Could you extend any services to increase connectivity?

[JonathanH]

Or could you extend a Snow Hill lines service from Worcester to Gloucester?

I think that was tried before with very little custom resulting.

 

[YorksLad12]

"Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has named the reinstatement of the currently freight-only Clitheroe to Hellifield line to full service as one of ten routes to move forward from his department’s Ideas Fund". [Lancashire Telegraph, 27th May 2020]. It's not possible to turn back at Hellifield with the current track/signalling so train would have to run forward to Settle Junction to reverse. Not a freight-only line of course as it's used by steam and other specials and a summer Sunday Dalesrail train, but line speed is low. This plan probably would not include a new station at Gisburn or Chatburn, either of which would be useful but is there a business case for it in such a sparsely populated area?

It it were me, I'd reinstate the south-facing bay, with appropriate signalling changes. But then it stops being a quick, cheap win...

 

[py_megapixel]

Or could you extend a Snow Hill lines service from Worcester to Gloucester?

I think that was tried before with very little custom resulting.

Indeed, London Midland ran a Worcester-Gloucester service for a while but it made a significant loss and so was withdrawn.
This is my thinking behind extending GWR instead - possibly the direct London connections would give it an edge.

Connections at Aschurch have always been massively focussed on getting people either towards Cheltenham or to Worcester. Maybe the demand is actually in the Birmingham direction, and therefore a service to Birmingham would be more useful?

 

[WAO]

I would like to see the District (and even the Circle) terminators at Edgware Road extended to Baker Street. Yes I know there's no reversing road at the moment and I could use the H&C but it would be nearly as useful to us GWR types as Crossrail.
WAO

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I made a thread similar to this not too long ago:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/theoretically-useful-extensions-to-regional-train-services.211253/

 

[yorksrob]

I notice that there are some cross country services that terminate at Bristol. Would it be worth extending these to Bath for the tourist trade ?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).

I quite like that idea!

I would extend some Manchester Vic terminating services to Rochdale to free up capacity at Man Vic although Rochdale may need some more platforms for this (it does have the space thou)

I was recently thinking about (once TRU between Huddersfield & Leeds is completed) extending some Hudd terminating services at Brockholes (put the second platform back in if needed) that way those living near Honley, Berry Brow, Lockwood could have a direct fast service to Leeds. I think that would be transformative for them and encourage more to travel by train! Its only about 6 km of electrification that would be needed to Brockholes too!

 

[HST43257]

I quite like that idea!

I would extend some Manchester Vic terminating services to Rochdale to free up capacity at Man Vic although Rochdale may need some more platforms for this (it does have the space thou)

I was recently thinking about (once TRU between Huddersfield & Leeds is completed) extending some Hudd terminating services at Brockholes (put the second platform back in if needed) that way those living near Honley, Berry Brow, Lockwood could have a direct fast service to Leeds. I think that would be transformative for them and encourage more to travel by train! Its only about 6 km of electrification that would be needed to Brockholes too!

I know it’s deviating from the initial threat purpose in a way, but I’d like to see that sort of thing going down to Clayton West if it’s going to Brockholes.

 

[zwk500]

I notice that there are some cross country services that terminate at Bristol. Would it be worth extending these to Bath for the tourist trade ?

Terminating at Bath would be your first issue - XC need time to clear the train and prep for the next service. Also by the time you've reversed at Bristol, ran to bath and turned round, then reversed at bristol to head north you'll have missed the original departure slot. If you really wanted XC to serve Bath the better way to do it would be to turn left after Gloucester, reverse at Swindon and call at Bath on the way into Bristol. But that'd still take long enough that you wouldn't be able to get the unit back into the northbound path at Gloucester.

 

[Glenn1969]

Or alternatively serve a bigger tourist market and send them to Weston super Mare to terminate rather than Bath?

 

[yorksrob]

Terminating at Bath would be your first issue - XC need time to clear the train and prep for the next service. Also by the time you've reversed at Bristol, ran to bath and turned round, then reversed at bristol to head north you'll have missed the original departure slot. If you really wanted XC to serve Bath the better way to do it would be to turn left after Gloucester, reverse at Swindon and call at Bath on the way into Bristol. But that'd still take long enough that you wouldn't be able to get the unit back into the northbound path at Gloucester.

Yes, Bath Spa is a bit limited in capacity. Pity we haven't got Green Park any more really.

 

[daodao]

I notice that there are some cross country services that terminate at Bristol. Would it be worth extending these to Bath for the tourist trade ?

Pity we haven't got Green Park any more really.

Daft and operationally challenging. A TV programme on Tuesday evening showed how the duplicate station at Green Park has now been put to much better use.

 

[BayPaul]

I notice that there are some cross country services that terminate at Bristol. Would it be worth extending these to Bath for the tourist trade ?

