Dennis Darts

[38291018]

Black cat travel of Lincoln have a few
(J111 BCT) Dennis Dart MPD Plaxton Pointer 2
(P111 BCT) Dennis Dart MPD Plaxton Pointer 2
(M111 BCT) Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer 2
(W111 BCT) Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer 2
(Y111 BCT) Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer 2
(V111 BCT) Dennis Dart SLF Caetano Nimbus

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

I'm not understanding the resentment and hostility towards the Dart. They're one of the most successful designs ever and, let's face it, they were much more reliable than the Optare Vecta, Optare Excel, Volvo B6, Volvo B6LE, MAN 14.240.

Or is it that in the hierachy of buses (that bus enthusiasts like) then it can't be good as it "not a heavyweight" or "has tiny wheels" - despite proving to be remarkably resilient?

Totally agree. I once read in a magazine the opinion that "in retrospect the Dart will come to be seen as the all-time classic British bus".
I see where the author was coming from. After deregulation and privatisation many operators were cash strapped and fell catastrophically behind with fleet replacement. The cheap price of the Dart meant they could buy more new buses, and the rugged reliability and cheap maintenance costs did many a balance sheet the power of good.
Similarly when low floor buses appeared the cheaper price of a Dart SLF allowed more to be purchased and full routes or networks to be converted.
I had some decent runs in them; Quickstep Travel in Leeds and Isle of Man Transport achieved speeds usually seen only by air traffic control, and Arriva Yorkshire's MPDs were great fun to travel on.
Not the sexiest bus ever built, but a good workhorse and thoroughly deserving of its place in any museum or heritage collection.

Centrebus have 555 (SN55 DVC) based at Grantham depot but its not been out for a fair few months as it's undergoing some work.

I didn't know if this was still about. I photographed it last year, and I'm chuffed that it might see service again!

 

[Russel]

I'm quite glad that there are few left!

When the Dennis Drat was introduced on my local service, I absolutely hated them.

I completely understand that there's a desire to preserve certain types and I'll grudgingly accept the need to preserve a few for posterity but I will not mourn the loss of these vehicles from our roads. Horrible things!

Fully in agreement!

I think part of my dislike comes from how they seem to be the bus of choice for the cowboy independents, along with the Solo.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Totally agree. I once read in a magazine the opinion that "in retrospect the Dart will come to be seen as the all-time classic British bus".
I see where the author was coming from. After deregulation and privatisation many operators were cash strapped and fell catastrophically behind with fleet replacement. The cheap price of the Dart meant they could buy more new buses, and the rugged reliability and cheap maintenance costs did many a balance sheet the power of good.
Similarly when low floor buses appeared the cheaper price of a Dart SLF allowed more to be purchased and full routes or networks to be converted.
I had some decent runs in them; Quickstep Travel in Leeds and Isle of Man Transport achieved speeds usually seen only by air traffic control, and Arriva Yorkshire's MPDs were great fun to travel on.
Not the sexiest bus ever built, but a good workhorse and thoroughly deserving of its place in any museum or heritage collection.

I'm of a similar opinion. As a passenger, I much preferred a Dart than the Enviro 200s that Stagecoach have replaced them with in my area. From a driver's perspective, I do some casual work on rail replacement with two operators - one has an all-Enviro fleet and the other has Darts. I much prefer driving the latter's vehicles (and that's not down to the former's being shoddy or anything like that!).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think part of my dislike comes from how they seem to be the bus of choice for the cowboy independents, along with the Solo.

That's a slightly strange approach. Working on the same basis, should we also bracket other types similarly? How many post de-reg cowboy operators had Atlanteans and Fleetlines?

It's that Darts and Solos were plentiful (because they were a good purchase unlike Vectas, B6's and Excels) that cowboy independents (and non cowboy independents) liked them.

 

[Russel]

That's a slightly strange approach. Working on the same basis, should we also bracket other types similarly? How many post de-reg cowboy operators had Atlanteans and Fleetlines?

It's that Darts and Solos were plentiful (because they were a good purchase unlike Vectas, B6's and Excels) that cowboy independents (and non cowboy independents) liked them.

Atlanteans and Fleetlines, I have no opinion on, never used them, not really into older stuff.

Regarding Darts, I grew up in Birmingham in the early 2000s where it seemed every bus that wasn't a Travel West Midlands bus was a variation of the Dart operated by one of the many dodgy fly-by-night outfits that were around at the time, I guess I just associate the Dart with that era.

 

[IanMac]

34171 is tracking with Stageoach SW at Barnstaple today.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Atlanteans and Fleetlines, I have no opinion on, never used them, not really into older stuff.

