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East Midlands Railway Dec 2025 recast

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Llandudno

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It looks to me like lots of these changes reflect the post COVID trend of demand being driven by leisure travel. More Sunday trains and/or calls and later last trains, but as another poster pointed out no sign of the return of the weekday Mansfield Woodhouse extras.

Recently I posted an article from the Stage about the effect of public transport, or lack there off, on theatre recovery. It included the specific example of the Nottingham Playhouse wanting later trains to nearby towns and villages. It sounds like they may be getting their wish depending on the timings and which directions they were thinking of.

A later Matlock service from Nottingham will I assume also plug the large gap in services from Nottingham to Beeston/Attenborough after 10pm
The last train from Nottingham to Matlock is currently at 2155. Does anyone have any inside info what the proposed later last train will be?

It needs to be after 2230 for concerts at Nottingham Arena/Theatre Royal, Forest or County night matches and T20/Hundred cricket matches at Trent Bridge?
 
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greataj

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I can see a lot of the overall benefit of these changes, except there is one thing that I notice is becoming a bit of a trend with EMR is reduced direct routings at Leicester.

If the current Lincoln service will only go as far as Nottingham, the only purpose this route will now have for Leicester is the intermediate calls in Syston, Sileby, Barrow and Attenborough, given that Loughborough, East Midlands Parkway and Beeston are already covered with the Intercity routes.

Given that Leicester already lost direct services to intermediate stops south of Kettering once the Corby-London St Pancras changes a few years ago, that's quite a reduction in direct routings to/from Leicester in a relatively short space of time. I remember people having some very mixed opinions when that came in, at Wellingborough in particular, as for them it had to all intents and purposes wiped out direct north-bound routings towards Leicester/Nottingham. I feel they'll be a similar reaction perhaps from some commuters in Newark and Lincoln losing Leicester routings, albeit probably to a lesser extent.

I make it now that the only stations served direct from Leicester with EMR will be:
Sheffield
Chesterfield
Derby
Long Eaton
Nottingham
Beeston
Attenborough
East Midlands Parkway
Loughborough
Barrow Upon Soar
Sileby
Syston
Market Harborough
Kettering
London St Pancras

Over the course of just a few years, all of the following will have been lost, at least as a regular service pattern:
Luton Airport Parkway
Luton
Bedford
Wellingborough
Newark Castle
Collingham
Swinderby
Hykeham
Lincoln Central
Market Rasen
Barnetby
Habrough
Grimsby Town

I appreciate the flows to Leicester from some of these stations will be minimal, but that's quite a reduction in direct route options for Leicester originating customers. In fact, once Cambridge South is established, that woud mean CrossCountry (just) will serve more stations with direct service from Leicester than EMR.
 

43055

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The last train from Nottingham to Matlock is currently at 2155. Does anyone have any inside info what the proposed later last train will be?

It needs to be after 2230 for concerts at Nottingham Arena/Theatre Royal, Forest or County night matches and T20/Hundred cricket matches at Trent Bridge?
There is currently a 2257 which terminates at Derby so it could be that extended to Matlock.
 

Discuss223

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A shame that there are no plans to reinstate the later Saint Pancras to Derby service that Abellio introduced or reinstate direct London services from Alfreton, something which was rather popular with customers.
 

duffield

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I can see a lot of the overall benefit of these changes, except there is one thing that I notice is becoming a bit of a trend with EMR is reduced direct routings at Leicester.

If the current Lincoln service will only go as far as Nottingham, the only purpose this route will now have for Leicester is the intermediate calls in Syston, Sileby, Barrow and Attenborough, given that Loughborough, East Midlands Parkway and Beeston are already covered with the Intercity routes.

Given that Leicester already lost direct services to intermediate stops south of Kettering once the Corby-London St Pancras changes a few years ago, that's quite a reduction in direct routings to/from Leicester in a relatively short space of time. I remember people having some very mixed opinions when that came in, at Wellingborough in particular, as for them it had to all intents and purposes wiped out direct north-bound routings towards Leicester/Nottingham. I feel they'll be a similar reaction perhaps from some commuters in Newark and Lincoln losing Leicester routings, albeit probably to a lesser extent.

