Dennis Darts

[Towers]

As the Dart had a 19 year production life, would someone comparing a chassis from the beginning and end of production see any similarities, or would it be like the difference between a G reg Mk 2 Golf and a 08 Mk 6?

The obvious difference would be the addition of the low floor aspects in the SLF era (mid 90 onwards) and the air suspension.

 

[liamf656]

As the Dart had a 19 year production life, would someone comparing a chassis from the beginning and end of production see any similarities, or would it be like the difference between a G reg Mk 2 Golf and a 08 Mk 6?

Different engine/transmission specs and most likely a higher quality product further down the production run as they tweak little bits down the line

 

[tfw756rider]

As the Dart had a 19 year production life, would someone comparing a chassis from the beginning and end of production see any similarities, or would it be like the difference between a G reg Mk 2 Golf and a 08 Mk 6?

(Previous responses acknowledged)
As I understand it, a 1998 step-entrance chassis isn't much different to a 1989 (other than slightly longer lengths being available by around 1991 I believe, and the engine changing emissions standards twice, around 1993 and 1995 I believe).

But then a 1995 SLF chassis will have a different frame structure designed for mounting a (super-)low-floor body, and if I understand correctly, the change from taper leaf suspension to air suspension, in addition to allowing the kneel function and possibly improving ride quality as a side effect, may have also been necessary for space reasons due to the differently structured frame. Also, of course, even longer lengths became available.

Then in October 2001 there was the significant engine change, from the Cummins 6BT (130hp 5.9-litre 12-valve 6-cylinder with mechanical injection; 145hp on 10.7m SLF) to the Cummins ISB3.9 (135hp 3.9-litre 16-valve 4-cylinder with common-rail injection; 150hp on 10.7m) (the SPD stayed 6-cylinder, going from a 160hp 6BT to a "generous" 185hp 24-valve ISB5.9 - they didn't follow previous logic and use the 170hp rating of the 16-valve 4-cylinder ISB3.9. Much later, due to another change of emissions standard, very late production in 2007-2008 would've used "Enviro200 Classic" engines - ISB4.5-140; 160 on any 10.7m examples. Not sure if any SPDs were built that late to receive an ISB6.7-205).

 

[PG]

The obvious difference would be the addition of the low floor aspects in the SLF era (mid 90 onwards) and the air suspension.

This set me wondering if the Dart was the only single decker to be re-engineered for the SLF era?

(The only other that comes to mind is the DAF DB250 which was a decker.)

 

[TR673]

This set me wondering if the Dart was the only single decker to be re-engineered for the SLF era?

(The only other that comes to mind is the DAF DB250 which was a decker.)

Dennis also did a Lance SLF

For the rest I think it depends if you count a "low entry" version as a variant or a whole new chassis. E.g Volvo B10B >> B10BLE, Scania L113 >> L113CRL

 

[YX73OUB]

Dennis also did a Lance SLF

For the rest I think it depends if you count a "low entry" version as a variant or a whole new chassis. E.g Volvo B10B >> B10BLE, Scania L113 >> L113CRL

Same with the Volvo B6 too

 

[Dwarfer1979]

This set me wondering if the Dart was the only single decker to be re-engineered for the SLF era?

(The only other that comes to mind is the DAF DB250 which was a decker.)

Depends on what you mean by re-engineered, there was a lot of change between a step entrance Dart & a low floor one (they were longer & wider and had a completely different suspension concept, springs replaced by air). A lot of the low-floor single-deckers were the back end of a step-entrance model, or even bottom end coach, grafted onto a low-floor front end. Not sure how much the Lance SLF matched to the Lance but a number of the Scania models (L113 in particular) were, I think, explicitly described as such whilst I think the Volvo B10BLE was similar and the description of the B7RLE when it was launched in the UK was the back end of the B7R grafted onto the front end of a B7L to provide an interurban spec low-floor (originally for Scandinavia but also better suited for UK tastes) and the Mercedes OC500LE was the same though didn't sell well in the UK in either coach or bus spec. The complication is changes in emission levels that occurred around the same time as low floor came in means that once you change engine & associated aspects to meet this and the front end for low floor how much is actually left of the previous or base step entrance version to call it the same model than a different model carrying on a shared name.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

This set me wondering if the Dart was the only single decker to be re-engineered for the SLF era?

