-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Distraught mother + pushchair trying to board full trains
- Thread starter GodAtum
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Not really, if its the SWT service then they all have a guard on board.
Hmm... SWT guards do close the doors on people though. I've never ever seen a Northern one do that.
Dwell Times at Gatwick are longish anyway. If ppl were very worried about this, they could go Hatfield to Kings X then cab to Victoria then Gatwick Express. No timing problem then, just negotiating the narrow doors in the 442.
My wife did consider a taxi but I am telling her to relax and it will be absolutely fine. But I do wonder how many people in this situation will just take a cab, or perhaps a coach? I know it's a perception thing and nothing to worry about, but some people will be nervous and apprehensive and not just rude and selfish. Arguably, if they do have trouble or are looked upon as people who shouldn't be there, the former might become the latter.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Might seem like a silly suggestion with a needless change, but would it be worth boarding one of the Sutton services starting at St Albans, and changing at Farringdon for a Gatwick service? The slows starting at St Albans do stable there for a few minutes so there would be no issues getting on there (and obviously, as it starts there, you'd get a seat - plus they tend to be a lot quieter) plus at Farringdon you'd get a longer dwell due to the OHLE/3rd rail crossover?
I'm playing devil's advocate here a bit, but for those who do choose a cab or a coach, isn't that better for both parties if the trains are so full that it's difficult to get on? Or if they feel they will have difficulty in managing?
Of course, no one should be looked on as if they have no right to be there, for the reason you state, but it surely comes down to personal choice in the end. Elderly people with luggage may also choose a coach or a taxi for the same reasons, as they don't have to struggle on and off trains with their bags!
The coach from Stansted to Gatwick stops at Hatfield outside the Galleria...
I think this thread illustrates how dwell times are too short in many cases, resulting on pressure on train crew to keep to the timetable and avoid delays.
The trouble is that increasing dwell time will have a knock on effect on line capacity.
The trouble is that increasing dwell time will have a knock on effect on line capacity.
That's an excellent idea, but I suspect my wife would get more worried with having to think about all that.
As it is, I'll go with her and make sure she gets on the train okay (assuming RPIs let me through) so it's only really Gatwick that will be a problem. I should hopefully be able to meet her when she comes back a week later.
My wife isn't even comfortable sitting in first class when it's declassified!
I do think a fair few people don't use trains for that reason. Irregular users might also be put off by the negative press the railway gets too. In practice, there's usually no problem and staff are very helpful, but how many people even try because they believe that they read/hear?
Even in peak hours, there are often many ways to travel - as Class 377 has suggested - that minimise the problems.
She's taken the coach to Heathrow before, and it was pretty quick, but I suspect the one to Gatwick would be quite a mission. My son might also get a bit restless. Not only that, but he loves going on trains!
Last edited:
Yes, that's a good point, some people must be reliant on hearsya and the media.
I will always remember my mother's elderly cousin who refused to travel by train to South Wales and always used a taxi to Victoria from Wallington and then the coach. Her reasoning was that it was worth the extra expense of a cab to avoid the trains completely, and it meant that the bus and cab drivers would take care of her luggage until my father could pick her up at the bus station!
I'm not sure how up to date her knowledge of the trains were, but I was told she used to use them to london for the day, as she didn't have luggage, but refused to use them to travel further.
She may have had a point, but I wonder if she thought all of the trains were like the local slam doors at that time, and didn't realise there were more comfortable trains out of London Paddington?
transmanche
Established Member
- Joined
- 27 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 6,021
The changeover takes seconds and doesn't add to the dwell time.
If you have luggage and a buggy to deal with I wouldn't recommend Farringdon station as a place to change - the combination of large step down from train to platform and large gap between train and platform can be quite daunting.
If it's a 377 it takes a little while as the train reboots. But, I have noticed that the trains do move off quicker than I remember (going north, when the power changes at City Thameslink) and think the CIS sorts itself out when the train is already underway. I am sure at one point, the train waited until it was all done? (Maybe a software update or a change in policy?).
Seems to have changed since I did last did the route and the Cambridge - Stansted - Heathrow - Gatwick - Brighton coach no longer goes via the Galleria... The journey now involves a change.
ushawk
Established Member
Well common sense would show if you have failed a few times to board a train at the same place, to move down and try somewhere else. If you are worried about boarding a busy train with a pushchair at a busy time - then why attempt travelling on services which will clearly be busy ?
Staff should have noticed, especially as dispatch staff are required for SWT services at Clapham, no mention of staffing is made by the OP - so it is possible they may have been involved or not.
Why should you give up ? Because if you clearly are having difficulty boarding services due to a lack of space and there are no other options - then use alternative transport. SWT services in the peaks from Clapham to Waterloo run more frequently than every 10 mins as they enter from the Windsor lines and the Mainline - this could have also been an option.