I make it now that the only stations served direct from Leicester with EMR will be:
Sheffield
Chesterfield
Derby
Long Eaton
Nottingham
Beeston
Attenborough
East Midlands Parkway
Loughborough
Barrow Upon Soar
Sileby
Syston
Market Harborough
Kettering
London St Pancras

Over the course of just a few years, all of the following will have been lost, at least as a regular service pattern:
Luton Airport Parkway
Luton
Bedford
Wellingborough
Newark Castle
Collingham
Swinderby
Hykeham
Lincoln Central
Market Rasen
Barnetby
Habrough
Grimsby Town

I appreciate the flows to Leicester from some of these stations will be minimal, but that's quite a reduction in direct route options for Leicester originating customers. In fact, once Cambridge South is established, that woud mean CrossCountry (just) will serve more stations with direct service from Leicester than EMR.
"If the current Lincoln service will only go as far as Nottingham, the only purpose this route will now have for Leicester is the intermediate calls in Syston, Sileby, Barrow and Attenborough, given that Loughborough, East Midlands Parkway and Beeston are already covered with the Intercity routes."

Just on this particular point, Loughborough may have the Intercity services but the stopper does have a very useful purpose - it gives Loughborough a service to Nottingham roughly every half hour instead of every hour, which is very useful (to me, anyhow - I use it frequently) In the Nottingham direction the service is not much slower than the Intercity service, unlike in the Leicester direction where the obvious choice is to get the Intercity service if not travelling to the intermediate stations.
 

Spartacus

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Via Brigg could only send the HEAVY oil train (up to 3200 tonnes) via, Retford, Worksop and Sheffield station and up the incline to Dore, which may import risk to say far more passenger trains between Sheffield and Chesterfield.

Would they be overweight for Mansfield & Pinxton?
 

70014IronDuke

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I can see a lot of the overall benefit of these changes, except there is one thing that I notice is becoming a bit of a trend with EMR is reduced direct routings at Leicester.

If the current Lincoln service will only go as far as Nottingham, the only purpose this route will now have for Leicester is the intermediate calls in Syston, Sileby, Barrow and Attenborough, given that Loughborough, East Midlands Parkway and Beeston are already covered with the Intercity routes.

Given that Leicester already lost direct services to intermediate stops south of Kettering once the Corby-London St Pancras changes a few years ago, that's quite a reduction in direct routings to/from Leicester in a relatively short space of time. I remember people having some very mixed opinions when that came in, at Wellingborough in particular, as for them it had to all intents and purposes wiped out direct north-bound routings towards Leicester/Nottingham. I feel they'll be a similar reaction perhaps from some commuters in Newark and Lincoln losing Leicester routings, albeit probably to a lesser extent.

I make it now that the only stations served direct from Leicester with EMR will be:
Sheffield
Chesterfield
Derby
Long Eaton
Nottingham
Beeston
Attenborough
East Midlands Parkway
Loughborough
Barrow Upon Soar
Sileby
Syston
Market Harborough
Kettering
London St Pancras

Over the course of just a few years, all of the following will have been lost, at least as a regular service pattern:
Luton Airport Parkway
Luton
Bedford
Wellingborough
Newark Castle
Collingham
Swinderby
Hykeham
Lincoln Central
Market Rasen
Barnetby
Habrough
Grimsby Town

I appreciate the flows to Leicester from some of these stations will be minimal, but that's quite a reduction in direct route options for Leicester originating customers. In fact, once Cambridge South is established, that woud mean CrossCountry (just) will serve more stations with direct service from Leicester than EMR.
And let's not forget Leicester lost a direct connection to Coventry in the WCML upgrade days (2007?) - definintely not a minimal flow at the time, I'm sure.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That would also be a double back but in the other direction!
Well, only a few hundred yards - I'd hardly count that as 'doubling back'. But it's a bit of a traipse changing platforms at Long Eaton (or used to be, not been there for decades).
 
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edwin_m

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And let's not forget Leicester lost a direct connection to Coventry in the WCML upgrade days (2007?) - definintely not a minimal flow at the time, I'm sure.
Not long before that it had services beyond Birmingham courtesy of the Central Trains origin-destination lottery.
But it's a bit of a traipse changing platforms at Long Eaton (or used to be, not been there for decades).
You still have to use the pavement under the bridge but there are now lifts both sides.
 

Failed Unit

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Leicester to Lincoln used to be useful. A lot of students used it. Now it stops at all stops between Nottingham and Leicester it is often quicker to change onto an Inter-City service.

Granted many people don’t like changes, if you are on a train if it is late you won’t miss your connecting service etc.