If XC had a few more (make that a lot more!) trains, then could they take over the Bristol - Weymouth route, so giving not only Bath but also places like Yeovil a direct service to Birmingham. Not perhaps a lot of custom for the full length of the route, but since both trains are running anyway, connecting them could make sense.

 

[zwk500]

If XC had a few more (make that a lot more!) trains, then could they take over the Bristol - Weymouth route, so giving not only Bath but also places like Yeovil a direct service to Birmingham. Not perhaps a lot of custom for the full length of the route, but since both trains are running anyway, connecting them could make sense.

No, it really couldn't. Bristol-Weymouth is a secondary branch line, XC is 100mph+ intercity connections.

 

[yorksrob]

If XC had a few more (make that a lot more!) trains, then could they take over the Bristol - Weymouth route, so giving not only Bath but also places like Yeovil a direct service to Birmingham. Not perhaps a lot of custom for the full length of the route, but since both trains are running anyway, connecting them could make sense.

I could imagine a nice holiday trade from Birmingham to Weymouth.

The main issue I could see with that is that Great Western's fares policies seem a lot more suited to the local traffic on the route than XC's.

 

[daodao]

If XC had a few more (make that a lot more!) trains, then could they take over the Bristol - Weymouth route, so giving not only Bath but also places like Yeovil a direct service to Birmingham. Not perhaps a lot of custom for the full length of the route, but since both trains are running anyway, connecting them could make sense.

The ex-MR main line to Bristol and the secondary route from Bristol to Weymouth with its wayside halts are very different lines, with different train requirements. Different types of train are needed, so the services cannot practically be linked.

I see that zwk500 has beaten me to it and made the same point more succinctly.

 

[The Planner]

I could imagine a nice holiday trade from Birmingham to Weymouth.

The main issue I could see with that is that Great Western's fares policies seem a lot more suited to the local traffic on the route than XC's.

Probably no trade at all, considering the West Mids accents you tend to hear in Barmouth etc... The amount you would spend on getting to Weymouth would put you most of the way to a Jet2 holiday in the sun.

 

[Metrolink]

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I would like to see a service from Formby to Manchester twice per day ( two in the evening/late afternoon from Formby and two in the morning from Victoria, in the summer, in each direction, possibly as an extension of Southport services. This takes traffic of the roads for people driving to Formby, avoiding changing at Southport.

 

[daodao]

I would like to see a service from Formby to Manchester twice per day ( two in the evening/late afternoon from Formby and two in the morning from Victoria, in the summer, in each direction, possibly as an extension of Southport services. This takes traffic of the roads for people driving to Formby, avoiding changing at Southport.

Thoroughly impractical, because the only possible link is via platform 3 at Southport station, and it would be hugely disruptive to the regular service pattern on these lines. Historically, some of the morning/evening fast commuter trains from M/c to Southport were extended to/from Birkdale, but this may have been to retain custom that could have been attracted to the alternative CLC route via Gateacre.

 

[Ianno87]

Or alternatively serve a bigger tourist market and send them to Weston super Mare to terminate rather than Bath?

Bath is considerably the bigger of the two for tourism.

Nonetheless, others have covered the operational difficulties with serving Bath.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I know it’s deviating from the initial threat purpose in a way, but I’d like to see that sort of thing going down to Clayton West if it’s going to Brockholes.

I like the idea as it would be very for visiting relatives I have there although I don't think the Light Railway would like it that much!

As an alternative I would extend the Light Railway to Shepley so it could connect with national rail services.

 

[HST43257]

I like the idea as it would be very for visiting relatives I have there although I don't think the Light Railway would like it that much!

As an alternative I would extend the Light Railway to Shepley so it could connect with national rail services.

Either would work. I think there’s quite a busy Clayton/Skelmanthorpe to Huddersfield passenger flow.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I think that was tried before with very little custom resulting.

At least part of the problem was that the LM services ran very close to the GW ones, so a nominally hourly service was in practice more like 1tp2h.

The solution to increasing services through Ashchurch is surely to bring the GWR Bristol-Worcester service up to a regular 1tph, rather than having half of them terminate at Cheltenham.

 

[thatapanydude]

A few ideas I have using ECS services to increase connectivity:

1) Extending the London to Lincoln LNER service to "Gainsborough Lea Road" on the morning and evening service which is an ECS to Doncaster.
2) Extending the early morning and evening Stevenage to Moorgate/KGX service (via Hertford North) to Letchworth. This is an easy, very low cost ECS service to extend with it being DOO. In particular provides strong connectivity especially for late night services from Alexandra Palace after events.

Not an ECS Service but...

3) I would also wire up P'boro to Stamford to extend the Thameslink and GN fast too - possibly hourly.

