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East Midlands Railway Dec 2025 recast

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DDB

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Internal information.

Crewe picks up Attenborough hourly and the Matlock picks up Spondon hourly.
I wonder if any of the peak services will pick up the other stop?

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Matlock Trains used to go direct to Newark but not anymore
You are quite right I forgot they swapped the Crewe and the Matlock.

There appears to be a drive to have 2 trains an hour connecting Lincoln Nottingham and Derby but I'm not sure whether that drive is from existing demand or from a belief that the services will drive demand.
 
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Spondon has recently gone from a handful of peak only services to a regular 2 hourly service and hourly in the peaks. If you look at the most recent figures you will see numbers have shot up. (8k to 24k).

As always it will complicated by discounts and the fare cap but I believe at one time Spondon Derby was cheaper by train than bus.

There are now quite a few kids boarding at Spondon each morning. I assune they are going to Derby College's campus right by Derby station.

The 2 hourly service was achieved by taking out Attenborough stops so outside the peaks they stopped at one or the other. Sounds like they will now all stop at both.

If there is retiming of services I wonder if it can be made so that from Attenborough people can change at East Midlands Parkway for London rather than having to double back at Beeston or Nottingham.
The Bus fare from Chaddesden/Spondon to Derby return is £6.00 and the Train fare from Spondon to Derby return is £4.40, that is cheaper than the Bus
 

duffield

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It already goes to through to Newark at the moment.
It doesn't, it's the Crewe service that goes to Newark. The Matlock service just shuttles Nottingham to Matlock. The concern is that extending it all the way to Clee will make it wildly unreliable compared to today.

Edit: I see everyone else has already picked this up.
There appears to be a drive to have 2 trains an hour connecting Lincoln Nottingham and Derby but I'm not sure whether that drive is from existing demand or from a belief that the services will drive demand.

Some of the Nottingham - Lincoln services are badly overcrowded at present, I'm sure that's what's driving the 2tph.
 
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tram21

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Edit: I see everyone else has already picked this up.
They have, but it's still a big concern. The Matlock route is currently very reliable, so it may cause some issues. But then again, the Leicester services aren't too bad at the moment.
 

Kite159

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The Bus fare from Chaddesden/Spondon to Derby return is £6.00 and the Train fare from Spondon to Derby return is £4.40, that is cheaper than the Bus
However how more frequent is the bus compared to the train, and if the bus has the advantage of dropping off the punters in Derby city centre rather than at the station?
 

43055

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However how more frequent is the bus compared to the train, and if the bus has the advantage of dropping off the punters in Derby city centre rather than at the station?
The bus is every 10 mins and fast down the A52 right to the bus station in the city centre. There is also another two an hour serving more of Spondon but doesn't go direct into Derby.
 

bunnahabhain

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There appears to be a drive to have 2 trains an hour connecting Lincoln Nottingham and Derby but I'm not sure whether that drive is from existing demand or from a belief that the services will drive demand.
It's more how the paths across the ECML flat crossing dictate the paths either side. It's worth noting that the Crewe and Matlock services switch departure times at Nottingham as well, with Crewe now leaving approx xx54 and Matlock approx xx17. The Matlock is the fast service East of Nottingham.

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However how more frequent is the bus compared to the train, and if the bus has the advantage of dropping off the punters in Derby city centre rather than at the station?
The bus has rubber tyres so is akin to kryptonite for some people.
 

DDB

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It's more how the paths across the ECML flat crossing dictate the paths either side. It's worth noting that the Crewe and Matlock services switch departure times at Nottingham as well, with Crewe now leaving approx xx54 and Matlock approx xx17. The Matlock is the fast service East of Nottingham.

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The bus has rubber tyres so is akin to kryptonite for some people.
Is the departure time switch what has happened or what will happen? If the later have the new times been published somewhere?

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The bus is every 10 mins and fast down the A52 right to the bus station in the city centre. There is also another two an hour serving more of Spondon but doesn't go direct into Derby.
I don't take the trian I used to but when I did I think the teenagers I saw getting on at Spondon were going to Derby college which is adjacent to Derby station. So for them the station would be more convenient. It does depend of course on where they live at the Spondon end.
 
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43055

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Is the departure time switch what has happened or what will happen? If the later have the new times been published somewhere?
What will happen.

By the looks of things the Matlock service goes back to its old path by leaving Nottingham at xx17 which would make it around xx52 from Derby again to Matlock and xx13 to Nottingham.
 

tram21

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davidknibb

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Wasn't there one time - many moons ago, a rail tunnel under the main line at Nuneaton, at the south end of the station? If this is right, then it connected Coventry with Leicester, but without a Nuneaton stop. Or is my old memory playing tricks on me ?? And wasn't there more recently an idea that it might be re-excavated , but the Nuneaton MP opposed this as the trains wouldn't stop at Nuneaton.
Or am I imagining all this ??
 

