East Coast rumours?

[Failed Unit]

Agree entirely. It's brilliant how it's escalating daily - apparently (above) Virgin are arguing about having to relivery into Virgin colours.

They must be pretty confident they're retaining the franchise then. Maybe someone from DfT or the Rosco could actually have one painted in ECML colours.

Game for a laugh, Richard?

I wonder if Richard has heard of Viynl? Maybe I should stick some East Coast Decals and maps on a pendo. I hope if it does happen it is on a service that I never normally need to use. The lack of Pendo's has always been the positive thing about London - Scotland travel on the ECML.

 

[Geezertronic]

I doubt that Richard (Branson) has anything to do with the day to day running of Virgin Trains?

 

[paul1609]

I wonder if Richard has heard of Viynl? Maybe I should stick some East Coast Decals and maps on a pendo. I hope if it does happen it is on a service that I never normally need to use. The lack of Pendo's has always been the positive thing about London - Scotland travel on the ECML.

Really? I usually change at Carlisle rather than spend 5 hours in a MK4 seat. I normally find the back pain insufferable after about Newcastle.

 

[sprinterguy]

Really? I usually change at Carlisle rather than spend 5 hours in a MK4 seat. I normally find the back pain insufferable after about Newcastle.

Mark 4s all the way for me! Pendolinos are dark and claustrophobic. I've got to say, I'm quite happy with Pendos; now that the faults and niggles have largely been dealth with, I think they're a good quality train and quite pleasant to travel on. BUT, it's interesting how they stack up against the mark 4s: Both are tilting profile vehicles designed for 140mph operation and yet the mark 4s offer a much brighter, pleasanter environment, better window alignment and seem to have MUCH more space entirely. the 20 year old train wins hands down over the younger Pendolino. I do sometimes find the ride in a mark 4 to be a bit stiff though.

EDIT: And if East Coast is to be handed it's own Pendolino, I'd want to see it used on the planned London-Edinburgh daily "fast" service: If it's an attempt to compete with the airlines, then the airline passengers it attracts won't notice much of a difference! It's good to have a standard service level, isn't it?
Plus that keeps it on one regular diagram with a standard maintenance cycle, and means that there won't be a variation in interior standards across the regular services. Plus it would set the Fast service apart from the other slower anglo-scottish workings and help to differentiate it from the norm.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

The Pendolino is now on Rail magazine, too!

Very nice picture, mind.


http://www.rail-magazine.com/news/default.asp?storyID=25

 

[DaveNewcastle]

One thing EC HAS just done is re-launch their "Minature Prices" low-price Advance ticket advertising campaign, with door to door leaflet drops and localised campaigns concentrating on journeys from local stations.

Apologies for presuming to quote from my own post.
I think some of you might like this, (if you haven't seen it before). Its a video of the making of E.C's Minature Prices TV ads - http://www.youtube.com/user/EastCoastTrains

 

[silentone]

The big announcement is due shortly and the changes will take effect from the Eureka launch date.

There is going to be some modifications/refits and new catering equipment in place for Eureka. The HST's seem to be receiving the most attention although the MK4's won't escape untouched.

East Coast also want to replace all the onboard Coffee Machines and suitable alternatives (different machine) are now being sought.


On the subject of rumours, are MK4's cleared for running via Carlisle?

 

[swt_passenger]

On the subject of rumours, are MK4's cleared for running via Carlisle?

According to the baseline declaration Mk4s and 91s can be dragged through the Tyne Valley to Carlisle with the following caveat:

"AC locos with pantographs down but not locked are limited to 15 mph through Whitchester tunnel east of Haltwhistle."
(Very similar to running through Sunderland in fact...)

They don't seem to be cleared north of Carlisle though...

 

[The Planner]

They are clear up the West Coast yes. For some reason they havent been considered from Gretna to Carstairs, but they have North of there.

 

[Aictos]

When electric locos have to have their pans lowered and locked, how are they secured?

 

[NightatLaira]

Mark 4s all the way for me! Pendolinos are dark and claustrophobic. I've got to say, I'm quite happy with Pendos; now that the faults and niggles have largely been dealth with, I think they're a good quality train and quite pleasant to travel on. BUT, it's interesting how they stack up against the mark 4s: Both are tilting profile vehicles designed for 140mph operation and yet the mark 4s offer a much brighter, pleasanter environment, better window alignment and seem to have MUCH more space entirely. the 20 year old train wins hands down over the younger Pendolino. I do sometimes find the ride in a mark 4 to be a bit stiff though.

