapses in concentration but very few drivers would intentionally speed.

 

[221101 Voyager]

absolutely not, speeding is taken very seriously. There may be a slight discrepancy between the OTMR, the TMS and the physical Speedo and there may be brief lapses in concentration but very few drivers would intentionally speed.

Fair enough, I was only joking!

Is there another 360 coming to Cricklewood today? It's in the schedule and so it should hopefully run if there is not any breakdowns that is!

 

[OTRail]

The last movements over the past few days have been running with little to no issues so hopefully today’s will be the same.

 

[221101 Voyager]

The last movements over the past few days have been running with little to no issues so hopefully today’s will be the same.

Hopefully it will come as I am going to see it today! Does anyone know which unit it will be yet?

 

[OTRail]

Hopefully it will come as I am going to see it today! Does anyone know which unit it will be yet?

Yesterday’s move was a bit annoying - instead of going through the main platform at Cricklewood it went through the side track with fencing next to platform 1

 

[221101 Voyager]

Yesterday’s move was a bit annoying - instead of going through the main platform at Cricklewood it went through the side track with fencing next to platform 1

Wonder if West Hampstead TL will be a better choice to avoid this from happening?

After all my train will go to WH TL before having to get on one that goes back to Cricklewood. So I may opt for WH TL instead.

 

[OTRail]

I’ve been to Cricklewood the past few days as the locos will be going slower to get into the depot, but I’m not sure - depends on timings against the Thameslink services as well because it’ll be going through the slow lines.

 

[221101 Voyager]

I’ve been to Cricklewood the past few days as the locos will be going slower to get into the depot, but I’m not sure - depends on timings against the Thameslink services as well because it’ll be going through the slow lines.

I'll stick with Cricklewood then. Is the fence on p1 high as if the train does go behind it can it still be photographed?

 

[OTRail]

I'll stick with Cricklewood then. Is the fence on p1 high as if the train does go behind it can it still be photographed?

What I did (at the last minute!) was go to the end of platform 1 towards Cricklewood sidings and managed to get a good enough shot of the drag. But it depends again on which platform it eventually goes through.