(The only other that comes to mind is the DAF DB250 which was a decker.)

The DAF SB220 single-decker had a low-floor version as well

 

[PG]

Thanks to everyone who has jogged my memory

 

[tfw756rider]

Dennis also did a Lance SLF

Ah yes, although I don't know why it ended production half-a-decade before the TransBus Enviro300 came out (meaning the Alexander ALX300 wasn't available on Dennis chassis, only DAF/MAN/Volvo).

 

[Fokx]

Ah yes, although I don't know why it ended production half-a-decade before the TransBus Enviro300 came out (meaning the Alexander ALX300 wasn't available on Dennis chassis, only DAF/MAN/Volvo).

The Lance SLF was replaced indirectly by the SPD variant of the Dennis Dart which came with Plaxton, Alexander, Marshall Capital and East Lancs bodywork.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==

Whilst there wasn't a Dennis Lance SLF Alx300, There was a Dennis Dart SPD Alx200

 

[WirralLine]

There is, or at least was recently, an ALX200 that pops up in service around Warrington every now and then… possibly Gray Line or something like that?

It was working for Howards Travel/Omega Busways. VX51 RBY. Its still in the yard but I believe has a problem and doesn't get used.

They also have ELC Spryte bodied HOW 477H (Ex P461 DCW) and which is used as an emergency spare vehicle.

Theyre currently in the process of putting their Carlyle bodied step entrance dart back on the road (H881 LOX) but not sure if it will actually see any use as a service bus again.

 

[tfw756rider]

The Lance SLF was replaced indirectly by the SPD variant of the Dennis Dart which came with Plaxton, Alexander, Marshall Capital and East Lancs bodywork.

Whilst there wasn't a Dennis Lance SLF Alx300, There was a Dennis Dart SPD Alx200

Reply acknowledged.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==

It was working for Howards Travel/Omega Busways. VX51 RBY. Its still in the yard but I believe has a problem and doesn't get used.

An odd case of a later-than-September 2001-registered (November 2001-registered) 6BT5.9-engined Dart. Will have been intended to have been registered no later than September 2001, as the ISB3.9 engine was supposed to be fitted from October 2001 (and I'm guessing never was in the case of ALX200-bodied Darts), but for whatever reason was late-registered by a couple of months or more.

Theyre currently in the process of putting their Carlyle bodied step entrance dart back on the road (H881 LOX) but not sure if it will actually see any use as a service bus again.

Nice, an "original" Dart. Registered in December 1990, but (for who knows what reason) with an incorrect engine size of 2000cc (2-litre) rather than 5900cc/5883cc (5.9-litre). That's assuming it hasn't been downgraded to a 2-litre engine, but doing such a thing is unheard of and wouldn't make a lot of sense / wouldn't work very well. If it was to see any use as a service bus again, it would of course only be allowed on public timetabled services a maximum of 20 days per year, or on school services all year round I believe.

 

[WirralLine]

Reply acknowledged.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==


An odd case of a later-than-September 2001-registered (November 2001-registered) 6BT5.9-engined Dart. Will have been intended to have been registered no later than September 2001, as the ISB3.9 engine was supposed to be fitted from October 2001 (and I'm guessing never was in the case of ALX200-bodied Darts), but for whatever reason was late-registered by a couple of months or more.


Nice, an "original" Dart. Registered in December 1990, but (for who knows what reason) with an incorrect engine size of 2000cc (2-litre) rather than 5900cc/5883cc (5.9-litre). That's assuming it hasn't been downgraded to a 2-litre engine, but doing such a thing is unheard of and wouldn't make a lot of sense / wouldn't work very well. If it was to see any use as a service bus again, it would of course only be allowed on public timetabled services a maximum of 20 days per year, or on school services all year round I believe.

