East Midlands Railway Dec 2025 recast

[bunnahabhain]

Begs the question of how/why the WMRE became ultimate arbiter?! Thought the DfT would have the final say over something.

Mind you, the DfT have always screwed over the East Midlands and gone out of their way to make it a second-class operation. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride (or even the maid of honour).

Greater power of persuasion.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Mind you, the DfT have always screwed over the East Midlands and gone out of their way to make it a second-class operation. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride (or even the maid of honour).

Of course you say that though, living there.

 

[QSK19]

Of course you say that though, living there.

True - and the fact I’m not far from the ECML rubs salt in the wound

Nevertheless, EMR’s life thus far has been dominated by project delays (810s & non-IC refurbishments), shortformed services and wasteful expenditure (ex-LNER HSTs). It’s been a troubled few years and IMO the DfT could have been more proactive in sorting things out.

Let’s hope the refurbishment and indeed the recast later this year contribute to meaningful improvements.

 

[Trainman40083]

I did have one thought, based on something I saw today. Treat it as a joke (hopefully). A Europhoenix Class 37 moved a GWR Class 769 from Doncaster to Leicester this morning. Hmm, OHLE and diesel engines. Just what you need to get from Wigston to Nottingham. . Hopefully not, mind.

 

[Banham7]

Which service will be the stopper between Newark and Nottingham?

Lincoln to Crewe or Cleethorpes to Matlock?

 

[Halish Railway]

Which service will be the stopper between Newark and Nottingham?

Lincoln to Crewe or Cleethorpes to Matlock?

I wouldn’t rule out the two services having different stopping patterns in either direction so that the two services can be pathed over the flat crossing at Newark, e.g. towards Lincoln one calls at the smaller stations between Nottingham and Newark, whereas going the other way it calls at the smaller stations between Lincoln and Newark.

 

[ChrisC]

I wouldn’t rule out the two services having different stopping patterns in either direction so that the two services can be pathed over the flat crossing at Newark, e.g. towards Lincoln one calls at the smaller stations between Nottingham and Newark, whereas going the other way it calls at the smaller stations between Lincoln and Newark.

Whatever happens it will be good for the smaller stations to have their through service to Lincoln restored. Before the trains which now terminate at Newark Castle were introduced the smaller stations had always had trains to Lincoln. I think this will be especially welcomed at Carlton and Lowdham which always used to have a small number of passengers to/from Lincoln. I used to travel occasionally between Lowdham and Lincoln but stopped using the line after it required a change of train and a long wait at Newark Castle. The smaller stations could see a slight rise in passenger numbers.

 

[baz962]

A shame that there are no plans to reinstate the later Saint Pancras to Derby service that Abellio introduced or reinstate direct London services from Alfreton, something which was rather popular with customers.

Which later st Pancras to Derby. If you mean the 00.15 it wasn't popular.

 

[liamf656]

A shame that there are no plans to reinstate the later Saint Pancras to Derby service that Abellio introduced or reinstate direct London services from Alfreton, something which was rather popular with customers.

There do seem to be whispers of the 00:15 service making a comeback at some point in the future. Could just be a rumour however

 

[Trainman40083]

Which later st Pancras to Derby. If you mean the 00.15 it wasn't popular.

The direct Alfreton was a HST service than ran from Leeds (and allocated to Neville Hill). Once the HSTs were withdrawn, so was the Alfreton service .

 

[Qwerty133]

I can't see the Coventry proposal ever happening and it doesn't need to if reliable connections could be made at Nuneaton. EMR were originally barred from serving Birmingham New Street as the West Midlands Rail Executive wanted the XC routes to Leicester and Nottingham under their control, and not the control of the East Midlands. Whether that bar still stands now that it isn't a franchise, who knows.

To be fair any Birmingham to Nottingham via Leicester service would fit much neater with the XC Turbostar services than the remaining regional EMR services so if it was to happen it probably would make sense to transfer the route to XC.

 

[Trainman40083]

To be fair any Birmingham to Nottingham via Leicester service would fit much neater with the XC Turbostar services than the remaining regional EMR services so if it was to happen it probably would make sense to transfer the route to XC.

And no doubt a number of Turbostars would have to transfer from EMR to XC to cover it

 

[Llandudno]

To be fair any Birmingham to Nottingham via Leicester service would fit much neater with the XC Turbostar services than the remaining regional EMR services so if it was to happen it probably would make sense to transfer the route to XC.

Don’t need to give XC anymore work they can’t run even run current services reliably !

 

[Class 170101]

The direct Alfreton was a HST service than ran from Leeds (and allocated to Neville Hill). Once the HSTs were withdrawn, so was the Alfreton service .

Withdrawn as a London service and now operates as a Sheffield to / from Norwich service. Passengers for London need to change at Nottingham.

