Deceptive highest-band Advance ticket pricing

[Haywain]

And I assume that most people on long-distance journeys are on business travel, right?

Wrong.

 

[miami]

And I assume that most people on long-distance journeys are on business travel, right?

No, even before covid.

Visiting friends + relatives - 54%

Days Out - 32%

Holiday - 25%

Business was only 24%, with daily commuting 4% and less-than-daily commuting 11%.

(Percentages don't add up as presumably you can combine visiting relatives with holiday for example)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/788424/public-attitudes-towards-train-services-feb-2018.pdf

 

[AlterEgo]

I think this thread is very typical of the self-selected audience on the forum. I agree with the posters who suggest most passengers are wayyyyyy more price sensitive than most people here give them credit for; the data from TOC ticket sales back this assertion up, with flexible tickets being purchased most often when there is no other option available.

 

[wellhouse]

Whilst many people are happy to accept the restrictions of Advance ticket, they need to do so in full knowledge of what they're doing.

With the complexity of the ticketing regime, full knowledge is unlikely outside the most fastidious members of this Forum.

Advance restrictions are not the only ones to reduce flexibility; Route, Time and Operator restrictions also reduce flexibility, and it is challenging for most passengers to fully appreciate the degree of flexibility they sacrifice (or gain) when assessing the relative values of the range of fares available.

 

[Wallsendmag]

With the complexity of the ticketing regime, full knowledge is unlikely outside the most fastidious members of this Forum.

Advance restrictions are not the only ones to reduce flexibility; Route, Time and Operator restrictions also reduce flexibility, and it is challenging for most passengers to fully appreciate the degree of flexibility they sacrifice (or gain) when assessing the relative values of the range of fares available.

But what you're being told is when given all the options by a real person who understands the differences in the fares the customer will usually choose the cheapest.

 

[kingston]

Just to be clear on my original point - I don't have any issues with 50p-cheaper Advance tickets over the cheapest flexible ticket **as long as** it's very clear to a layperson that they're giving up (significant) flexibility/features for 50p // they can get (significant) extra flexibility/features for 50p extra.

Equally it wouldn't have an issue if it didn't appear this pricing was being done deliberately, i.e. non-trivial savings were being offered of at least 10-20% on the cheapest flexible ticket, and passengers weren't being deliberately caught out and paying for new tickets more frequently.

It's the combination of these two which I think reflects quite badly on the relevant TOC/retailer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One benefit of this sort of Advance pricing is that it does mean a single journey can be done affordably. Walk-up fares on most TOCs are overpriced for a single.

So it might save you £1 on a return journey, but other than LNER who do have half-priced singles it could easily save you £50 on a long single journey.

 

[Ianno87]

One benefit of this sort of Advance pricing is that it does mean a single journey can be done affordably. Walk-up fares on most TOCs are overpriced for a single.

So it might save you £1 on a return journey, but other than LNER who do have half-priced singles it could easily save you £50 on a long single journey.

Example: Was looking at Cambridge-Birmingham via XC the other day.

Something like £66 Off-Peak return, against which the £33 Advance Singles look poor for a return journey...but not so bad against the £65 off-peak single! (Ignore for a moment that splitting will reduce this considerably).


The other consideration is that you may sometimes find the same £33 Advance on a peak train; so you effectively can pay the same price as an Off-Peak, but with one direction when a "flexible" Off-Peak may not be valid (e.g. on the 0900 Cambridge-Birmingham). So the pair of Advances, in effect, give more time flexibility for the same price.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are also other edge cases where Advances are more flexible than a walk up return. One is if you're needing to change the return half of a return journey where you've already taken the outward to a time more than a month after the outward. For a walk-up that would require a new single to be purchased and the return half just binned. For an Advance, just change it for a tenner (or nothing at the moment).

They're not common cases but they certainly exist.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Just to be clear on my original point - I don't have any issues with 50p-cheaper Advance tickets over the cheapest flexible ticket **as long as** it's very clear to a layperson that they're giving up (significant) flexibility/features for 50p // they can get (significant) extra flexibility/features for 50p extra.

It would be interesting, and perhaps more honest, if this were presented in the same way as airline/hotel/whatever bookings often are:

Your journey price: £32.50
Add cancellation protection and return flexibility for an extra 50p? ☑️

I'm pretty sure we'd see a lot of people ticking that box if it were phrased like that.

 

[Ianno87]

It would be interesting, and perhaps more honest, if this were presented in the same way as airline/hotel/whatever bookings often are:

Your journey price: £32.50
Add cancellation protection and return flexibility for an extra 50p? ☑️

I'm pretty sure we'd see a lot of people ticking that box if it were phrased like that.

But isn't that technically being sold as a separate "insurance" product?

 

[Journeyman]

But isn't that technically being sold as a separate "insurance" product?

Yeah, that's misleading in itself.

 

[Wallsendmag]

But isn't that technically being sold as a separate "insurance" product?

It's certainly not insurance as that strays into another regulated industry

 

[infobleep]

I'm travelling from Guildford to Winchestee soon and you can get advanced tickets. The cheapest are under £10 but some cost just over £11 and others just over £15. However a discounted off peak return costs £16.30, making some of the advances only worth the paper they are printed on if you are travelling one way. There are no advance returns.

Even if I was travelling overnight, a return is only £23.30 with the third off.

The £11 advance would be a little cheaper but not the £15 one.