Not if you make sure you don't sell more tickets than seats!
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Deutsche Bahn and the Channel Tunnel?
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Not if you make sure you don't sell more tickets than seats!
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I wouldn't be so sure, there is talk of this now that the rail systems of Europe, at least the mainlines anyway, are being deregulated this year. But it's worth bearing in mind that not everybody wants to travel low-cost especially the business community. So companies like Eurostar, that trade on quality rather than cost, although they do have a low fares, will always be around for those that actually would travel this way.
90019
Established Member
Which airlines do anyway because they know not everyone will turn up, though the Americans are the worst for this in my experience.
That's true. Perhaps I should have said 'let more people through the gate than there are seats on the plane...'
That said, didn't flybe and Ryanair promise never to overbook?
jamesontheroad
Established Member
Correct, BE and FR never overbook.
I'll agree that Michael O'Leary is a business genius, but I am not sure it is in a good way. He's good at making money, but it's at OUR expense - and so I am not sure I'd like to aspire to be like him.
I've played his games for years, using Ryanair probably more times than any other airline - but no more. Now it's a principle thing. I know I'm not alone, but also know that things don't change overnight.
I've played his games for years, using Ryanair probably more times than any other airline - but no more. Now it's a principle thing. I know I'm not alone, but also know that things don't change overnight.
I'm not sure I can say it's at my expense! In fact, I'm one of those customers who loses him money, simply by agreeing to play his games. And frankly, as long as they continue to be the cheapest and most convenient, I'll carry on travelling with them, along with the 74 million other people who are taking up your now empty seats...
Don't give him the idea of trying to fit 74 million people in my seat!
You aren't really costing him money. The cheap fares are essential for the operation of the company, as people are convinced they're getting a better deal than elsewhere. They could never operate with normal fares as the service is so minimal.
You aren't really costing him money. The cheap fares are essential for the operation of the company, as people are convinced they're getting a better deal than elsewhere. They could never operate with normal fares as the service is so minimal.
Oh I know that, but the thought of his having to pay £11 to the Treasury and indiscriminate airport charges on my behalf when I've given him just 1p has given me such an endless source of pleasure and amusement over the last few years that I try not to think of the advertising revenue and yield management techniques that mean he doesn't really care. There'd be no sense of satisfaction in that!
Goldfish62
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I have flown to many interesting destinations over the past few years, which I would not have been possible were it not for Ryanair. However, I stopped flying with them a couple of years ago because of their contempt for their passengers. Eg, they were forced to stop quoting fares excluding taxes, so instead they started levying a compulsory check-in fee (Per person: £5 on line, £25 at airport), which automatically adds a minimum £10 to a return fare, but is not advertised as part of the fare. That's downright contemptuous and dishonest.
Many of my friends have also stopped flying with "Eire O'Flot" as well.
The £5 check-in fee doesn't apply to 'headline' promotional fares so if you see an advert for a cheap fare it will be available at that price. I have to agree that this is the one and only Ryanair fee I dislike, but if the alternative is to pay £50 more to go with another airline (and usually from a less convenient airport) I'm afraid any principles I have go out the window.
Your last line is funny though - the real Aерофлот is actually quite nice now. How things have changed!
The way Ryanair will cancel flights that aren't full, leaving you stranded and then attempting to say that you booked two singles - so they don't have to get you home (even giving refunds to people to end their contract with the customer) is another thing that put me off using Ryanair for any trip where I didn't have a plan B. In the case of going to Sweden, we had family we could stay with.
They're sneaky too - they'll often cancel a near empty plane by saying there was a technical fault. They're quite happy to have people being 'relieved' that they didn't board the plane as it could have been dangerous, than admit why the plane isn't running. It's also to ensure they don't lose a slot at the airport. Don't use them often enough and you'll lose them.
