Edinburgh Tram developments

[InOban]

That's a good point, typically at that time I'm only going part-route and not to a place that has both a bus and tram stop.
I think tourists tend to go for the tram in any case.

You must be going to Gyle, Edinburgh Park or Saughton, then. But for the vast majority the Airlink 100 will be quicker and runs all night. Whether, when the extension opens there will be sufficient demand for travel to Leith to extend the operating hours, I don't know, but it's more likely that the Skylink200 starts running 24hr.

 

[Winthorpe]

Did they used to run a limited service through the night, or have I got it confused with something TPE did?

Trams have never run through the night.
TPE used to run a limited service through the night. Don’t think they have done so since Covid though.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

You must be going to Gyle, Edinburgh Park or Saughton, then. But for the vast majority the Airlink 100 will be quicker and runs all night. Whether, when the extension opens there will be sufficient demand for travel to Leith to extend the operating hours, I don't know, but it's more likely that the Skylink200 starts running 24hr.

All night Skylink’s can’t be far away. The introduction of an earlier morning journey last year on each of the 200 and 400 shows that there’s definitely demand for it. The Trams meanwhile have never seemed like it, and would be unnecessary in my view while the 100 is running all night.

I thought originally the N22 was seen as the night cover for the Tram, no? Obviously since COVID that has been scaled back.

You could make an argument to say that not running the Trams all night means engineering work can be done during these hours, thus keeping closures to a minimum. In fact, I don’t think there’s ever been a closure due to pre-planned engineering work. Instead just partial suspensions to allow the extension to be added on.

 

[eoff]

I know that many here (including myself) understand the tradeoffs with the trams against the Airlink 100.

I do feel however that visitors just assume the tram is 'better' and are dissappointed when they find the service has finished and that is not a great start to their experience of Edinburgh. Even if the bus turns out to be just as good an option to their destination.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I know that many here (including myself) understand the tradeoffs with the trams against the Airlink 100.

I do feel however that visitors just assume the tram is 'better' and are dissappointed when they find the service has finished and that is not a great start to their experience of Edinburgh. Even if the bus turns out to be just as good an option to their destination.

The majority of tourists I see think the non existent railway line is the best option and many are amazed that we don’t have one. The cancellation of that very project is how we ended up with the tram line, Edinburgh Gateway Station and this whole confusing mess.

 

[och aye]

All night Skylink’s can’t be far away. The introduction of an earlier morning journey last year on each of the 200 and 400 shows that there’s definitely demand for it. The Trams meanwhile have never seemed like it, and would be unnecessary in my view while the 100 is running all night.

I thought originally the N22 was seen as the night cover for the Tram, no? Obviously since COVID that has been scaled back.

You could make an argument to say that not running the Trams all night means engineering work can be done during these hours, thus keeping closures to a minimum. In fact, I don’t think there’s ever been a closure due to pre-planned engineering work. Instead just partial suspensions to allow the extension to be added on.

That reminds me of a friend of mine who had one to many a tipple and fell asleep on the N22 and woke up at the airport stop. The driver took pity on him and let him stay on the return back into the city.

It'll be interesting to see when the completion of the original line is up and running if there will be plans to run the trams earlier in the morning and indeed later in the evening. I certainly think there is an argument to run trams from the airport beyond Edinburgh Gateway after 11pm to Leith.

 

[VioletEclipse]

I realise that this is not the right thread to talk about the 1871-1956 Edinburgh Trams, as this is about the current trams. However, if it's ok to ask, I was wondering if there are good websites, books, or something of the like about the tram network between 1871 and roughly 1940? There are quite a lot of resources and information about the original trams, although almost all of it seems to focus on just the last 7 years (1950-1956) with few exceptions. I am currently trying to research a bit about the network and vehicles of the system before then, was just wondering if anyone knows any good resources?

 

[route101]

All night Skylink’s can’t be far away. The introduction of an earlier morning journey last year on each of the 200 and 400 shows that there’s definitely demand for it. The Trams meanwhile have never seemed like it, and would be unnecessary in my view while the 100 is running all night.

I thought originally the N22 was seen as the night cover for the Tram, no? Obviously since COVID that has been scaled back.

