Does the railway industry recognise acoustic shock disorder (ASD)

[Islineclear3_1]

Mods...feel free to move if posted in wrong section

I ask this as I know a couple of people who have been traumatized by sudden, unexpected loud noise (e.g. train horns, shriek through a radio earpiece) and report a host of other related symptoms not present prior to their acoustic incidents. One of them wants to sue a TOC and I know ASD does have medico-legal implications in the call centre industry

 

[Raul_Duke]

Here we go again.


https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/unacceptable-whistleblowing-at-blackfriars.159323/

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Here we go again.


https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/unacceptable-whistleblowing-at-blackfriars.159323/

Thank you but it does not answer my question. And that thread is not the reason for my question

 

[Intermodal]

Whilst my upmost sympathies are issued to those afflicted by this disorder, frankly when we cannot even have a majority of railway stations/ticket machines accessible to wheelchair users, there are far higher priorities to address. The safety implications of not having loud noises as a tool to awareness on the railway are huge, and the blind community certainly is far larger than the acoustic shock disorder community, and loud noises are essential to this community.

Reasonable concessions should of course always be made to those with a disability, but I am unsure what your query regards - are you implying there should be no loud noises on the railway? Are you wondering whether the railway is liable for distress caused by loud noises? There are loud noises in almost any public place - and while it is most upsetting and sad that those afflicted with any disorder should have the misfortune to be unable to live their life as 'normally' as others not afflicted by it - ultimately the cards are dealt as such that these people, in the minority in society, will face further hardships than the majority without. This is not a legal issue, or an issue that the railway is practically able to concede for, but one that the diagnosed must deal with themselves - be it by wearing ear defenders or other coping methods. Sad as it may be, we are now on a planet with 7+ billion people, and accounting for the individual needs of all of those is impossible. We can only do our best - and people with such conditions will have to do their best, too.

Can you clarify your query?

 

[takno]

You could perhaps try writing to the train companies direct. All I'd expect you to get from this thread is a mild torrent of probably quite justified irritation.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I am not implying anything.

I have been asked by two people whether they have a legitimate case and I don't know the answer - hence my (specific) question to the forum

 

[Intermodal]

I appreciate what you are trying to achieve here - but I do not believe your query is specific. What does 'recognise' mean? Clearly no TOC is going to have a blanket policy on such an obscure issue as this, and they are going to fight any legal battle which would cost them financially in court, as any good business would. The question, as it stands, is unanswerable - in my view. The best course of action is clearly to seek legal advice, instead of asking here.

 

[Deafdoggie]

If they want to sue, as always, consult a qualified solicitor. They will be able to advise on the chance of success. If they don’t want to pay to consult a solicitor then I’d guess they already know the chances of success!

 

[goblinuser]

Surely it's up to the courts to 'recognise' a situation like this rather than the company? What exactly happened?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

@Andrew NTH

I am not implying anything. Two people have asked me if they have a legitimate case and I do not know the answer - hence my question to this forum

 

[yorkie]

Thank you but it does not answer my question. And that thread is not the reason for my question

I don't understand who you are talking to there.

I am not implying anything.

I have been asked by two people whether they have a legitimate case and I don't know the answer

What happened in their cases?

hence my (specific) question to the forum

Feel free to be specific, but so far you haven't been.

 

[cf111]

I am not implying anything.

I have been asked by two people whether they have a legitimate case and I don't know the answer - hence my (specific) question to the forum

I would suggest these people consult a solicitor rather than relying on the (usually) well-intentioned ramblings of a collection of enthusiasts and staff on this forum.

 

[SPADTrap]

Traumatised by a horn? Yeah I'm sceptical.

 

[yorkie]

I would suggest these people consult a solicitor rather than relying on the (usually) well-intentioned ramblings of a collection of enthusiasts and staff on this forum.

There are some solicitors here but your point is a valid one.

I could ask some barristers tomorrow, but without any details, I am not sure what I would be asking them!

 

[SPADTrap]

How would you even prove the symptoms were as a result of the noise? Suggest to your friends some noise reducing earphones. I have a set I fly planes in. Acoustic bliss for £1500.

 

[Intermodal]

Acoustic bliss for £1500.

You must be buying Bose then!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There are some solicitors here but your point is a valid one.

I could ask some barristers tomorrow, but without any details, I am not sure what I would be asking them!

@yorkie Thank you. The most pressing one is somebody who is/was a depot shunter. He had instructed a driver to proceed and the driver gave a blast on the horn (as per the rule book) which the shunter wasn't expecting. (I doubt this somehow....). The incident has shaken him up; he says he developed tinnitus and noise sensitivity and has nightmares about it. He hasn't gone back to work.

@Speedbird787 I doubt very much that depot shunters would be allowed to wear noise cancellation headphones whilst on duty.

 

[SPADTrap]

You must be buying Bose then!

Once you try them you can't go back, or afford to eat for a long time either

@yorkie Thank you. The most pressing one is somebody who is/was a depot shunter. He had instructed a driver to proceed and the driver gave a blast on the horn (as per the rule book) which the shunter wasn't expecting. (I doubt this somehow....). The incident has shaken him up; he says he developed tinnitus and noise sensitivity and has nightmares about it. He hasn't gone back to work.