Lifts do now exist to all platforms at Clapham, so the buggy wouldnt have been carried up/down stairs.
dannypye9999
Member
- Joined
- 28 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 392
People need signs these days because they have no logic. They cannot calculate that folding their trolley will not only make a little more space for fellow passengers to walk down the train without the hassle of an obstruction but also they will help themselves get on and off more quicker. That's why there are signs saying "PLEASE USE THE LUGGAGE RACKS PROVIDED" because if they didn't, people will look up and wonder what them strange shelves above the seats are for.
Fincra5
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 2,636
Quite right... all pushchairs are supposed to be folded before boarding the train. Alas, very rarely are they!
transmanche
Established Member
- Joined
- 27 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 6,021
Who says they must be folded before boarding a train? SWT's passenger charter suggests the opposite.
I want to see these rules, as well as proof that it's common sense to always fold a buggy before boarding.
I think that if the options are:
1) Baby secured in buggy, lifted up at the front, and pushed on to the train - then secured, baby out, fold up buggy. When getting off, same process in reverse, stepping out of train backwards and pulling buggy down on to the platform.
2) Take baby out of buggy, attach a tether (or just cross your fingers), hold tether somehow (in hand, or under foot which will just get pulled out as soon as s/he wanders off) while folding buggy up (keeping an eye on baby at all times, especially if the train is actually approaching and not already there with the doors open and everyone wondering what you're doing when there's a 25 second dwell time to do all this, and you're still faffing around with the buggy), lift up baby and support in your arms, then bend down to pick up the buggy, and now get on, along with any other bags you might have (from the obligatory changing bag, to stuff you might reasonably be carrying, like shopping or luggage). All the while making sure that you don't slip or drop any of these things.
If number 2 is the common sense option, then all I can say is Jesus!
And what if said baby can't walk yet? Leave it lying down on the platform then scoop it up?
Folding buggies is something that many signs say to do, especially if a wheelchair user needs a space. I do think some people have got their wires crossed if they think it should be folded for the purpose of getting on or off a train.
Again, I'd love to see what idiot has actually produced documentation to suggest that. Even before I was a parent, I'd have thought that this was insane advice. I'm quite surprised so many people actually think this is logical.
I'd love to know what the parents of these people did if they ever got taken on buses and trains when they were that age.
I think that if the options are:
1) Baby secured in buggy, lifted up at the front, and pushed on to the train - then secured, baby out, fold up buggy. When getting off, same process in reverse, stepping out of train backwards and pulling buggy down on to the platform.
2) Take baby out of buggy, attach a tether (or just cross your fingers), hold tether somehow (in hand, or under foot which will just get pulled out as soon as s/he wanders off) while folding buggy up (keeping an eye on baby at all times, especially if the train is actually approaching and not already there with the doors open and everyone wondering what you're doing when there's a 25 second dwell time to do all this, and you're still faffing around with the buggy), lift up baby and support in your arms, then bend down to pick up the buggy, and now get on, along with any other bags you might have (from the obligatory changing bag, to stuff you might reasonably be carrying, like shopping or luggage). All the while making sure that you don't slip or drop any of these things.
If number 2 is the common sense option, then all I can say is Jesus!
And what if said baby can't walk yet? Leave it lying down on the platform then scoop it up?
Folding buggies is something that many signs say to do, especially if a wheelchair user needs a space. I do think some people have got their wires crossed if they think it should be folded for the purpose of getting on or off a train.
Again, I'd love to see what idiot has actually produced documentation to suggest that. Even before I was a parent, I'd have thought that this was insane advice. I'm quite surprised so many people actually think this is logical.
I'd love to know what the parents of these people did if they ever got taken on buses and trains when they were that age.
I can't comment on SWT's stations but on FGW there are announcements that say something like "Customers with pushchairs are reminded to make sure the brake is on whilst waiting on the platform, and you are requested to fold your pushchair before boarding."
transmanche
Established Member
- Joined
- 27 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 6,021
According to FGW this is a 'polite request but not mandatory'.
Actually if you read that article you'll get a good idea of the problems that can be caused by trying to fold a buggy before boarding.
Number 2 is incredibly dangerous when you take into account the gap between the train and the platform, what if the child goes that way?
Seeing a big shiny train come in would make them curious and they would want to go and grab it but they won't know about the gap being in the way.'Common sense' as has been mentioned on here already told me it was a silly idea.
I do sympathise with FGW. Some stations, especially those where you'll get loads of buggies (like seaside resorts) must be a nightmare, but for the boarding and alighting process, it's safer IN the buggy if you're on your own. I can't imagine there's any exception to that rule, unless the child is a lot older and the buggy is just for convenience, as against a necessary means of transporting a baby/toddler.
Giving advice to fold the buggy could earn FGW a lot of negative press, or worse, if something happened because someone followed that advice.
I can't remember what TOCs have put up the posters saying how important it is to take a buggy off backwards, but I am sure I've seen it with FCC (but can't be 100% sure) so some consistency from First Group on what's a safety issue would be a good idea.