 

[A0]

A few ideas I have using ECS services to increase connectivity:

1) Extending the London to Lincoln LNER service to "Gainsborough Lea Road" on the morning and evening service which is an ECS to Doncaster.
2) Extending the early morning and evening Stevenage to Moorgate/KGX service (via Hertford North) to Letchworth. This is an easy, very low cost ECS service to extend with it being DOO. In particular provides strong connectivity especially for late night services from Alexandra Palace after events.

Not an ECS Service but...

3) I would also wire up P'boro to Stamford to extend the Thameslink and GN fast too - possibly hourly.

The Alexandra Palace to Stevenage one is daft - for two reasons, firstly there aren't *that* many late night events at Ally Pally, secondly because via Hertford is the long way round. Far quicker to double back at Finsbury Park particularly as the W3 bus runs directly to FP from Alexandra Palace.

Extending TL to Stamford is a daft idea. There's no turnaround facilities there, Stamford is a small town of 20,000 - with little demand for regular travel to London. Arguably Spalding with a population of 35,000 would make more sense and add a parkway station near the A15 on the north side of Peterboro as a parkway station which could also serve the Deepings

 

[thatapanydude]

The Alexandra Palace to Stevenage one is daft - for two reasons, firstly there aren't *that* many late night events at Ally Pally, secondly because via Hertford is the long way round. Far quicker to double back at Finsbury Park particularly as the W3 bus runs directly to FP from Alexandra Palace.

While I am not arguing about the timings - it would be more comfortable on a single train from Ally Pally to Letchworth that a bus and train. Also it does provide extra network capacity (when there are events) on a train which is already going to Letchworth Depot as an ECS movement after Stevenage.

Notwithstanding this does bring some extra morning and evening connections to Moorgate and the Hertford Loop from Hitchin and Letchworth on a single train - which in some cases is quicker end to end journey time to Moorgate due to the timings of the change at Finsbury Park. I do think that the ECS is a bit of a waste and that Hitchin and Letchworth should be called as a passenger stops rather than starting and ending the early morning/late evening services at Stevenage.

Extending TL to Stamford is a daft idea. There's no turnaround facilities there, Stamford is a small town of 20,000 - with little demand for regular travel to London. Arguably Spalding with a population of 35,000 would make more sense and add a parkway station near the A15 on the north side of Peterboro as a parkway station which could also serve the Deepings

Extending to Spalding, I agree would be a strong idea along with a Deepings station. What I would say with Stamford though because its a short distance to wire up it might be an easier sell along with it being a railhead for Oakham and certainly villages west the A1. Though I do think that an extention to Spalding would be attractive and a real economic driver for the area in particular Boston and Holbeach.

 

[A0]

Notwithstanding this does bring some extra morning and evening connections to Moorgate and the Hertford Loop from Hitchin and Letchworth on a single train - which in some cases is quicker end to end journey time to Moorgate due to the timings of the change at Finsbury Park.

Given the fast FP - Hitchin service takes 26 mins whereas a service originating from Moorgate has barely got to Cuffley in that time, let alone Hertford or Stevenage, I think you're completely clutching at straws on that. Even after 10pm you're looking at 2 tph running fast from FP to Hitchin until 1 am. Even if you just missed one, it'd still be quicker than sitting on a jaunt around the Hertford Loop. In fact even if you missed the fast, the next semi-fast would come in which would still be quicker than via Hertford.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2021 ==

Extending to Spalding, I agree would be a strong idea along with a Deepings station. What I would say with Stamford though because its a short distance to wire up it might be an easier sell along with it being a railhead for Oakham and certainly villages west the A1. Though I do think that an extention to Spalding would be attractive and a real economic driver for the area in particular Boston and Holbeach.

Stamford wouldn't be a railhead for Oakham even then, partly because Oakham is even smaller than Stamford (10k people), and because you've got Corby 15 miles away (compared to Stamford's 10) which will very soon have a half-hourly fast service to London. Peterboro's TL sevices take 1h 10m ish to London, add another 10 - 15 mins to reach Stamford.

Corby's a similar journey time.

 

[HST43257]

Extending the London to Lincoln LNER service to "Gainsborough Lea Road" on the morning and evening service which is an ECS to Doncaster.

Rather see it come from Cleethorpes or Grimsby - an early one but would be a decent compromise for a 1tp2h service if that’s not possible.

Not an ECS Service but...

I would also wire up P'boro to Stamford to extend the Thameslink and GN fast too - possibly hourly.

With a bit of extra wiring, I’d say 1tph of the Thameslink to Spalding and 1tph to Stamford. The Spalding one means no need for an EMR shuttle and less crossing on the mainline south of PBO.

 

[Halifaxlad]

For a while now I have thought it may be good if the Harrogate services were looped round with the stoppers between York & Leeds.

 

[HST43257]

For a while now I have thought it may be good if the Harrogate services were looped round with the stoppers between York & Leeds.

I think there’d need to be slightly complicated crossing moves at the west end of Leeds. HGT line services better kept with the Airedales in 0-5(?).