Regarding Darts, I grew up in Birmingham in the early 2000s where it seemed every bus that wasn't a Travel West Midlands bus was a variation of the Dart operated by one of the many dodgy fly-by-night outfits that were around at the time, I guess I just associate the Dart with that era.

TBF, that's just a reflection on the operators not on the vehicles. Perhaps the question is why such operators weren't operating B6s or Vectas at that time....? Because they weren't as reliable

 

[Russel]

TBF, that's just a reflection on the operators not on the vehicles.

Yeah, I know, but to me, it's what I associate the Dart with.

 

[nick291]

I'm quite glad that there are few left!

When the Dennis Drat was introduced on my local service, I absolutely hated them.

I completely understand that there's a desire to preserve certain types and I'll grudgingly accept the need to preserve a few for posterity but I will not mourn the loss of these vehicles from our roads. Horrible things!

I'm the polar opposite to you then Gus. I grew up with First West of England's R-BAE/S-AFB/T-REU/V-FAE Darts and absolutely loved travelling on them!

 

[duncombec]

It is the same thing. An SPD is a type of SLF dart. An SPD is simply the longest length 11.3m version of the SLF dart. Similarly the MPD is simply the shortest 8.8m version of the SLF dart. But an SPD is still an SLF dart.

Indeed, I'm well aware of this, which is why I jokingly said it was pedant mode!

However, I believe I'm correct in saying it was the only SPD (or 11.3m SLF, if you insist) that had a Pointer 1 body, as the others all had Pointer 2s. It was also the unregistered prototype, built significantly earlier than its registration would suggest, and is thus the second Dart oddity in the fleet along with the Neobus-bodied example.

 

[stadler]

Indeed, I'm well aware of this, which is why I jokingly said it was pedant mode!

However, I believe I'm correct in saying it was the only SPD (or 11.3m SLF, if you insist) that had a Pointer 1 body, as the others all had Pointer 2s. It was also the unregistered prototype, built significantly earlier than its registration would suggest, and is thus the second Dart oddity in the fleet along with the Neobus-bodied example.

There was actually two MK1 SPD darts built. S861 VAT was the other. But certainly a very rare type with only two built. S861 VAT has dissappeared (possibly scrapped but difficult to know for certain) so the Hams Travel example may well be the only one of the two left.

 

[Grahamk748]

I believe I've seen a Dart still in use by Grant Palmer down here in Bedfordshire.

CA05GHA was their last one but has been scrapped now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2025 ==

Lawsons,Corby still have ex Metroline MPD dart Y151NLK I believe

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2025 ==

Let’s Go,Wolverhampton still have their East Lancs Esteem Dart PN07KRZ and LMS,Worcester still have KP51SXY MPD Dart I believe

 

[Simon75]

Arriva in Crewe had the last ever new buses in 2001 some Y reg darts on the 6 Shavington to Leigton Hospital, will electric roller blinds and air conditioning (had notices saying mobile phone had to be turned off) Can't remember how long they were in Crewe or what happened to them

 

[GusB]

I'm the polar opposite to you then Gus. I grew up with First West of England's R-BAE/S-AFB/T-REU/V-FAE Darts and absolutely loved travelling on them!

At the end of the day, it just comes down to personal preference. The first Darts I sampled were from the J-FPS batch that were part of the large order placed by Stagecoach in the early 90s. To me they just felt a bit agricultural (this is probably why they were so successful; it was a fairly simple chassis).

At the same time I was beginning to see older, more familiar types disappear and the Dart simply didn't inspire me.

Lothian's Darts didn't offend me so much; I believe that they had Voith transmissions instead of the usual Allison units. Some of the later Darts (I'm thinking of the SV55-registered examples that Stagecoach had) seemed to be a bit more refined than their predecessors and they were rather more pleasant to travel on.

I suppose that my views are rather akin to those of someone who grew up with steam locomotives and didn't quite accept the new norm when diesels came along. I'm probably more like my dad than I'd care to admit!

 

[tfw756rider]

LMS,Worcester still have KP51SXY MPD Dart I believe

(video by Joe Mercedes (Main Channel), 4/4/24)

Rare ISB3.9+AT545 combo! They were made like that briefly in late 2001 (after the Cummins 6BT engine stopped being used but before the Allison 2000 series gearbox started to be used), so it has the newer "E200-ish" engine sound but with the classic Allison gearbox noises

 

[Hyebone]

South Pennine Community Transport have a Mini Pointer Dart, LX06 EZU

 

[Julia]

First ones I came across were Bracknell's very early pair of SLFs... as they were kicking off the replacement of ex-London breadvans, particularly the awful step-entrance Renault S56s, they seemed a big step forward at the time. We can look back now and dismiss them as only a big step forward because we were emerging from a highly regressed era, but still...!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First ones I came across were Bracknell's very early pair of SLFs... as they were kicking off the replacement of ex-London breadvans, particularly the awful step-entrance Renault S56s, they seemed a big step forward at the time. We can look back now and dismiss them as only a big step forward because we were emerging from a highly regressed era, but still...!

