Driver Only Operation

[hassaanhc]

I find this an interesting topic; because as a mere passenger I've never actually felt unsafe on a DOO service. But the signals being given out by the rail unions is somewhat mixed.

I've not felt at risk either on DOO trains, but the only ones I regularly use with DOO are on LUL.

It's not just safety either - as a passenger, I'd much rather have a guaranteed member of staff in addition to the driver (incidentally, the minority of guards who never venture from the back cab are doing the rest of their grade a great disservice!) to provide a visible presence, assist passengers and of course look after revenue more consistently than occasional RPIs ever could. It's recently been suggested, on here, that the combination of loss of revenue and the cost of delays caused by increased dwell time (when there's no-one to hurry passengers along!) would probably outweigh the savings from DOO anyway.

Hear hear!!!! Surveys have proved that the passengers like to see a face on the train for advice, train times, or just to pass the time of day with. Also, it has been proved that on lines that have DOO, there are more occasions of assault and general disorder on trains.
Of course, LM's Guards will have to work a lot harder in the near future, as LM have taken it upon themselves to threaten 231 RPI's with their jobs!! As we speak, they are on 45 days consultation!!!! Then the pressure will be on us to deliver the revenue AND the safe working of the train!!!

I remember when I used South West Trains for the first time in 2012 it was only after I used their services a few times that I discovered there was a guard. As someone who was 17 at the time (now 19) and grown up using mainly LUL services I certainly didn't expect to find a guard on local services in the London area so it came as a surprise to me. Since then I've come to regularly use their services and do like the fact that there is a member of staff dedicated to the needs of the passengers and of course also trained in helping out the driver when needed (like the door fault towards the rear of the 450 I was on once). Most of them do make an announcement just after departing the terminus and Clapham Junction, welcoming passengers on board and informing them of their current location in the train if help is needed. And of course to enforce First Class on the services that have it

 

[causton]

Of course, LM's Guards will have to work a lot harder in the near future, as LM have taken it upon themselves to threaten 231 RPI's with their jobs!! As we speak, they are on 45 days consultation!!!!

And to think I was going to suggest LM had more RPIs... caught a train from Redditch and about half the carriage it seemed were ready to run off the train if a guard came through for a ticket inspection!

 

[TheKnightWho]

Quite possibly, yes. However, there are no automatically driven main line trains anywhere in the world as of yet. Computers could only run the trains when things run smoothly. As soon as you get a delay, or you need to implement total block working, or wrong line working, the computers will fall down.
Let me give you an example.
A few months ago, a Southern train broke down at Harrow and Wealdstone, and we came to a stand about three miles past Wembley Central. The signaller had managed to route the services behind us out onto the Fast Lines, but there was us, another LM service in front of us, and a freight in front of that before the failed unit. The Signaller requested the driver to run bang road back to North Wembley Junction to be crossed over, kick all the punters off there and run empties back to Euston, for me and the driver to pick up our diagrams there. Now, the computers couldn't do that, I'm fairly certain. There will always need to be at least one (preferably two, for obvious reasons) members of staff on board trains.

Re the James Street incident - I reckon that was an unsafe conviction. On another day, with another judge, that Guard would never have gone to prison.

I agree that a member of staff on board would be required for dealing with passengers et al., but I'm not convinced computers are incapable of dealing with unusual situations. Indeed, that's where they tend to come into their own - running the rail network is an ideal problem for them, as they would know exactly how to route what where and when to make things run smoothly; this would especially be the case if there are delays etc., as it would be able to quickly work out how to mitigate the problems caused by it etc. Computers are excellent at spotting logistical solutions that even the best human problem solvers miss. This is assuming it's programmed well, of course...

Of course, I'm referring to automatic trains controlled by a central mainframe (that would of course be monitored by humans), as opposed to one on the train "just following orders".

 

[Carlisle]

Agreed computers could probably cope with that type of scenario far quicker than us but telling the difference between a human ,fox ,badger ,deer or whatever crossing the line in front of the said train is where there is still much progress required as far as I know

 

[Mojo]

It's already been stated that the discussion on DOO vs conventional operating of passenger services has been done to death on here many times before. Consequently I'm going to have to lock this thread owing to unfortunate poor form on such threads before.