For me the best compromise was back when it ran to Birmingham. Again slower than via Derby but not so significant it was worth getting off. Back then Loughborough- Leicester was a dedicated shuttle. Winners and losers of the current arrangement but travelling from the East, a direct service to Derby gives me more options then the connections at Leicester.

However I am sure Leicester / Loughborough passengers will not be happy.

Hopefully GBR can reintroduce some of the cross-midlands flows lost when Central Trains was split. Although we probably don’t need Cleethorpes- Chester back.
 

QSK19

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However I am sure […] Loughborough passengers will not be happy.
Not very, especially given the franchise agreement (albeit I well know, like the rest of us, that is dead in the water) promised Sunday services for Ivanhoe stations. So, we’ve gone from that to no calls beyond Nottingham.

I’ve already made known my suspicions about this becoming a gradual chopping of the Ivanhoe service (to which other users have very likely explained why it won’t be chopped); but, even if it does remain, it just seems like this service is being diluted - slippery slope to frequency becoming once every 2 hours perhaps?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Now it stops at all stops between Nottingham and Leicester it is often quicker to change onto an Inter-City service.
No other choice though - Barrow, Sileby and Syston are served solely by that service; although stations like Attenborough are served by multiple services. But yes, as you say, quicker to travel IC between Leicester and the larger stations between there and Nottingham.
 
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Failed Unit

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Not very, especially given the franchise agreement (albeit I well know, like the rest of us, that is dead in the water) promised Sunday services for Ivanhoe stations. So, we’ve gone from that to no calls beyond Nottingham.

I’ve already made known my suspicions about this becoming a gradual chopping of the Ivanhoe service (to which other users have very likely explained why it won’t be chopped); but, even if it does remain, it just seems like this service is being diluted - slippery slope to frequency becoming once every 2 hours perhaps?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


No other choice though - Barrow, Sileby and Syston are served solely by that service; although stations like Attenborough are served by multiple services. But yes, as you say, quicker to travel IC between Leicester and the larger stations between there and Nottingham.
I would agree, I would be very surprised if the Ivanhoe line sees any reduction, whenever I have travelled on it, it seems well used. When you look at the level of service some stations such as Swinderby (Lincs) get they will be up for the chopper first. Until we see the timetable it is impossible to say why they did it. I remember the original 2025 timetable consultation said a long dwell time would be required at Nottingham heading west. If that was too long then I suspect it just wasn't worth maintaining the through service. That is speculation on my part. The other speculation is that it may have just resulted in bunching of trains between Nottingham and Leicester if it had remained part of the lincolnshire route.

In a perfect world, I can see the logic of having Leicester as the destination of one Lincolnshire service and Derby (and Beyond) the other. Lincoln - Birmingham passengers can continue to change at Nottingham - it isn't that bad :) (Although I would welcome the return of a direct service either via Derby or Leicester)
 

Spartacus

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That section used to have some serious speed restrictions, especially over one bridge. Not sure what the heaviest train is over that section now.

I can't remember anything prohibitive from my days on coal traffic to Cottam and West Burton, though that's a while back now. Surely better than trying to thread a needle through Sheffield though, just follow the Nottingham from Worksop? Probably getting a bit O/T though.
 

Llandudno

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Not very, especially given the franchise agreement (albeit I well know, like the rest of us, that is dead in the water) promised Sunday services for Ivanhoe stations. So, we’ve gone from that to no calls beyond Nottingham.

I’ve already made known my suspicions about this becoming a gradual chopping of the Ivanhoe service (to which other users have very likely explained why it won’t be chopped); but, even if it does remain, it just seems like this service is being diluted - slippery slope to frequency becoming once every 2 hours perhaps?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


No other choice though - Barrow, Sileby and Syston are served solely by that service; although stations like Attenborough are served by multiple services. But yes, as you say, quicker to travel IC between Leicester and the larger stations between there and Nottingham.
I doubt that there will be any reductions to the Nottingham - Leicester stopping service especially as the East Midlands now has its own Mayor, Claire Ward ..!
 

Peregrine 4903

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Not very, especially given the franchise agreement (albeit I well know, like the rest of us, that is dead in the water) promised Sunday services for Ivanhoe stations. So, we’ve gone from that to no calls beyond Nottingham.