Erm… I was brought up on Bristol LHs and Leyland Nationals, and the standard Pointer Dart was a mile ahead of those.

 

[joieman]

Centrebus have 555 (SN55 DVC) based at Grantham depot but its not been out for a fair few months as it's undergoing some work.

More like nearly two years

 

[fgwrich]

Hear hear. They've served us well for 30 years, and the basic design continues to do so in the form of E200s and MMCs.

I’ve always been a fan of the Plaxton design. Sure the Pointer 2 is a bit boxy, but they’re a smart, rather neat design. The ALX examples we had around here were absolute rattle boxes and I never liked those, in part hammered from their time in London and Oxford.

The best examples we had were the ex Pompey X-VAP Cummins engined, Voith gearbox (and retarder fitted) SPDs similar to those operated by Lothian. Lovely deep engined machines you could hear coming, reliable, big people hovering machines. Shame there isn’t many of those left, though I understand the chassis had started to bend in some examples after a few years - similar to the early E300s.

 

[Towers]

More like nearly two years

Surely then it must be dead?! I can’t imagine any moderately sizeable operator these says spending two years resurrecting a 20 year old Dart?!

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Hams Travel in the Kent and East Sussex border area still have six of them in service:

MC06 HAM - Dennis Dart SLF Novosadska Neobus

That seems to be a unique version.

MC06 HAM

Hams Travel MC06 HAM at Tunbridge Wells station. Tuesday 30th October 2018. DSCN47792A. A 2002 built Dennis Dart SLF-Neobus Novasadska body. Was intended to be used by TransBus as a demonstrator for Malta but this never materialized, not being registered until 2006..

www.flickr.com

Hams Travel MC06 HAM at Tunbridge Wells station. Tuesday 30th October 2018. DSCN47792A.

A 2002 built Dennis Dart SLF-Neobus Novasadska body. Was intended to be used by TransBus as a demonstrator for Malta but this never materialized, not being registered until 2006..

 

[RJ]

(video by Joe Mercedes (Main Channel), 4/4/24)

Rare ISB3.9+AT545 combo! They were made like that briefly in late 2001 (after the Cummins 6BT engine stopped being used but before the Allison 2000 series gearbox started to be used), so it has the newer "E200-ish" engine sound but with the classic Allison gearbox noises

That combo has something of a following! I've been trying to add one to my fleet for a long time but they seem to have died a death. Runners only seem to exist in penny numbers now.

 

[Bikeman78]

This might be covered elsewhere, but does anyone know of any companies still using Dennis Darts in normal service? I know Stagecoach has 2 remaining examples, AFAIK First, Arriva & Go-Ahead have none.

I was in Kingswear August last year after sailing on the Waverley. I was rather suprised to see a Dennis Dart there around 1800. I think it was going to Brixham, operated by Stagecoach. I would have preferred it to the contraption I had to endure to Paignton.

 

[Mikw]

Dennis Darts are cool

 

[route101]

I believe the "Red group" companies in Aylesbury still have a few also, hopefully some local enthusiasts can confirm?

Seen one at Aylesbury Bus Station last Saturday. Not the best photo.

 

[tfw756rider]

White LED front destination display on a Dart! And amber LED side one (if it were mine, it would have a green flipdot rear route display as well )

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Have any used Darts been exported for further use?

 

[stadler]

Does anyone know if any of the examples not mentioned so far such as Alexander ALX200 or Caetano Compass or Marshall Capital or Wright Crusader etc still exist in passenger service anywhere? It has been a long time since i have seen any. Probably at least five years if not more. But perhaps a few are hanging on somewhere?

I believe that there was at least 11 types of Dennis Dart SLF buses built:

Dennis Dart SLF Alexander ALX200
Dennis Dart SLF Caetano Compass
Dennis Dart SLF Caetano Nimbus
Dennis Dart SLF East Lancs Myllennium
Dennis Dart SLF East Lancs Spryte
Dennis Dart SLF Marshall Capital
Dennis Dart SLF MCV Evolution
Dennis Dart SLF Novosadska Neobus
Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer MK1
Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer MK2
Dennis Dart SLF Wright Crusader

At least 7 of these types still have at least one example in service somewhere.