I'd HATE to go to somewhere else and have to deal with any of these problems. I had this with easyJet at Gatwick (essentially a franchise of easyjet in the way it's operated there) when all flights for a day were cancelled due to a computer failure. They hid from passengers then handed out a bit of paper saying you had to pay everything yourself (hotel, taxi, alternative flight) and claim it back - fine if you've got the money. Not a penny given to anyone!
I'm not lying either when I say that the man handing out the leaflets said he was leaving the company the following week as he couldn't take it anymore.
I've gone from No. 1 low-cost airline fan to 'the enemy'. Your mileage may vary (and clearly does) and I don't suggest for one second that you stop flying if it works for you - but it's quite obvious why more and more people are saying enough is enough. More and more people are getting stung every single day.
They're sneaky too - they'll often cancel a near empty plane by saying there was a technical fault. They're quite happy to have people being 'relieved' that they didn't board the plane as it could have been dangerous, than admit why the plane isn't running. It's also to ensure they don't lose a slot at the airport. Don't use them often enough and you'll lose them.
I'd HATE to go to somewhere else and have to deal with any of these problems. I had this with easyJet at Gatwick (essentially a franchise of easyjet in the way it's operated there) when all flights for a day were cancelled due to a computer failure. They hid from passengers then handed out a bit of paper saying you had to pay everything yourself (hotel, taxi, alternative flight) and claim it back - fine if you've got the money. Not a penny given to anyone!
I'm not lying either when I say that the man handing out the leaflets said he was leaving the company the following week as he couldn't take it anymore.
I've gone from No. 1 low-cost airline fan to 'the enemy'. Your mileage may vary (and clearly does) and I don't suggest for one second that you stop flying if it works for you - but it's quite obvious why more and more people are saying enough is enough. More and more people are getting stung every single day.
People will continue to use these firms until something goes wrong, and then they will see the real cost of using them. Paying a few quid more to travel on a mroe reputable airline who make more effort to look after their passengers is omething that more and more people are doing.
I've always seen Ryanair and others as a bit of a gamble, just as you might skip on insurance and accept that every now and then you'll be stung.
It's clearly a game with the company - and in more recent months, I think he's got the edge and you'll lose. I think any smart gambler knows when to stop betting!
It's clearly a game with the company - and in more recent months, I think he's got the edge and you'll lose. I think any smart gambler knows when to stop betting!
Goldfish62
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My nearest airport is Heathrow and I can get there for free, so taking into account the time and cost of travelling to Stansted or Gatwick, it's actually better for me to fly with a "quality(!)" airline from Heathrow. And I really do love T5!
AFAIK (and I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong) Ryanair hasn't done this since its very early days - when it was the (un)official company policy to make sure the plane was full before it left. I've been on enough poorly loaded flights to be very sceptical that they would do it now - and even more so with the EU compensation rules in place. I don't dispute that they cull flights that regularly don't sell, often reducing frequencies or abandoning routes altogether, but generally once they've said they'll run a flight they will. Besides, cancellations look very bad on the reliability lists they're so proud of (c.f. recent Stelios court case).
Most Ryanair airports are not slot-controlled. Even at places that are, technical non-ops count as missed slots.
Easyjet is going to the dogs: its new management team is completely clueless - and the constant bickering with Stelios doesn't help either. The problems are almost entirely staffing issues - in other words, they haven't got any. Which probably explains your 'franchse' comment - the only franchise is Easyjet Switzerland (which is barely distinguishable from the ordinary one except its code is EZS and the planes have a Swiss not British registration); if it was anything else it would have been a plane they had hired in from someone else to cover them in cases of staff unavailability. Ryanair if anything has the opposite problem - and indeed had planes and staff to spare during the recent BA strike.
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...So why are Ryanair's passenger figures shooting upwards and everyone else's going down? I don't dispute that some people are saying this but not many are acting on it, and there are plenty more to take their places if they do.
Also, the way Ryanair run cancelling a flight would leave a plane and crew out of position. Given the highly intricate timetabling they run (turning round planes in thirty minutes or less), cancelling a flight (as opposed to dropping it from the timetable) would severly mess up the rest of the day at the very least.
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