LowLevel

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Wasn't there one time - many moons ago, a rail tunnel under the main line at Nuneaton, at the south end of the station? If this is right, then it connected Coventry with Leicester, but without a Nuneaton stop. Or is my old memory playing tricks on me ?? And wasn't there more recently an idea that it might be re-excavated , but the Nuneaton MP opposed this as the trains wouldn't stop at Nuneaton.
Or am I imagining all this ??
There's a very small tunnel there but I'm not sure it was ever actually used.
 

davidknibb

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Wasn't there one time - many moons ago, a rail tunnel under the main line at Nuneaton, at the south end of the station? If this is right, then it connected Coventry with Leicester, but without a Nuneaton stop. Or is my old memory playing tricks on me ?? And wasn't there more recently an idea that it might be re-excavated , but the Nuneaton MP opposed this as the trains wouldn't stop at Nuneaton.
Or am I imagining all this ??
 

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edwin_m

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Wasn't there one time - many moons ago, a rail tunnel under the main line at Nuneaton, at the south end of the station? If this is right, then it connected Coventry with Leicester, but without a Nuneaton stop. Or is my old memory playing tricks on me ?? And wasn't there more recently an idea that it might be re-excavated , but the Nuneaton MP opposed this as the trains wouldn't stop at Nuneaton.
Or am I imagining all this ??

There's a very small tunnel there but I'm not sure it was ever actually used.
Yes, there was an idea of reinstating a direct connection a few years ago, but I think it would have been pretty much a new tunnel under the WCML, and Nuneaton station is pretty convenient for the town as well as allowing main line connections. Personally I think a reversal at the old Abbey station could be made to work, but I'm shouted down every time I suggest it on here...
 

davidknibb

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I've found the 1887 OS map in the National Library of Scotland There is clearly marked a line from Cov to Leics going under the main line. It's marked as the LNWR loop line.
Perhaps we should start a campaign to re open it. Going from Cov - where I live- to Leics as I used to do a lot is a pretty poor trip
 

duffield

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I've found the 1887 OS map in the National Library of Scotland There is clearly marked a line from Cov to Leics going under the main line. It's marked as the LNWR loop line.
Perhaps we should start a campaign to re open it. Going from Cov - where I live- to Leics as I used to do a lot is a pretty poor trip
Interestingly, all the later maps (e.g. 1902-1904) do show this line, going under the main line - but not connected to the Coventry line, and in fact blocked by a siding, or (later) ending at a turntable. It seems odd that this line would be disconnected not long after being built, since you would imagine it would have formed a very useful freight bypass for Nuneaton station. I wonder if there's a chance the 1886/7/8 maps - perhaps based on the same data - are wrong, and that maybe the connection was planned as shown but never built as planned? I've certainly heard of some older OS maps showing railway infrastructure as if it had been built which was then never built in reality.

Also, I've got a feeling I've read a discussion on this site of this underpass before, quite a few years ago, where it was stated that the height clearance was far too low for reinstatement for rail use (even without considering OHLE), possibly because of subsequent changes such as reinforcing it (from underneath) to carry the track above. But I can't find that specific discussion.
 

bunnahabhain

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Is the departure time switch what has happened or what will happen? If the later have the new times been published somewhere?

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I don't take the trian I used to but when I did I think the teenagers I saw getting on at Spondon were going to Derby college which is adjacent to Derby station. So for them the station would be more convenient. It does depend of course on where they live at the Spondon end.
Times haven't been published yet.

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Found this old timetable from 2015. I assume it will be similar to this

Please let me know if the link doesn't work (link is to the 2015 EMT Matlock timetable)

https://web.archive.org/web/20151123042516if_/http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk:80/Global/Documents/MAY 15 TT3 web version.pdf
Relatively similar, the "Ambergate Flyer" also returns except this time it's an approx 0657 Ambergate to Cleethorpes!
 
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Is the departure time switch what has happened or what will happen? If the later have the new times been published somewhere?

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I don't take the trian I used to but when I did I think the teenagers I saw getting on at Spondon were going to Derby college which is adjacent to Derby station. So for them the station would be more convenient. It does depend of course on where they live at the Spondon end.
It's very rare that I use the Buses, the only times that I'm on the Buses is for to get to volunteering work at Midland Railway Butterley and places where I can't access by Train but other than that I just use the Train from Spondon even if I'm just going into Derby City Centre
 

tram21

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Times haven't been published yet.