EDIT: And if East Coast is to be handed it's own Pendolino, I'd want to see it used on the planned London-Edinburgh daily "fast" service: If it's an attempt to compete with the airlines, then the airline passengers it attracts won't notice much of a difference! It's good to have a standard service level, isn't it?
Plus that keeps it on one regular diagram with a standard maintenance cycle, and means that there won't be a variation in interior standards across the regular services. Plus it would set the Fast service apart from the other slower anglo-scottish workings and help to differentiate it from the norm.

Seems they will be using it on KX to Edinburgh diagrams sadly - I too would rather it be relegated to a Leeds diagram but it's probably to do with the loco being maintained in Glasgow that they want it on a Scottish diagram.

I would have thought it more efficient to run a Glasgow Cenrtal to Kings Cross service via the ECML with 2 returns bringing it back to Glasgow late at night each day - at least then it wouldn't have to do these 'dead runs' between Edinburgh and Polmadie TMD.


I wonder how East Coast will provide their 'at seat restaurant service' considering they will soon have a Pendo - that could be interesting - I don't think Pendo's have galleys as such - and the shop will be a shock to the system of people used to a buffet.

 

[ukrob]

I wonder how East Coast will provide their 'at seat restaurant service' considering they will soon have a Pendo - that could be interesting - I don't think Pendo's have galleys as such - and the shop will be a shock to the system of people used to a buffet.

They do, and a very good one at that. It is in the first class driving car. There are only 18 seats in that coach as opposed to 48 in the standard class driving car.

 

[silentone]

If you had read an earlier post you will have been able to see that MK4 sets will still be running ECS to Glasgow for overnight servicing. Craigentinny cannot handle the number of sets due to be stabled in Edinburgh overnight once Eureka comes into force.

How East Coast will use the shop layout on the Pendolino is not something currently being discussed as East Coast catering have some bigger projects to tackle first.

The future of East Coast restaurant services is unclear and may not fit with the current proposed plans, however Restaurant services with East Coast are being expanded with more trains set to receive Restaurant services for a trial period including some at Lunchtime. Some services will also get at-seat dining.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . as East Coast catering have some bigger projects to tackle first.

The future of East Coast restaurant services is unclear and may not fit with the current proposed plans, however Restaurant services with East Coast are being expanded with more trains set to receive Restaurant services for a trial period including some at Lunchtime.

Excellent news!

Just what I'd been hopeing for!
(I took the earlier post about the improved coffee making machines as just a teaser for more good catering news to follow)!

Not sure about the "unclear and may not fit in" issue, but will all be clear soon. As long as all staff are secure.

 

[captainbigun]

When electric locos have to have their pans lowered and locked, how are they secured?

Rope/tie wraps etc etc. It means getting on the roof basically.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Rope/tie wraps etc etc. It means getting on the roof basically.

Some of what gets posted on this site simply beggars belief!!:roll:

 

[captainbigun]

Some of what gets posted on this site simply beggars belief!!:roll:

And how many pans have you tied down?!

Brecknell Willis don't have a 'lock-down pan' part in their stores.....

 

[E&W Lucas]

Well I've dragged plenty of electrics, and never seen anyone climb up on a roof!

 

[captainbigun]

Due to restricted clearances some routes require that the pan is physically restrained, i.e. tied down. Speed limits may be imposed as well. It is also normal for the APC receiver to be removed on many non electrified routes (that aren't diversionary) as technically it would put the vehicle out of gauge.

It features on the NRAP for the class in question and should be part of the FTR.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Due to restricted clearances some routes require that the pan is physically restrained, i.e. tied down.

That explains it - I'm talking about bona fide diversions, or dragging failures. Sorry, I thought it was another spotter being "clever".

 

[Aictos]

Rope/tie wraps etc etc. It means getting on the roof basically.

Ah thanks, I've seen electric traction go though with their pans lowered ie the Southern 313s going off to Doncaster but not having much if anything to do with the maintenance side of the industry I've always wondered how they secured the pans other then just lowering them.

That explains it - I'm talking about bona fide diversions, or dragging failures. Sorry, I thought it was another spotter being "clever".

Yes okay but I do work on the railway as any number of members here can confirm, I just have a keen interest in how things are done.

 

[captainbigun]

That explains it - I'm talking about bona fide diversions, or dragging failures. Sorry, I thought it was another spotter being "clever".

No problem

 

[At_traction]

Due to restricted clearances some routes require that the pan is physically restrained, i.e. tied down.

