Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[PG]

2028 for introduction then!

On a serious note, surely your driver union team have been involved throughout with the design and layout of the cab? I thought they were always involved early on to agree that everything is acceptable?

This has echoes of the 701 cab (non-)acceptance written all over it...

 

[Kneedown]

It’s hard to say as I didn’t actually move it and it was a hop in hop out look, but the nose felt longer than a 222, definitely harder to judge where the coupler would be. I jumped straight in a 222 after I’d been in the 810 and it confirmed what I’d thought, the 222 seemed stubby compared to the 810. I’m under 6ft too but the seat and pedal had loads of movement. Just felt a bit like you had blinkers on with the screen ‘walls’ rather side of you.

Cheers for that. I'll probably just have to wait until I learn them to find out. I know the pedal height is adjustable, but that's not much use if the seat only comes so high. As you'll know, some Drivers are even more vertically challenged than me.
It does appear to be a lovely, well thought out cab design though, and I'm looking forward to learning them. 222s are a bit samey since we lost the HSTs, and indeed 180s, and I don't get much 360 work.

 

[kevjs]

One of the things here is the USB A is limited to 500mA at 5 Volts. USB C can provide far more current and voltage, which gets back to overall load issues, and folks causing the circuit to trip. A coach full of folks charging their phone via USB A is one thing. A coach load of folks running their MacBook laptops powered via USB C is an entirely different thing!

USB-C PD allows the chargers to negotiate what they output - On most multi-output chargers the power actually gets cut to all devices when something new is plugged in and the devices renegotiate - e.g. on my 90W charger the 45W port will only output that with a maximum of two devices connected, connect a forth and it drops to 25W. My Laptop require at 110W charger to fully charge & power itself, but under normal office tasks a 45W charger is sufficient to stop the battery draining, and even a 25W charger will slowly charge it when turned off. USB-C is very flexible in this regard.

Would probably struggle scaling that to coach level, but at pair of seat/table level that sort of thing could work, providing maximum power on your own, dropping down as more devices are attached.

Using USB-C universally (on the railways, buses, taxis, and transport interchanges) would mean that eScooters, hair curlers etc couldn't even be plugged in, while meaning people don't need to carry 3 separate things with them constantly to ensure they can connect it (USB-C to USB-C Cable; USB-C to USB-A Adapter; standard charger).

 

[GoneSouth]

The purple walls looks great

You make it sound like a Premiere Inn

 

[bib]

Appear to have 2 hooks for cycles to hang from

Might be an issue at times / require enforcement of reservations. I've taken evening commuter trains from Derby-Leicester a few times over the summer and there's been 3-6 bikes wedged in, although generally at least 1-2 of them have been folding bikes that can be kept in the vestibule/luggage rack. I suppose if they run 810s as 2x5 cars in the peak then there would be 4 spaces.

 

[Aspen90]

Yes it’s the 2 bike spaces. Some of the comments from cyclists on EMR twitter etc are quite abrupt! I take a pushchair with me on the train and I fold it up as requested. I know I use the train a lot so bought a suitable compact pushchair accordingly. Some cyclists expect a whole coach for these non folding bikes!

 

[InTheEastMids]

Yes it’s the 2 bike spaces. Some of the comments from cyclists on EMR twitter etc are quite abrupt! I take a pushchair with me on the train and I fold it up as requested. I know I use the train a lot so bought a suitable compact pushchair accordingly. Some cyclists expect a whole coach for these non folding bikes!

It is not unreasonable to aspire to an integrated transport system that properly supports cyclists. I think it's fair to say that historically at least, both highways engineers and the rail industry have viewed them as a nuisance/after-thought, and many people still do (which does help explain why people can get a bit militant about these things).

The point I would make is that the 810s perhaps perpetuate this thinking at a time when the city centre destinations served by every EMR train are seeing significant investment to promote cycling - particularly London. So demand for carrying bikes is probably going to increase and I wonder if 3-4 spaces per 5-car train might be a bit more future-proof. Although in general I'd hope anyone doing a frequent commute by rail and bike can take advantage of a Cycle to Work scheme to get a half-decent folding bike.

A bit OT but hopefully GBR will make some progress on things like
- integrating (e-)bike rental into ticketing and stations, just make it seamless like we have with Travelcards for the last few decades
- station-station bicycle shipping so that people can travel without their bikes, as I am not sure that the 153-based solution that Scotrail are using would work very well with an 810

 

[Meerkat]

It is not unreasonable to aspire to an integrated transport system that properly supports cyclists. I think it's fair to say that historically at least, both highways engineers and the rail industry have viewed them as a nuisance/after-thought, and many people still do (which does help explain why people can get a bit militant about these things).

The point I would make is that the 810s perhaps perpetuate this thinking at a time when the city centre destinations served by every EMR train are seeing significant investment to promote cycling - particularly London. So demand for carrying bikes is probably going to increase and I wonder if 3-4 spaces per 5-car train might be a bit more future-proof. Although in general I'd hope anyone doing a frequent commute by rail and bike can take advantage of a Cycle to Work scheme to get a half-decent folding bike.

A bit OT but hopefully GBR will make some progress on things like
- integrating (e-)bike rental into ticketing and stations, just make it seamless like we have with Travelcards for the last few decades
- station-station bicycle shipping so that people can travel without their bikes, as I am not sure that the 153-based solution that Scotrail are using would work very well with an 810

Bike rental schemes at the destination would be better than a load of awkward bikes using precious capacity on the 810s. Bikes are a pain moving through stations too ( especially at Guildford where GWR allow bikes in the peak and they are often mountain bikes heading for the hills, with ludicrously wide handlebars!)

 

[irish_rail]

Did you find the high dash affected forward visibility much?
The simulator has appalling forward visibility for those of us under 6ft tall, but I'm hoping it's just the way the seat is mounted in the room.