@Speedbird787 I doubt very much that depot shunters would be allowed to wear noise cancellation headphones whilst on duty.

Ah, I see. No likely not. Interesting circumstances.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Feel free to be specific, but so far you haven't been.

With respect, the specific clue is in the thread title "Acoustic Shock Disorder"

It appears from the answers so far that members have never heard of this

 

[AlterEgo]

I am not implying anything.

I have been asked by two people whether they have a legitimate case and I don't know the answer - hence my (specific) question to the forum

I don’t know what you’re trying to find out.

If they want to sue a TOC, they need to consult a solicitor.

What do you hope to gain on a forum of enthusiasts?

 

[AlterEgo]

It appears from the answers so far that members have never heard of this

Good pun! Boom boom! (Oh, wait)

 

[yorkie]

With respect, the specific clue is in the thread title "Acoustic Shock Disorder"

With respect, what do mean by 'recognise'?

And how does an answer to the question in the title indicate whether or not a depot shunter has a legal case against a TOC for a horn being correctly blown?

 

[Raul_Duke]

@yorkie Thank you. The most pressing one is somebody who is/was a depot shunter. He had instructed a driver to proceed and the driver gave a blast on the horn (as per the rule book) which the shunter wasn't expecting. (I doubt this somehow....). The incident has shaken him up; he says he developed tinnitus and noise sensitivity and has nightmares about it. He hasn't gone back to work.

@Speedbird787 I doubt very much that depot shunters would be allowed to wear noise cancellation headphones whilst on duty.

Someone who is a shunter should have access to legal advice through their union.....

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What do you hope to gain on a forum of enthusiasts?

Some serious, non-sarcastic answers from experienced rail staff

 

[Islineclear3_1]

With respect, what do mean by 'recognise'?

And how does an answer to the question in the title indicate whether or not a depot shunter has a legal case against a TOC for a horn being correctly blown?

Other industries (e.g. call centres) do recognise ASD and have introduced measures to try and reduce sudden, unexpected spikes of sounds through headsets.

Of course, the railway is very different but I guess now I know the answer

 

[Llanigraham]

@yorkie Thank you. The most pressing one is somebody who is/was a depot shunter. He had instructed a driver to proceed and the driver gave a blast on the horn (as per the rule book) which the shunter wasn't expecting. (I doubt this somehow....). The incident has shaken him up; he says he developed tinnitus and noise sensitivity and has nightmares about it. He hasn't gone back to work.

@Speedbird787 I doubt very much that depot shunters would be allowed to wear noise cancellation headphones whilst on duty.

I suggest that the best people for him to talk to are his union and their solicitors, and not an internet forum.

 

[AlterEgo]

Other industries (e.g. call centres) do recognise ASD and have introduced measures to try and reduce sudden, unexpected spikes of sounds through headsets.

Of course, the railway is very different but I guess now I know the answer

But if you’re trying to assist someone in a legal case, tell them to instruct a solicitor, who will be able to deal with the specifics of the case.

There’s nothing anyone here can do for you to help this guy. The answers you get will be irrelevant.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

This person has already been in touch with a solicitor but have no idea at this moment whether he has any knowledge on medical-legal matters.

Personally I don't think he has a leg to stand on but I didn't want this to just come from me

 

[ComUtoR]

He had instructed a driver to proceed and the driver gave a blast on the horn (as per the rule book) which the shunter wasn't expecting. (I doubt this somehow....).

You might want to rethink 'as per the rulebook' Which they should know as they are a Shunter. Even you can see there is doubt that the horn as unexpected. At any point, especially within a depot, you can expect the horn to be sounded. Required or otherwise.

Someone who is a shunter should have access to legal advice through their union.....

Remember those Unions that we give our support that you seem to despise so much ? They give free legal advice through Thompsons. In the first instance it is given over the phone. They are also very familiar with the working conditions for most of the rail staff and can give very specific advice related to the industry. They may have direct experience with dealing with this already. Raul posts good solid advice here.

Some serious, non-sarcastic answers from experienced rail staff

Getting them to speak to their Union would be the best option. I would also suggest speaking to another department they would be intimately familiar with. Internally there is a lot that can be done and lots of procedure to be followed. They should know that if they are already a Shunter.

But if you’re trying to assist someone in a legal case, tell them to instruct a solicitor, who will be able to deal with the specifics of the case.

Seek legal advice is a sound and sensible option. (seek a specialist)

 

[6Gman]

I claim no specialist insight, but at the risk of being ultracrepidarian (look it up ) ...

I can visualise two examples (at least) where a TOC, like any other employer, could be liable under H&S legislation:

1. If there have been previous reports of noise excessive to a degree which is potentially harmful;
2. Where a new practice or piece of equipment is introduced without an appropriate risk assessment e.g. you replace the horns on a loco with horns which produce double the decibel level, and only discover the fact when they're first used!