I’ve already made known my suspicions about this becoming a gradual chopping of the Ivanhoe service (to which other users have very likely explained why it won’t be chopped); but, even if it does remain, it just seems like this service is being diluted - slippery slope to frequency becoming once every 2 hours perhaps?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


No other choice though - Barrow, Sileby and Syston are served solely by that service; although stations like Attenborough are served by multiple services. But yes, as you say, quicker to travel IC between Leicester and the larger stations between there and Nottingham.
I'm confused as to what basis you think this is as a slope to the service becoming 2 hourly?

That is most certainly not the plan.
 

Trainman40083

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I can't remember anything prohibitive from my days on coal traffic to Cottam and West Burton, though that's a while back now. Surely better than trying to thread a needle through Sheffield though, just follow the Nottingham from Worksop? Probably getting a bit O/T though.

I doubt that there will be any reductions to the Nottingham - Leicester stopping service especially as the East Midlands now has its own Mayor, Claire Ward ..!
One wonders if the service will ever become Nottingham to Coventry? Been a lot of talk of it
 

edwin_m

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I doubt that there will be any reductions to the Nottingham - Leicester stopping service especially as the East Midlands now has its own Mayor, Claire Ward ..!
Unlikely. Leicester/shire opted out so she only covers Notts, Derbys and the respective cities.
 

QSK19

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I'm confused as to what basis you think this is as a slope to the service becoming 2 hourly?

That is most certainly not the plan.
I’ve expressed a trend that the Leicester-Lincoln/Grimsby Town service has been diluted since the franchise award - I stated 2 hourly as a figurative example of how it could be diluted more.

What I am getting at is that curtailing Leicester Regional services is, at face value, very concerning. Faced with that, local users - like myself - may worry that it’ll decline even further.
 

cle

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These cuts (to shorter shuttles) should really be compensated by an uplift in frequency. The same conversation happens a lot with TPE York-Scarborough.

Leicester-Nottingham as a local makes sense, but really as a higher frequency service. Leicester is not a great terminating station either, esp for more TPH, but I'm not sure what else you'd do with it.
 

tram21

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How many passengers actually go from "Leicester-East Midlands Parkway stations" to stations beyond Nottingham? Surely it can't be many? And how many would actually be impacted by having to change to a regular service (2tph) at Nottingham?

Surely the vast majority would prefer a more reliable service which will come from stopping at Nottingham (as has been seen on Matlock services) than the through service?
 

Halish Railway

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What I am getting at is that curtailing Leicester Regional services is, at face value, very concerning. Faced with that, local users - like myself - may worry that it’ll decline even further.
The flip side of the Ivanhoe stopper no longer continuing beyond Nottingham is that it should be fairly easy to convert the service to electric traction if electrification of the rest of the MML happens any time soon.

If electrification of the entire MML and further GBR integration happens in the next few years then I don’t see this timetable lasting too long. With integration between operators it is likely that stakeholders would want one of the Lincolnshire services to run through to Birmingham instead of Matlock/Crewe. Likewise it would be a bit silly for Matlock services to be worked by a DMU if electrification exists between Nottingham and Ambergate Junction, rather than a bi-mode or battery multiple unit.
 

tram21

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The flip side of the Ivanhoe stopper no longer continuing beyond Nottingham is that it should be fairly easy to convert the service to electric traction if electrification of the rest of the MML happens any time soon.

If electrification of the entire MML and further GBR integration happens in the next few years then I don’t see this timetable lasting too long. With integration between operators it is likely that stakeholders would want one of the Lincolnshire services to run through to Birmingham instead of Matlock/Crewe. Likewise it would be a bit silly for Matlock services to be worked by a DMU if electrification exists between Nottingham and Ambergate Junction, rather than a bi-mode or battery multiple unit.
That's all a long way off, but I do agree with you in the far future!
 

Failed Unit

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These cuts (to shorter shuttles) should really be compensated by an uplift in frequency. The same conversation happens a lot with TPE York-Scarborough.

Leicester-Nottingham as a local makes sense, but really as a higher frequency service. Leicester is not a great terminating station either, esp for more TPH, but I'm not sure what else you'd do with it.
Probably one for a speculative thread, send in to Birmingham (When GBR comes in then it can be joined with the XC service), If you were going to go 2tph surely your would alternate between Nottingham and Derby.
 

greataj

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"If the current Lincoln service will only go as far as Nottingham, the only purpose this route will now have for Leicester is the intermediate calls in Syston, Sileby, Barrow and Attenborough, given that Loughborough, East Midlands Parkway and Beeston are already covered with the Intercity routes."

