Class 93 Tri-mode Loco

[HamBuoy]

Interesting - thanks for posting.

On the tractive effort curves photo, anyone know what 'DAVIS PASS.250 ton' 'DAVIS PASS.2500 ton' etc. means or implies? The associated lines on the graph curve upwards (rather than down) as speed increases.

I think they are Davis equation resistance curves going by what I can find by googling.

Rail vehicle resistance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://railknowledgebank.com/Presto/content/GetDoc.axd?ctID=MTk4MTRjNDUtNWQ0My00OTBmLTllYWUtZWFjM2U2OTE0ZDY3&rID=NDQwMA==&pID=Nzkx&attchmnt=True&uSesDM=False&rIdx=MzMxMQ==&rCFU=

 

[ac6000cw]

I think they are Davis equation resistance curves going by what I can find by googling.

Rail vehicle resistance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://railknowledgebank.com/Presto/content/GetDoc.axd?ctID=MTk4MTRjNDUtNWQ0My00OTBmLTllYWUtZWFjM2U2OTE0ZDY3&rID=NDQwMA==&pID=Nzkx&attchmnt=True&uSesDM=False&rIdx=MzMxMQ==&rCFU=

Thanks - not come across that before (or I've forgotten about it!).

 

[BlueLeanie]

Interesting.

That Engine weighs 3 tonnes dry weight, the generator set is 2 tonnes, there’s nearly 3 tonnes of diesel fuel in the tank; add in exhaust system, coolant system, fluids etc etc and there’s easily 10 tonnes there for a 900kW engine.

If there wasn't 10 tonnes of engine gubbins, would these locos need to be ballasted to haul heavy freight?

 

[Bald Rick]

If there wasn't 10 tonnes of engine gubbins, would these locos need to be ballasted to haul heavy freight?

Probably. Would have been interesting if they had been ballasted with some form of Lithium compound.

 

[800001]

Same as what was given out at Long Marston rail live earlier this year.

Mostly info everyone knows from online sources and posted elsewhere but interesting nether the less.

Never seen it posted anywhere else , hence posting on here today!

 

[Rail Quest]

Not my video, but someone's posted an excellent video essentially documenting their 93 cab experience:

A couple of observations from this video:
- The controls to change between the different power modes are to the right of the driver on the desk (explained at 2:49 in the video)
- The power handle is smooth rather than the 8 notches seen on the Class 68 and 88
- The ROG staff expressed that they hoped to get paperwork signed off for the locomotives in the next few weeks (explained at 9:29 in the video)
- Based on what the ROG staff said about the testing process at 12:30, the only issue experienced was a sudden brake application during the high-speed loaded tests, which was rectified with a software change.

 

[AndrewE]

Probably. Would have been interesting if they had been ballasted with some form of Lithium compound.

but lead in the same application would give more effective ballast...

 

[hwl]

Attached below are some pictures taken from a small brochure given to people who had a cab ride in the 93 at Derby The Greatest Gathering.

It shows you detailed information about the loco, including Traction Curves and Braking Curves.

Bonus points if you can spot the mislabelling on the right hand set of graphs in image 1.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2025 ==

Thanks - not come across that before (or I've forgotten about it!).

That is how Stadler refer to train resistances in modelling. It is Davis equation approach rather that being a true Davis format equation

 

[GLC]

I was on one of the cab rides of the 93. I guess there wasn’t any real opportunity for regen but I was surprised at how much battery was used on my run. Ended up using about 10% from both banks over the course of my trip

 

[Noddy]

but lead in the same application would give more effective ballast...

…but much less power density…

 

[Nottingham59]

I was on one of the cab rides of the 93. I guess there wasn’t any real opportunity for regen but I was surprised at how much battery was used on my run. Ended up using about 10% from both banks over the course of my trip

I'm not that surprised. The 93 has battery capacity for twelve minutes running at full power.

 

[ac6000cw]

Bonus points if you can spot the mislabelling on the right hand set of graphs in image 1.

The speed axis on the left graph appears to be in mph but is labeled as km/h? (judged by where the knee is in the TE curves on the two graphs). Also what's a 'ZV Diagram' ?

(And I think the right graph should really be labeled Traction and Braking Curves, not just Brake Curves)

 

[hwl]

The speed axis on the left graph appears to be in mph but is labeled as km/h? (judged by where the knee is in the TE curves on the two graphs). Also what's a 'ZV Diagram' ?

(And I think the right graph should really be labeled Traction and Braking Curves, not just Brake Curves)

ZV = Zugkraft Velocity diagramm,
Zugkraft translates to TE in English "train power"

On the right chart the 25kV AC and Battery braking effort curves (the 2 below the axis) are labeled the wrong way round. Then are numberous axes mislablelings / misuniting you spotted.

Shame there wasn't a bit of proof reading.

The other bit of german to look out for on chart is the braking charts being referred to as BV (Bremsekraft...)

 

[ac6000cw]

Shame there wasn't a bit of proof reading.

I agree - proof reading (and sometimes basic sanity checking of data) does seem to be a bit of a lost art today...