And the distance the current on a 25 kV overhead wire can jump is...? [no smiley]

Or do regulations state that live wire will have to be switched off from the section - which must be several miles in length?

Just wonderin'.

 

[222666]

Only just looked at this & thought I was reading an April fools joke!

A 390 on the EC, why?

That article (Railway Eye) with it's tone & sarcasm surely must be a wind-up. It speaks of something to replace the ageing 225 yet the even older HST will be running all the way up to Edinburgh. Wow, way to promote electrification. It strikes me that we are in need of another major revolution on the UK rail network.

Way to insult people traveling on the EC. If you stand on Peterborough you can see it is in desperate need of "the Rugby treatment" (modernisation, more platforms etc... part of route upgrade?), certainly I fail to see the point in running "A Pendolino" until the line is upgraded for it. Yes it will hurt but lessons learnt from WCML & all that should help.

Is it meant to be a consolation prize for loosing NoL Eurostars?

There seems to be some Jealousy of Branson & some point scoring by taking away a 390 or two for a route not designed for them. Just seems a bit childish to me. They should start by not running diesel where there is electric, maybe replace 43s with 92s in HST sets? I think at this stage the DfT need to worry about ECML, not what branson is doing. They are just skirting round the issue imo :-x

 

[Aictos]

Well if you must discuss the usage of HSTs over electric routes then:

The Leeds to Skipton route should have had better OHL equipment, no 91s can run on the route.
The Leeds to Harrogate route should also have been electrified.
The Doncaster to Hull via Selby route ought to have been electrified.
The Tyne Valley route between Carlisle and Newcastle would also have been a good route to wire up.
Also wiring up the GN/GE joint line as well.

This way the HSTs would be used on the Angle-Scottish routes to Aberdeen/Inverness if the 91s were not able to be dragged.
Plus it would mean you wouldn't need to worry about using diesels south of Edinburgh.

It's hardly going to happen but if all that was done when the ECML got done then just maybe more HSTs would have been available for Virgin Cross Country to refurbish and use on the long routes.

 

[tbtc]

There is a lot of diesel on the ECML (for example, the six or seven trains from York to Northallerton each hour will often be just one electric one).

However, what's the alternative? Get rid of direct trains to London from places like Hull/ Aberdeen/ Inverness? And what electric trains are there to replace the HSTs?

If you think using a 390 on the ECML is "an insult to passengers" then I'm really not sure how to response

 

[captainbigun]

And the distance the current on a 25 kV overhead wire can jump is...? [no smiley]

Or do regulations state that live wire will have to be switched off from the section - which must be several miles in length?

Just wonderin'.

That depends on atmostpheric conditions, resistance to earth etc etc etc. Generally speaking I wouldn't want to be waving my hand within a couple of feet. Getting in the cab is about as close as you'd want to be.

Where the pan is tied down, it's because of low bridges/tunnels etc etc, not because of the proximity to the overheads.

 

[At_traction]

Where the pan is tied down, it's because of low bridges/tunnels etc etc, not because of the proximity to the overheads.

I know that - rather the question was about what are the preparatory safety measures before someone climbs to the roof of a loco to tie down a pantograph. I assume that one must be fully on the roof for that and that would be rather hair-raising with a live wire just above.

 

[The_Stig]

I know that - rather the question was about what are the preparatory safety measures before someone climbs to the roof of a loco to tie down a pantograph. I assume that one must be fully on the roof for that and that would be rather hair-raising with a live wire just above.

It's not done with the loco/unit under a live wire.

 

[222666]

There is a lot of diesel on the ECML (for example, the six or seven trains from York to Northallerton each hour will often be just one electric one).

However, what's the alternative? Get rid of direct trains to London from places like Hull/ Aberdeen/ Inverness? And what electric trains are there to replace the HSTs?

If you think using a 390 on the ECML is "an insult to passengers" then I'm really not sure how to response

I was just shooting the breeze if it's possible to have one loco per rake of mkIIIs, be they diesel or electric, it was more an observation that HSTs seem to run the Newcastle or Edinburghs. Ofcourse you'd need to do something with the back end like a DVT but they're all taken?

I think it might be an insult to a few people if they compare their route to the WCML. I know people on WCML had to put up with grief for what they have now, but one new train on the EC hardly compares, it's a small gesture really (imo)

Back to my point about diesel or electric, I'm guessing it's not possible to push/pull a rake + 43 with an AC loco?