You could make an argument to say that not running the Trams all night means engineering work can be done during these hours, thus keeping closures to a minimum. In fact, I don’t think there’s ever been a closure due to pre-planned engineering work. Instead just partial suspensions to allow the extension to be added on.

How reliable are the skylink services. they have to be if you are going to the airport?

 

[Elwyn]

How reliable are the skylink services. they have to be if you are going to the airport?

I use the 200 regularly from Leith to the airport and it's generally pretty reliable.

 

[scotrail158713]

Not that I'm often at the airport, but if I was I'd almost always use the Airlink/Skylink. The one time the tram is better is during the Highland show when the roads at Ingliston are gridlocked.

 

[Butts]

Check this out for a convoluted route.....

Train from Falkirk to Edinburgh Park

Tram to Ingilston P&R

200 Bus to Airport

 

[InOban]

Surely at any time of day when there are trains fro Falkirk to Edinburgh Park there will be trams through to the airport? Unless you have a bus pass not issued by Edinburgh, in which case it's only valid on the buses.

 

[Butts]

Surely at any time of day when there are trains fro Falkirk to Edinburgh Park there will be trams through to the airport? Unless you have a bus pass not issued by Edinburgh, in which case it's only valid on the buses.

Got it in one outrageous

I normally get the 38 Bus from Falkirk to the Airport Road End and walk down if lightly loaded.

 

[SteveP29]

You must be going to Gyle, Edinburgh Park or Saughton, then. But for the vast majority the Airlink 100 will be quicker and runs all night. Whether, when the extension opens there will be sufficient demand for travel to Leith to extend the operating hours, I don't know, but it's more likely that the Skylink200 starts running 24hr.

That reminds me of a friend of mine who had one to many a tipple and fell asleep on the N22 and woke up at the airport stop. The driver took pity on him and let him stay on the return back into the city.

It'll be interesting to see when the completion of the original line is up and running if there will be plans to run the trams earlier in the morning and indeed later in the evening. I certainly think there is an argument to run trams from the airport beyond Edinburgh Gateway after 11pm to Leith.

200 bus runs from Ocean Terminal along the shoreline, will be quicker than a tram from the same place to the airport

 

[Kite159]

Did they used to run a limited service through the night, or have I got it confused with something TPE did?

Before Covid metrolink did run some early (3am) morning trams on the airport line, although they didn't go to Manchester city centre from memory.

 

[InOban]

200 bus runs from Ocean Terminal along the shoreline, will be quicker than a tram from the same place to the airport

Not sure about that. 200 is allowed 49 minutes, unless the tram is very slow down the Walk it may well be quicker.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Not sure about that. 200 is allowed 49 minutes, unless the tram is very slow down the Walk it may well be quicker.

Isn't the tram timed at about 35 minutes from the airport to York Place? If progress is equally slow down Leith Walk as the on-road stretch from Haymarket to St Andrew Sq I wouldn't be surprised at another 15 mins to Newhaven.

 

[Elwyn]

The tram and the 200 go in quite different directions. So that's pretty important. If going from Ocean Terminal to the airport there’s not going to be any significant time difference between the tram or the 200 (save that the tram will offer a more frequent service). But if leaving from other places in that general area one might have an advantage over the other. I have a flat in Timber Bush, Leith. No use for the 200 which is a quarter of a mile away but ideal for the tram which will have a stop at the Shore. So in general terms both the 200 and the tram will offer good services to the airport but it depends on exactly where you want to board.

 

[Mal]

IIRC, someone mentioned that when trams start operating to Newhaven, some would be left at Newhaven overnight to take up service first thing next day. If this is right, will there be any security as I think they could become a target for vandals.

 

[och aye]

IIRC, someone mentioned that when trams start operating to Newhaven, some would be left at Newhaven overnight to take up service first thing next day. If this is right, will there be any security as I think they could become a target for vandals.

I think there was supposed to be a stabling area within Forth Ports land where it would be fenced off, but I'm not sure what happened with that.

 

[AngusH]

There doesn't seem to much on the public plans that I can see for the newhaven station.
Either I missed it or it's been removed

I can see the benefit for a really intensive service to have an newhaven->airport tram immediately at system start,
but I'm not sure we're quite there yet. Possibly this is something planned for a future upgrade?