When it comes to registration details and buses i wouldnt pay much attention to it. My Dennis Dart registered with an engine size of 0cc on the logbook which I had to get changed to apply for a cheaper (non PSV) tax class because they require the engine size to determine the rate.

Also when it comes to registration a lot of them have the body down as make/model eg Northern Counties Palatine rather than Volvo Olympian, I get the impression a lot of it was done on a "dont really care" basis!

Im pretty sure when it comes to registration dates theres an odd case of a Dart SLF with the original Plaxton Pointer SLF bodywork which is registered on an (i think) 56 plate? Cant remember details but it was a demo test bed or something and wasnt registered for the road until 2006/2007.

 

[tfw756rider]

When it comes to registration details and buses i wouldnt pay much attention to it. My Dennis Dart registered with an engine size of 0cc on the logbook which I had to get changed to apply for a cheaper (non PSV) tax class because they require the engine size to determine the rate.

I usually see the actual engine size like 5900cc/5883cc (well, at least "actual" until the Dart switched to the ISB3.9 in October 2001 but earlier such examples were still down as 5883cc as if they forgot to change it, similar to when Optare's 6-cylinder Cummins engine option changed to 6700cc in 2007 but they kept being registered as 5900cc for a bit), but I do see the odd 0cc. This is the first time though I've seen complete nonsense like 2000cc for a Dart.

What Dart do you own?

Also when it comes to registration a lot of them have the body down as make/model eg Northern Counties Palatine rather than Volvo Olympian, I get the impression a lot of it was done on a "dont really care" basis!

Interesting - pretty much all the "different chassis and body manufacturers" buses I've put in the DVLA checker have come back as the chassis manufacturer as the make. I did though once see an oddball coach that had one of those "manually entered" makes, and it was e.g. PLAXTON PROFILE rather than e.g. Volvo or Dennis. As for the model field, I've only looked at that (obviously on some other service) for integral buses, specifcally Enviro200s - they were blank, so were registered merely as an ALEXANDER DENNIS (or even ALEXANDERDENNIS without the space) "no model".

Im pretty sure when it comes to registration dates theres an odd case of a Dart SLF with the original Plaxton Pointer SLF bodywork which is registered on an (i think) 56 plate? Cant remember details but it was a demo test bed or something and wasnt registered for the road until 2006/2007.

Yes 56 reg (MC56 HAM). Specifically a Pointer 1-bodied SPD, and mentioned as early as page 1 (and 2). November 2006-registered (with "Alexander Dennis" as the make!) although actually currently on SORN. One of just two built. The other one (non-late-registered, "Dennis" September 1998 S-reg S861 VAT) "disappeared" according to @stadler, but is actually showing up on the DVLA checker, albeit also on SORN.

 

[darylyates17]

I know its already in this thread but in terms of the only the big 5 how many proper Darts (not E200s) are left as a lot smaller companies will have at least 1 example?

 

[YX73OUB]

AOT coaches in Nottingham still have GX06 DXD, too.

 

[nonabrow]

I don't think anyone's mentioned Stringers of Castleford yet.

They have two Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer 2's, MH05 HGG and MB04 DYF. They were last used in late September and early October respectively, as the company tends to use a pair of Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Mellor Stratas more often.

 

[stadler]

Some others that i have just remember that nobody has mentioned yet.

Autocar around the Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells areas have two darts left:

• MEZ 445 (GX05 AVV) - Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer MK2 MPD

• MEZ 3972 (MX56 HYB / XX56 PSW) - Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer MK2 MPD

Arriva Kent around the Dartford and Gravesend area have four darts left:

• GN04 UDG (1613) - Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer MK2 MPD

• GN06 EEB (1633) - Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer MK2 MPD

• GN06 EEF (1634) - Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer MK2 MPD

• RX07 KPJ (1563) - Dennis Dart SLF Caetano Nimbus

Both operators are nearby in Kent so it is a good easy place to find some still in passenger service.

 

[tfw756rider]

RX07 KPJ (1563) - Dennis Dart SLF Caetano Nimbus

07 reg!