Does the railway industry recognise acoustic shock disorder (ASD)

[delt1c]

I don't "expect" anything. I originally asked the question in the "hope" that some very knowledgeable staff in the industry "might" offer up some insight.

I am quite aware that one has to pay for a legal expert but what's the harm in asking?

The risk is you get incorrect advice. You will get a lot of advice but how do you know what is correct

 

[mpthomson]

Yes it is very real but not well recognised (yet). It is different to occupational noise exposure which is a gradual occurrance as opposed to a sudden, unexpected sound such as a train horn, explosion, firework etc.

This is incorrect, there is no such thing as acoustic shock disorder, it's not recognised as a condition by either diagnostic manual. Acoustic shock exists, but not as a long term disorder. What it is is a set of symptoms caused by noise exposure and related to another ear condition called TTTS, which CAN have long term effects and acoustic shock may trigger. There is no difference between the symptoms suffered either as a one off or as prolonged exposure.

 

[mpthomson]

If anything they're likely to have been wearing appropriate hearing protection and expecting a loud noise. Its those of us who have spent our time 'down range' who are more likely to experience sudden, unexpected noises.

As for this thread's main topic, speaking with an audiology colleague earlier his opinion is that the drive to 'recognise' ASD is being pushed far more by the legal community than the medical one. Make of that what you will.

Agreed completely.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

This is incorrect, there is no such thing as acoustic shock disorder, it's not recognised as a condition by either diagnostic manual. Acoustic shock exists, but not as a long term disorder. What it is is a set of symptoms caused by noise exposure and related to another ear condition called TTTS, which CAN have long term effects and acoustic shock may trigger. There is no difference between the symptoms suffered either as a one off or as prolonged exposure.

With respect, I disagree with the first part of your first sentence, but then you go and contradict yourself in the second sentence.

TTTS can occur as a result of acoustic shock and has ramifications for prolonged anxiety and fear of sounds

 

[nuts & bolts]

Has the Shunter been to see the Occupational Health dept of his/her TOC yet, this question of ASD recognition is something they should be aware of?

 

[fergusjbend]

Ah, another addition to the ever expanding catalogue of dubious diseases, all with catchy three-letter acronyms (or TLAs for short)! Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME -damn!- only two letters), Fibromyalgia Syndrome, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, Repetitive Strain Injury, etc etc etc. And now ASD.

The only characteristics that all these syndromes have in common is the absence of any demonstrable and consistent pathological basis, and their almost magical ability to generate income for lawyers.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Has the Shunter been to see the Occupational Health dept of his/her TOC yet, this question of ASD recognition is something they should be aware of?

He says he has but I'm guessing from some of the responses on here that OH will not have heard of ASD (as it is a new and emerging condition)

 

[Esker-pades]

Points:

1: There are quite a few disabilities (autism for one) that are associated with very low toleration of sudden/loud etc. noise. Just focusing on one is pointless.

2: Please define what you mean by "recognition". It is a very vague term.

3: Railways are intrinsically loud places. It would have a serious affect on safety to not have things like horns, whistles and so on. Therefore, railways being less loud is not going to be a thing. I would recommend a set of earplugs. They are inexpensive and dampen any loud and triggering noises. I use them. They are useful.

 

[coppercapped]

He says he has but I'm guessing from some of the responses on here that OH will not have heard of ASD (as it is a new and emerging condition)

I find it difficult to accept that it is a 'new and emerging condition' since gunpowder was first developed by the ancient Chinese, Roger Bacon described it in England in 1267 and firearms as a weapon of war became commonplace in the 17th century. Sudden, loud and unexpected bangs have been around for a long time.

If 'ASD' exists it would have been described earlier than its first apparent appearance a few weeks ago in the UK.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Points:1: There are quite a few disabilities (autism for one) that are associated with very low toleration of sudden/loud etc. noise.

Thank you but he is not autistic

 

[6Gman]

Ah, another addition to the ever expanding catalogue of dubious diseases, all with catchy three-letter acronyms (or TLAs for short)! Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME -damn!- only two letters), Fibromyalgia Syndrome, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, Repetitive Strain Injury, etc etc etc. And now ASD.

The only characteristics that all these syndromes have in common is the absence of any demonstrable and consistent pathological basis, and their almost magical ability to generate income for lawyers.