 

[Jacob Porrett]

My photo of 93003 at Derby yesterday (1/8/25) Must say they are a beast of a locomotive and look really impressive. My first encounter with one as well.

 

[800001]

...but maybe not officially!

The photo was taken by the ROG fleet engineer, as they have just posted the picture on the Class 93 Locomotive group on Facebook.
The photo was taken in the Up Yard.

 

[Suraggu]

Green Signals have just published a video with regards to the Class 93.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Interesting to hear that customer trials could start soon, I wonder who they are?

 

[Chris125]

Green Signals have just published a video with regards to the Class 93.

Interesting that they removed the dellners because it restricts the curve radius too much, known issue with other loco types too or design flaw?

 

[Suraggu]

Interesting to hear that customer trials could start soon, I wonder who they are?

It’s well known Freightliner are interested, however the locos cannot be used on revenue earning trains until they have received type approval.

So as soon as that arrives, I suspect it won’t be long before they begin.

 

[Rail Quest]

Green Signals have just published a video with regards to the Class 93.

This is a fascinating video, especially seeing footage taken on board one of the test runs between Crewe and Carlisle. ROG have clearly gone for a one-size-fits-all *most* product and, whilst I was initially struggling to see what the locomotives would be used for, their performance is convincing me that a niche will be found in which they'll thrive.

 

[43096]

It’s well known Freightliner are interested

How much they are interested, we will see. But they have acquired four Class 90s from DB over the last 18 months or so, which suggests they wouldn't be after big numbers.

 

[Class15]

How much they are interested, we will see. But they have acquired four Class 90s from DB over the last 18 months or so, which suggests they wouldn't be after big numbers.

The class 90s can’t do a lot of things FL might use the 93s for. Off the top of my head the 10 93s could be well utilised on the following:

Felixstowe to Lawley St
Felixstowe to Wentloog
London Gateway (LG) to Trafford Park
LG to Ditton
LG to Lawley St
LG to Wentloog
LG to Garston

All these services do not currently use class 90s, and even if they did (some of them could), would need a loco change at either Ipswich or Ripple Lane/Wembley.

 

[bahnause]

This is a common problem with automatic couplers. Their deflection in curves is limited by the geometry. Their ability to couple or uncouple in curves is also limited.

 

[birchesgreen]

This is a common problem with automatic couplers. Their deflection in curves is limited by the geometry. Their ability to couple or uncouple in curves is also limited.

Have that problem with couplers on my line too, mind you that one is N gauge.

 

[hwl]

How much they are interested, we will see. But they have acquired four Class 90s from DB over the last 18 months or so, which suggests they wouldn't be after big numbers.

There aren't big numbers of 93s though.

The class 90s can’t do a lot of things FL might use the 93s for. Off the top of my head the 10 93s could be well utilised on the following:

Felixstowe to Lawley St
Felixstowe to Wentloog
London Gateway (LG) to Trafford Park
LG to Ditton
LG to Lawley St
LG to Wentloog
LG to Garston

All these services do not currently use class 90s, and even if they did (some of them could), would need a loco change at either Ipswich or Ripple Lane/Wembley.

Not enough 93s for that.

In terms of capability the diesel + battery combo is useful for solving the London Gateway issue but not for Felixstowe with any meaningful load, hence the normally lightly loaded Wentloog services might be the only Felixstowe service that makes sense

 

[zwk500]

There aren't big numbers of 93s though.

Not enough 93s for that.

In terms of capability the diesel + battery combo is useful for solving the London Gateway issue but not for Felixstowe with any meaningful load, hence the normally lightly loaded Wentloog services might be the only Felixstowe service that makes sense

I can see them ending up on runs to/from London Gateway regularly. Trafford Park, Ditton, Wentloog and Garston are wired at least up to the junction from the mainline, Lawley St is a bit trickier from Nuneaton to Water Orton but then you're on the goods lines and don't need to be going fast. The wiring of Acton Bank will also be a handy bonus to LG-Wentloog although the diesel and battery would probably be enough without OLE.

 

[hwl]

I can see them ending up on runs to/from London Gateway regularly. Trafford Park, Ditton, Wentloog and Garston are wired at least up to the junction from the mainline, Lawley St is a bit trickier from Nuneaton to Water Orton but then you're on the goods lines and don't need to be going fast. The wiring of Acton Bank will also be a handy bonus to LG-Wentloog although the diesel and battery would probably be enough without OLE.

Agreed, the Acton Bank wiring is probably a tipping point for 93 traffic to/from Wentloog in practice as it is a bit too close for comfort.

 

[47286Dan]

This mornings working

93004 GROG WORKSP DY 260Q041F11 F NEWARKNGT B

Dan

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2025 ==

This mornings workings

93005 GROG WORKSP DY 260Q041E13 F NEWARKNGT B

93003 GROG DERBY LIT 570Q262F13 F WORKSP DY B
93009 GROG DERBY LIT 570Q262F13 F WORKSP DY B

Dan

 

[PHWO]

Wed 13 Aug 0Q26 Derby to Worksop via Old Road, Sheffield, Derby, Long Eaton etc (strange route I know) is 93009 and 93003