One thing that I thought interesting: looking at the newhaven tram stop, the section the tram would continue along past the station to the junction is entirely reserved by a public space. So I guess it could be extended somewhere?

 

[roadierway77]

There doesn't seem to much on the public plans that I can see for the newhaven station.
Either I missed it or it's been removed

I can see the benefit for a really intensive service to have an newhaven->airport tram immediately at system start,
but I'm not sure we're quite there yet. Possibly this is something planned for a future upgrade?

One thing that I thought interesting: looking at the newhaven tram stop, the section the tram would continue along past the station to the junction is entirely reserved by a public space. So I guess it could be extended somewhere?

I believe the plan is to extend current services to Newhaven, while also running short services between Newhaven and Haymarket to provide an intensive service from Newhaven to the city centre.

And yes I'm pretty sure provision has been made at Newhaven for a potential extension westwards to Granton, should that ever happen.

 

[AngusH]

So it would probably start at the current depot at maybe 5am, go into service at Edinburgh Gateway and then run through to Newhaven. Or maybe just do a first run to the Airport and back?

Which would then form the first tram back inwards from newhaven at maybe 6am?

Having a second tram depot (or secure siding) on the newhaven side solely for an earlier start probably seems a bit of a luxury right now.

 

[duncanp]

So it would probably start at the current depot at maybe 5am, go into service at Edinburgh Gateway and then run through to Newhaven. Or maybe just do a first run to the Airport and back?

Which would then form the first tram back inwards from newhaven at maybe 6am?

Having a second tram depot (or secure siding) on the newhaven side solely for an earlier start probably seems a bit of a luxury right now.

For the West Midlands Metro, the tram depot is at Wednesbury, well on the way to Wolverhampton.

So to start services from the Edgbaston terminus in Birmingham at 05:15, the first tram has to leave the depot at 04:28.

Whereas to start services from Wolverhampton at 05:15, the first tram has to leave the depot at 04:56.

I would imagine a similar set up would happen in Edinburgh, as I can't see trams being stabled in the open at Newhaven every night. Apart from security issues, there would be a concerns about weather damage, not to mention disruption to services if one of the trams that was stabled overnight failed to start properly in the morning.

 

[roadierway77]

So it would probably start at the current depot at maybe 5am, go into service at Edinburgh Gateway and then run through to Newhaven. Or maybe just do a first run to the Airport and back?

Which would then form the first tram back inwards from newhaven at maybe 6am?

Having a second tram depot (or secure siding) on the newhaven side solely for an earlier start probably seems a bit of a luxury right now.

I imagine that's what will happen, yes, either that or the first tram of the day from Newhaven will run empty from Gogar.

 

[InOban]

It is now saying that full two-way traffic on the Walk will resume from Monday week, 13th and test trams will be running from early March

 

[Mal]

It is now saying that full two-way traffic on the Walk will resume from Monday week, 13th and test trams will be running from early March

That's great news! Leithers should be relieved that most, if not all, the rpad works should be cleared up and life gets back to normal for them.
Is there any word as to how many weeks tram testing will be before revenue service begins?

 

[InOban]

That must depend on how testing goes.....

I've now seen a tweet suggesting may, but it's not official.

 

[A330Alex]

IIRC, someone mentioned that when trams start operating to Newhaven, some would be left at Newhaven overnight to take up service first thing next day. If this is right, will there be any security as I think they could become a target for vandals.

There were initially plans for a fenced off stabling area on Forth Ports land north of Melrose Drive. This was however replaced with a stabling area beyond the tram stop. I don’t believe there will be any fencing or security other than CCTV. I wouldn’t be surprised if a tram was tagged before long if they’re going to be kept in the open overnight like that.

 

[kylemore]

There were initially plans for a fenced off stabling area on Forth Ports land north of Melrose Drive. This was however replaced with a stabling area beyond the tram stop. I don’t believe there will be any fencing or security other than CCTV. I wouldn’t be surprised if a tram was tagged before long if they’re going to be kept in the open overnight like that.

Not ideal then - surely more sensible to run trams "light" from the depot early in the morning - what would be the "light" time from the depot to Newhaven I wonder?