As a sufferer from one of those conditions I can assure you that lawyers have never been involved. On the other hand GPs, Consultant Physiologist, Occupational Health Consultant and Consultant Endocrinologist are all of the view that there is a consistent pathological basis.

 

[6Gman]

I find it difficult to accept that it is a 'new and emerging condition' since gunpowder was first developed by the ancient Chinese, Roger Bacon described it in England in 1267 and firearms as a weapon of war became commonplace in the 17th century. Sudden, loud and unexpected bangs have been around for a long time.

If 'ASD' exists it would have been described earlier than its first apparent appearance a few weeks ago in the UK.

It has been the subject of academic research since the 1990s. It emerged initially in call centres (a relatively recent environment) which use earpieces.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I find it difficult to accept that it is a 'new and emerging condition' since gunpowder was first developed by the ancient Chinese, Roger Bacon described it in England in 1267 and firearms as a weapon of war became commonplace in the 17th century. Sudden, loud and unexpected bangs have been around for a long time.

If 'ASD' exists it would have been described earlier than its first apparent appearance a few weeks ago in the UK.

Yes, but even the term acoustic trauma had not been described then and had to wait until as late as the 20th century before it was officially understood (and accepted) that noise was harmful to the ears and legislation came into being to protect workers

But ASD carries more of a psychological insult than acoustic trauma and it is the psychological component that is starting to be recognised

 

[mpthomson]

With respect, I disagree with the first part of your first sentence, but then you go and contradict yourself in the second sentence.

TTTS can occur as a result of acoustic shock and has ramifications for prolonged anxiety and fear of sounds

There’s no contradiction. And it doesn’t matter whether you agree or not but the fact is that Acoustic Shock Disorder as a condition does not exist except in the eyes of ambulance chasing lawyers. There are conditions that may arise from noise exposure but none are called ASD.

 

[mpthomson]

Yes, but even the term acoustic trauma had not been described then and had to wait until as late as the 20th century before it was officially understood (and accepted) that noise was harmful to the ears and legislation came into being to protect workers

But ASD carries more of a psychological insult than acoustic trauma and it is the psychological component that is starting to be recognised

Sorry but this is nonsense. The effect of gunfire and other industrial noise on the ears has been known and accepted ‘officially’ for hundreds of years. What changed was that realising that it might be nice to protect soldiers/workersfrom the noise rather than just treating them as cannon fodder/not much more than slaves in earlier wars of attrition/early industrial revolution where ear Defence was not anything like as technically advanced as it is now and it would have been an expensive luxury with negligible benefit.

 

[whhistle]

I am not implying anything.

I have been asked by two people whether they have a legitimate case and I don't know the answer - hence my (specific) question to the forum

I suspect not. That's like complaining that airports are loud.

It's to be expected and unfortunately in life, those who have any disability have just that - a disability. It means however much they feel it's "right" and however much they want it, life, in certain situations will be harder and in many cases there's nothing that humans can do to resolve it. It's the nature of having a disability.

Best advice is this:

You could perhaps try writing to the train companies direct.

But I suspect you'd get a more polite reply along the lines of what has been written here.

 

[LAX54]

Acoording to webisites, it is high pitched tones that cause it , an extract from the H&S site says:
'Acoustic shock' is a term used in connection with incidents involving exposure to short duration, high frequency, high intensity sounds through a telephone headset. Some sources suggest that these incidents are associated with a range of physiological and psychological symptoms that have been reported amongst headset wearers. It has not been established whether the reported symptoms are caused directly by exposure to these unexpected sounds. There is no clear single cause of these incidents, but one cause may be interference on the telephone line. Although call handlers may be shocked or startled by the sounds, exposure to them should not cause hearing damage as assessed by conventional methods

and from 'Hear.it' org.....

What is an Acoustic shock? Acoustic shock is the term for the condition which can arise after being exposed to unexpected loud sounds via telephones. Employees at call centres who work with headsets on are particularly at risk.

Sounds which can trigger acoustic shock can stem from feedback oscillation, fax tones or signalling tones, which are all High Pitched Tones (HPT).

It is typically employees in call centres who are at risk of experiencing acoustic shock since they are often exposed to these sounds during their workday and sit with headsets on most of the day. Even just listening to the callers at a high level can contribute to the risk of acoustic shock.




seems mainly caused by long use of telephones.