 

[DDB]

Another thread linked to the Network track applications page which has EMR's application. I will post a link but the application is currently in current consultations but should be moved to past consultations shortly as it closed over the weekend.
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ormation-for-operators/sale-of-access-rights/

I don't understand most of it as it is industry technical language and tables but one of the documents had a summary of benefits which I quote below

The headline customer benefit is the doubling of Monday to Saturday services on the Nottingham to
Lincoln route which will deliver over 2000 extra seats per day, mitigating existing demand constraints
on the corridor and creating a foundation for future growth.
Key changes to service patterns, above the proposed extension of the Crewe-Newark Castle service
to Lincoln (contained in the 19th SA), include:
1) a new through-route from Matlock to Cleethorpes, creating a leisure service between the Peak
District and the Lincolnshire Coast;
2) a shuttle service between Leicester and Nottingham, with future potential to extend to other
Midlands’ cities and
3) the Peterborough to Lincoln and Lincoln to Doncaster services become self-contained routes
instead of a Peterborough to Doncaster through service on the GNGE Joint Line, providing better
connections with other services at Peterborough and Doncaster and improve the overall route
performance.
In terms of passenger benefits, it is quicker to change trains at Nottingham if travelling between
Leicester and Lincoln with the proposed changes to service patterns and improved connections
initiated by Project Abraham. Having all Lincoln services going to Derby improves the journey for
passenger travelling to Birmingham and the Southwest of England. Furthermore, it simplifies the
operation and should deliver improved disruption management as service groups are better
segregated.
The proposed recast timetable demonstrates a mostly positive impact on performance in both the
East and West and will deliver improved punctuality, compared to the current timetable; both overall
and to a greater extent for EMR’s Local and Regional services.
Other customer benefits include:
 Improved connections at Sleaford for journeys between Lincoln and Boston / Skegness
 Improved connections at Lincoln for journeys between London King’s Cross and Market
Rasen / Barnetby / Habrough / Grimsby Town / Cleethorpes resulting in faster journey times.
 Improved connections at Derby for journeys between Matlock and Crewe / Birmingham
 Extension of Nottingham services from Grimsby Town to Cleethorpes.
 Direct through-journey opportunities between Matlock and Cleethorpes, and Crewe and
Lincoln (East to West).
 More Sunday services on the Matlock route, having an hourly service all-day.
 More trains calling at Burton Joyce, Radcliffe, Attenborough and Spondon.
 More Saturday services across the network, making the timetable consistent with a weekday.
 Services are retimed to make a better clock-face timetable in Lincolnshire.
 Additional services between Lincoln and Peterborough in each direction on a Saturday, to
match the weekday timetable and focus on passenger demand growth which is increasingly
off-peak.
 Extended turnround times at Crewe which will reduce instances of trains being terminated
short at Stoke-on-Trent, improving confidence in the reliability of rail.
 Hourly calls at Attenborough (Crewe services) and Spondon (Matlock services) to improve
access to employment, education and leisure opportunities by rail and increase rail mode
share. The Crewe service will call additionally at Attenborough, enabling the Matlock service
to call consistently at Spondon.
Other changes and benefits:
 Removal of the 05:00 Cleethorpes – Lincoln, to re-allocate train crew to routes that require
more capacity. Service did not run before May 2021, and the next service is at 05:49 The transfer of the New Clee and Grimsby Dock calls from the Barton-on-Humber to the
Nottingham service, which will benefit passengers using those services from increased
reliability.
 EMR will continue to explore ways to develop the Sunday timetable, to meet long standing
aspirations for improved services and reduce net subsidy.

 

[tram21]

Another thread linked to the Network track applications page which has EMR's application. I will post a link but the application is currently in current consultations but should be moved to past consultations shortly as it closed over the weekend.
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ormation-for-operators/sale-of-access-rights/

I don't understand most of it as it is industry technical language and tables but one of the documents had a summary of benefits which I quote below

That's even more detail to before, and all seems like very positive for the region.

My concern as a regular user of the Matlock line is deteriorating reliability extending the service to Cleethorpes, but other than that, it all looks great!

 

[Trainman40083]

That's even more detail to before, and all seems like very positive for the region.

My concern as a regular user of the Matlock line is deteriorating reliability extending the service to Cleethorpes, but other than that, it all looks great!

Yes, if the Matlock trains don't pass before Ambergate Junction, it knacks the service up.

 

[30907]

Yes, if the Matlock trains don't pass before Ambergate Junction, it knacks the service up.

It would make sense to have a longer turnround at Matlock, so that late-running Down trains don't delay Up ones, if that can be managed.

 

[tram21]

It would make sense to have a longer turnround at Matlock, so that late-running Down trains don't delay Up ones, if that can be managed.

But then you couldn't have an hourly service. They currently pass at Duffield, so not much capacity for delays. Hopefully they just have a short layover in Nottingham and maintain their current 15 minute layover in Derby (although I would appreciate them getting rid of that tbf!!)