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Relatively similar, the "Ambergate Flyer" also returns except this time it's an approx 0657 Ambergate to Cleethorpes!
Interesting. Do you happen to know what the Sunday timetable looks like?
 

MatthewE707

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I know the actual timetable hasn't been published yet, but are the stopping trains between Leicester and Nottingham likely to remain at the same / similar time to the current times?
 

tram21

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I know the actual timetable hasn't been published yet, but are the stopping trains between Leicester and Nottingham likely to remain at the same / similar time to the current times?
I would imagine so as they are pathed with the Intercity services which aren't having any major timetable changes.
 

43055

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I know the actual timetable hasn't been published yet, but are the stopping trains between Leicester and Nottingham likely to remain at the same / similar time to the current times?

I would imagine so as they are pathed with the Intercity services which aren't having any major timetable changes.
Could be wrong but I think that one or both legs may change slightly as it is around 50 mins Nottingham to Leicester, so could be done with 2 units instead of 3 if the current times are kept.
 

bunnahabhain

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Interesting. Do you happen to know what the Sunday timetable looks like?
Matlock to Lincoln, and Derby to Crewe. I can't remember how many go through to Cleethorpes but assume it's the 3 a day that run at present.
 

jamesross

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It doesn't, it's the Crewe service that goes to Newark. The Matlock service just shuttles Nottingham to Matlock. The concern is that extending it all the way to Clee will make it wildly unreliable compared to today.

Edit: I see everyone else has already picked this up.


Some of the Nottingham - Lincoln services are badly overcrowded at present, I'm sure that's what's driving the 2tph.
Yepp, very very busy, especially weekends. However times I have had to catch weekday, it's still pretty busy. Either needs an extra carriage or more frequent times in both directions. Hopefully we will see proposed timetable soon.

With EMR, reducing Northgate to Lincoln trains in their proposal, do we know if all trains will be stopping at Collingham and Hykeham?
 

MatthewE707

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How long before the timetable change do these new timetables tend to be released? Thinking about the ECML recast as well
 

99009

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How long before the timetable change do these new timetables tend to be released? Thinking about the ECML recast as well
Usually, the timetable changes start appearing on public sites such as Real Time Trains (RTT) about 3 months before they're due to begin. When this happens, we usually get a view of the vast majority of changes, but some of the changes may not have yet filtered through or been completely finalised. That means I expect to see the majority of December 2025 changes on RTT (and therefore discussed on this forum) from around Monday 15th September 2025.
 

43074

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Usually, the timetable changes start appearing on public sites such as Real Time Trains (RTT) about 3 months before they're due to begin. When this happens, we usually get a view of the vast majority of changes, but some of the changes may not have yet filtered through or been completely finalised. That means I expect to see the majority of December 2025 changes on RTT (and therefore discussed on this forum) from around Monday 15th September 2025.
3 months is the timescale for short term planning amendments e.g. for engineering works, the full working timetable should start appearing downstream from early August. Although given the scale of the change in December I'd expect some will be later than that, depending how many conflicts and the like are outstanding.
 

Failed Unit

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Matlock to Lincoln, and Derby to Crewe. I can't remember how many go through to Cleethorpes but assume it's the 3 a day that run at present.
My understanding is that all trains will run to Cleethorpes - what is unclear is if the service will move to hourly or remain at 1 train every 2 hours. It really needs to be hourly now.

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Yepp, very very busy, especially weekends. However times I have had to catch weekday, it's still pretty busy. Either needs an extra carriage or more frequent times in both directions. Hopefully we will see proposed timetable soon.

With EMR, reducing Northgate to Lincoln trains in their proposal, do we know if all trains will be stopping at Collingham and Hykeham?
That is one thing I haven’t understood. They had strengthened many services to 3 coaches, everyone was happy. Then in summer 2024 the went down to 4 which was understandable with the Skegness loadings. Then have remained 2 ever since. I think 2 will be fine when Lincoln is half-hourly. If Grimsby- Lincoln remains every other hour it really needs to be 3.
 

43055

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My understanding is that all trains will run to Cleethorpes - what is unclear is if the service will move to hourly or remain at 1 train every 2 hours. It really needs to be hourly now.

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That is one thing I haven’t understood. They had strengthened many services to 3 coaches, everyone was happy. Then in summer 2024 the went down to 4 which was understandable with the Skegness loadings. Then have remained 2 ever since. I think 2 will be fine when Lincoln is half-hourly. If Grimsby- Lincoln remains every other hour it really needs to be 3.
Even at times the Crewe service could do with a 3 car but it is a case of robing peter to pay Paul. I suspect the 3 car diagrams that are now on the Liverpool's were the Lincoln ones.
 
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