This situation with regards the question of pushchairs seems to me to be one where there's conflict between two ways of thinking. On the one hand, parents are making the point that getting an infant out of a pushchair and loading both onto the train separately is potentially unsafe, and, on the other, there are those who support the FGW request to fold the pushchair on the platform as boarding the train with the infant still in the pushchair, even if they are then lifted out and the pushchair folded, is antisocial and that the risk of a child crawling or toddling towards the train is acceptable in order to speed-up the boarding process. Speed vs. safety, in other words.
BTW, when I referred to Guards, I meant the old-fashioned Guard who checked that all passengers who were trying to board had done so safely and then dispatched the train. I'm not referring to someone who is required to check a monitor before pressing a button (I mean no disrespect to Guards whose job this is - I'm merely questioning the wisdom of the changes that have been made to the way they are required to work).
BTW, when I referred to Guards, I meant the old-fashioned Guard who checked that all passengers who were trying to board had done so safely and then dispatched the train. I'm not referring to someone who is required to check a monitor before pressing a button (I mean no disrespect to Guards whose job this is - I'm merely questioning the wisdom of the changes that have been made to the way they are required to work).
Last edited:
The other option has an unacceptable level of danger, I'm quite amazed it's even suggested. In this safety gone mad world, it's especially odd.
By all means ask for buggies to be folded ON the train though, which is common sense.
By all means ask for buggies to be folded ON the train though, which is common sense.
I presume those who say the buggy must be folded before boarding a train have never actually tried it on a station platform with a one-year old strapped in, the bottom shelf containing nappies and other requisites for the journey and so best kept horizontal, pressing two spring catches on opposite sides simultaneously to fold it, and such like. However many arms do you think that poor mothers, whose predecessors in past years managed these situations for you lot, have ?
We used to take our kids on trains and tubes since the day they were born - they both flew before they were one as well.
The normal thing on long distance trains was to fold the buggy when on the train (its no different to putting it in the car boot) and to switch to smaller ones as soon as possible.
The best area of all was on the East Coast trains in First where the seats are 1&1 across and you can put the buggy next to you without blocking anything (we always checked with staff that this was ok and East Coast staff are excellent with kids of all ages - actually most railway staff are - special thanks to the Northern Guard who showed my eldest the train cab as it made his day!)
The other thing that is very useful when travelling is the Baby Bjorn bag thing where you can have the baby attached to you - ideal for Routemasters.
The result of all this is that they are now highly accomplished little travellers (still under 10) who think nothing of going anywhere by any means and treat staff with courtesy and respect (please and thank you make a big difference!)
The normal thing on long distance trains was to fold the buggy when on the train (its no different to putting it in the car boot) and to switch to smaller ones as soon as possible.
The best area of all was on the East Coast trains in First where the seats are 1&1 across and you can put the buggy next to you without blocking anything (we always checked with staff that this was ok and East Coast staff are excellent with kids of all ages - actually most railway staff are - special thanks to the Northern Guard who showed my eldest the train cab as it made his day!)
The other thing that is very useful when travelling is the Baby Bjorn bag thing where you can have the baby attached to you - ideal for Routemasters.
The result of all this is that they are now highly accomplished little travellers (still under 10) who think nothing of going anywhere by any means and treat staff with courtesy and respect (please and thank you make a big difference!)
Qwerty133
Established Member
Not according to one EMT TM, who told me that it was safe to have bikes blocking the vestibules as 'no one ever needs to move coaches' and when asked what would happen in the case off an emergency 'they won't be one', so if train staff don't have this attitude what chance is there of passengers having it.
(sorry for the off topic post)
Last edited:
The internal doors on the 321 (whether fitted by FCC or left over from LM) actually have green emergency exit stickers on them!
Last edited:
I kept mine up with my child in it on Wednesday traveling deom Crewe to Warrington on a fairly packed train. In fact, Crewe station staff helped me board with him!
I used to fold his buggy when he was smaller though and actually found it quite easy. The only reason I don't now is because I'm 5 months pregnant, the size of a house and my son is now a heavy 2 year old toddler! He is also a non walker and is under paediatric care for his feet which makes carrying him that much harder as I cant even put him down
If they would have asked me to fold I would have done but I tend to just take pot luck when traveling. It's not my right as a parent to expect my child's pushchair to be able to travel unfolded with my child in it just to make my life easier
I used to fold his buggy when he was smaller though and actually found it quite easy. The only reason I don't now is because I'm 5 months pregnant, the size of a house and my son is now a heavy 2 year old toddler! He is also a non walker and is under paediatric care for his feet which makes carrying him that much harder as I cant even put him down
If they would have asked me to fold I would have done but I tend to just take pot luck when traveling. It's not my right as a parent to expect my child's pushchair to be able to travel unfolded with my child in it just to make my life easier
Last edited:
- Status