 

[edwin_m]

But then you couldn't have an hourly service. They currently pass at Duffield, so not much capacity for delays. Hopefully they just have a short layover in Nottingham and maintain their current 15 minute layover in Derby (although I would appreciate them getting rid of that tbf!!)

The layover at Derby should make it less likely to be late at Ambergate so has about the same performance benefit as if it could spend 15min longer at Matlock. Though obviously not helpful for those who are using it through Derby.

 

[QSK19]

That's even more detail to before, and all seems like very positive for the region.

My concern as a regular user of the Matlock line is deteriorating reliability extending the service to Cleethorpes, but other than that, it all looks great!

Without wanting to resort to selfishness by caring only about what impacts the person themselves, there seems to be an uplift in the to-be-curtailed Leicester-Nottingham service (when comparing the uplifted number the to frequency of service for Leicester-Lincoln/Grimsby Town/Cleethorpes), however I am disappointed that there is no Sunday service - which was part of the original franchise agreement (yes, we know it’s dead in the water). I am also wary of LEI-NOT being the first service to be chopped if there is a shortage of stock or if other services need strengthening; however I do take reassurance from opinions earlier in the thread that it wouldn’t be wise to chop or reduce LEI-NOT any further beyond the recast.

 

[liamf656]

But then you couldn't have an hourly service. They currently pass at Duffield, so not much capacity for delays. Hopefully they just have a short layover in Nottingham and maintain their current 15 minute layover in Derby (although I would appreciate them getting rid of that tbf!!)

It's probably best to keep the layover at Derby rather than Matlock as I'd imagine they want as little time on the single line as possible to minimise delays (and imported delays onto MML and XC)

 

[Llandudno]

That's even more detail to before, and all seems like very positive for the region.

My concern as a regular user of the Matlock line is deteriorating reliability extending the service to Cleethorpes, but other than that, it all looks great!

The proposed hourly Sunday service to Matlock is welcome as well as the improved connections with Crewe services at Derby.

An earlier statement mentioned a later last train from Nottingham to Matlock (currently 2155) but omitted in the recent statement, I wonder if this is still the plan and what time this train will be?

 

[Class 170101]

@Failed Unit
It will actually be a big one with the EMR regional recast also happening. Details on this is fairly slim, probably because it is subject to change.
Peterborough - Lincoln Hourly
Lincoln - Doncaster (Frequency unknown)
Lincoln - Crewe - Hourly (Extending existing service from Newark Castle)
Cleethorpes - Matlock (Frequency unknown) hourly to Lincoln praying it is for whole route. According to EMR press releases proving useful connections to LNER at Lincoln
Nottingham - Leicester (Shuttle service)
I suspect it will be August before we see timetables / real frequency proposals.

Have a look through this thread there are a few links that might help your question be answered

 

[I like Class 153]

Which will do the Spondon stops, Crewe to Lincoln or Cleethorpes to Matlock or both?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2025 ==

A number of changes coming in December 2025 for East Midlands Railway services across the region.

• Matlock to Nottingham services run through to Cleethorpes.
  • New Clee and Grimsby Docks served by this service, rather than the Barton-on-Humber branch.
• Crewe to Newark Castle services run through to Lincoln Central.
• Leicester to Lincoln Central / Grimsby Town services terminate at Nottingham.
• Peterborough to Doncaster via Spalding services to be split at Lincoln Central with through journeys requiring a change.
  • Additional services run, 1 round trip on weekdays, and 4 on Saturdays.
• Lincoln Central to Newark North Gate services reduced from 5 to 4 weekdays, 10 to 4 Saturdays and 10 to 8 Sundays.
• Additional Sunday services
  • An earlier Nottingham to Manchester Piccadilly service (I'd expect 0845 approx) on Sundays, with one of the Sheffield to Norwich services starting back at Manchester Piccadilly
  • An additional AM Lincoln Central to Nottingham, PM Nottingham to Lincoln Central and an additional PM Mansfield Woodhouse to Nottingham.
  • Additional Matlock services
• Hourly calls at Carlton, Spondon, Attenborough, Burton Joyce (not Sundays)
• Later last trains to Mansfield Woodhouse, Matlock and Grantham (an additional after 2100 to Grantham)

Where did you find these posters?

 

[bunnahabhain]

Which will do the Spondon stops, Crewe to Lincoln or Cleethorpes to Matlock or both?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2025 ==


Where did you find these posters?

Internal information.

Crewe picks up Attenborough hourly and the Matlock picks up Spondon hourly.

 

[Llandudno]

Still no news on outline timetables yet, be interesting to see what time the later last train will depart Nottingham to Matlock?

 

[I like Class 153]

I bet the direct Cleethorpes to Matlock won't go down well, why can't they keep as Nottingham to Matlock?

 

[DDB]

I bet the direct Cleethorpes to Matlock won't go down well, why can't they keep as Nottingham to Matlock?

It already goes to through to Newark at the moment.

 

[I like Class 153]

It already goes to through to Newark at the moment.

Matlock Trains used to go direct to Newark but not anymore