Just on this particular point, Loughborough may have the Intercity services but the stopper does have a very useful purpose - it gives Loughborough a service to Nottingham roughly every half hour instead of every hour, which is very useful (to me, anyhow - I use it frequently) In the Nottingham direction the service is not much slower than the Intercity service, unlike in the Leicester direction where the obvious choice is to get the Intercity service if not travelling to the intermediate stations.
Which is exactly my point. I know there's still other advantages that service will have along route, like the one you've pointed out with Loughborough-Nottingham, but I was talking specifically from a Leicester perspective.

What I would really like to see in an ideal world, though I'm sure not practical to do, would be a local service extending south of Leicester to Kettering alongside Intercity trains, similarly to how the Ivenhoe line does to the north. There's alot of untapped local potential there with new stations you could add in Desborough, Kibworth and potentially a replacement station for Wigston that's better located. I feel this could even be done in a similar way to how the WAML operates, with local services sharing the same 2-track section down to Market Harborough, then adding a third platform there to the east of the newly built existing ones to use as a passing loop, with probably a bay platform needing to go into Kettering. I also think one-hourly Intercity train should call again in Wellingborough either in addition or, under this scenario, perhaps even as a replacement to one of the Market Harborough calls since they would gain a local service, but it would mean London services from there cut to 1tph.
 

Martin_1981

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Doubt it very much, unless you introduce a reversal in the Nuneaton area and potentially crossing the WCML on the flat.
I thought reinstating a direct service between Leicester and Coventry was part of the Midlands Rail Hub project which was announced 3-4 years ago, with a dive under/tunnel at the South end of Nuneaton station being proposed Or is that now dead in the water? If so, extending the Nottingham - Leicester local service to Birmingham would be beneficial as a 3rd hourly service between Leicester and Birmingham to help alleviate overcrowding on this route. This could give South Wigston an hourly service instead of every 2 hours and 2 trains per hour for Narborough and Hinckley. The service could act as a 'cross Leicester' service calling at all stations between Hinckley and Loughborough.
 

Trainman40083

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I thought reinstating a direct service between Leicester and Coventry was part of the Midlands Rail Hub project which was announced 3-4 years ago, with a dive under/tunnel at the South end of Nuneaton station being proposed Or is that now dead in the water? If so, extending the Nottingham - Leicester local service to Birmingham would be beneficial as a 3rd hourly service between Leicester and Birmingham to help alleviate overcrowding on this route. This could give South Wigston an hourly service instead of every 2 hours and 2 trains per hour for Narborough and Hinckley. The service could act as a 'cross Leicester' service calling at all stations between Hinckley and Loughborough.
Extending Nottingham to Leicester, would potentially involve the service changing operator from EMR to XC...
 

bunnahabhain

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I thought reinstating a direct service between Leicester and Coventry was part of the Midlands Rail Hub project which was announced 3-4 years ago, with a dive under/tunnel at the South end of Nuneaton station being proposed Or is that now dead in the water? If so, extending the Nottingham - Leicester local service to Birmingham would be beneficial as a 3rd hourly service between Leicester and Birmingham to help alleviate overcrowding on this route. This could give South Wigston an hourly service instead of every 2 hours and 2 trains per hour for Narborough and Hinckley. The service could act as a 'cross Leicester' service calling at all stations between Hinckley and Loughborough.
I can't see the Coventry proposal ever happening and it doesn't need to if reliable connections could be made at Nuneaton. EMR were originally barred from serving Birmingham New Street as the West Midlands Rail Executive wanted the XC routes to Leicester and Nottingham under their control, and not the control of the East Midlands. Whether that bar still stands now that it isn't a franchise, who knows.
 

QSK19

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I can't see the Coventry proposal ever happening and it doesn't need to if reliable connections could be made at Nuneaton. EMR were originally barred from serving Birmingham New Street as the West Midlands Rail Executive wanted the XC routes to Leicester and Nottingham under their control, and not the control of the East Midlands. Whether that bar still stands now that it isn't a franchise, who knows.
Begs the question of how/why the WMRE became ultimate arbiter?! Thought the DfT would have the final say over something.

Mind you, the DfT have always screwed over the East Midlands and gone out of their way to make it a second-class operation. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride (or even the maid of honour).
 
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