Certainly with the GWR 80x, the view is restricted by the very high dash. It doesn't help that the driving seats tend to be quite unpredictable , in that sometimes they allow the driver to sit high up with a view , whereas other times the seat doesn't want to rise to any height at all, causing a very poor forward view. This also causes a sensation of going far slower than is actually the case, and so the risk is you think you are hitting a platform just right, then look at the speedo and it's squeaky bum time! Removing the strip of carpet at top of the dash would help, still not sure what it's purpose is?!

 

[800001]

Certainly with the GWR 80x, the view is restricted by the very high dash. It doesn't help that the driving seats tend to be quite unpredictable , in that sometimes they allow the driver to sit high up with a view , whereas other times the seat doesn't want to rise to any height at all, causing a very poor forward view. This also causes a sensation of going far slower than is actually the case, and so the risk is you think you are hitting a platform just right, then look at the speedo and it's squeaky bum time! Removing the strip of carpet at top of the dash would help, still not sure what it's purpose is?!

The carpet is there to place your hand on when standing and leaning forward to watch train when it couples (so I’ve been told).

 

[irish_rail]

The carpet is there to place your hand on when standing and leaning forward to watch train when it couples (so I’ve been told).

I've heard many different stories on what it's for, but never had an official explanation. Either way, it isn't helpful in my view (as someone who has driven the things for past 6 years).

 

[800001]

I've heard many different stories on what it's for, but never had an official explanation. Either way, it isn't helpful in my view (as someone who has driven the things for past 6 years).

It’s really reassuring when people can’t tell you what things are for……

 

[LowLevel]

Certainly with the GWR 80x, the view is restricted by the very high dash. It doesn't help that the driving seats tend to be quite unpredictable , in that sometimes they allow the driver to sit high up with a view , whereas other times the seat doesn't want to rise to any height at all, causing a very poor forward view. This also causes a sensation of going far slower than is actually the case, and so the risk is you think you are hitting a platform just right, then look at the speedo and it's squeaky bum time! Removing the strip of carpet at top of the dash would help, still not sure what it's purpose is?!

Along with similar retrofitted rubber steps on other traction such as 170 my understanding is that it's there to try and cushion any impact on your head against the desk in the case of a sudden deceleration or impact. I'm sure I had that from a rolling stock designer.

 

[Kneedown]

Along with similar retrofitted rubber steps on other traction such as 170 my understanding is that it's there to try and cushion any impact on your head against the desk in the case of a sudden deceleration or impact. I'm sure I had that from a rolling stock designer.

I suppose if you find yourself in that situation, a carpet burn on the forehead will be the least of your worries.

 

[irish_rail]

Along with similar retrofitted rubber steps on other traction such as 170 my understanding is that it's there to try and cushion any impact on your head against the desk in the case of a sudden deceleration or impact. I'm sure I had that from a rolling stock designer.

Except the strip is too far away from where your head would go if in that situation. You'd need to be 7 foot tall for your head to impact that area during those circumstances, so again I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced Hitachi actually knows either, certainly the travelling fitters can't give a definitive answer. Removing it would give better forward vision and a more realistic feeling of speed, and would cost nothing.

 

[Aspen90]

Just used Avanti and I know it’s only a minor thing but lighting… The lighting on a Pendolino is warm and inviting, the 80X lighting is so over the top. It’s too bright and harsh. How do people sleep on them? I’ve heard the 810 has variable lighting so hopefully they can be dimmed. Can anyone shed any (pardon the pun) light on this?

 

[baz962]

It’s really reassuring when people can’t tell you what things are for……

I'm going to put a pot plant on it

 

[800001]

I'm going to put a pot plant on it

As long as it has a FTR certified by Hitachi first

 

[traindoll]

Bit late to the party but can anyone explain why the 810s are running on diesel in layman’s terms? I thought the industry was moving away from diesel?

 

[800001]

Bit late to the party but can anyone explain why the 810s are running on diesel in layman’s terms? I thought the industry was moving away from diesel?

Because when they were ordered OHL was not planned to reach Sheffield/Nottingham for several years, as Midland line is getting Electrified in small sections.

When or if it does get all electrified, engines can be removed.

 

[Kneedown]

Because when they were ordered OHL was not planned to reach Sheffield/Nottingham for several years, as Midland line is getting Electrified in small sections.

When or if it does get all electrified, engines can be removed.

They won't be removed though, as there is no current plan to electrify the many diversionary routes that keep the MML services relatively robust.

 

[800001]

They won't be removed though, as there is no current plan to electrify the many diversionary routes that keep the MML services relatively robust.

Hence I wrote ‘when or if’.

 

[QSK19]

They won't be removed though, as there is no current plan to electrify the many diversionary routes that keep the MML services relatively robust.

I suppose they could be removed if and when battery technology becomes viable. So long as there is some sort of traction method that allows operation on non-electrified lines, diesel or otherwise.

 

[Aspen90]

I suppose they could be removed if and when battery technology becomes viable. So long as there is some sort of traction method that allows operation on non-electrified lines, diesel or otherwise.

One problem I was thinking… If there’s a power problem and they have to revert to diesel… Great when there’s 4 engines but lose one and you’d be stuffed up Sharnbrook! 222’s it’s doable on 4 engines but they’ve got 5 to start with.

 

[Richard Scott]

One problem I was thinking… If there’s a power problem and they have to revert to diesel… Great when there’s 4 engines but lose one and you’d be stuffed up Sharnbrook! 222’s it’s doable on 4 engines but they’ve got 5 to start with.

Really, they're not exactly low power to start with. 45s et al all managed dragging greater loads.
Progress may be slower but can't believe they wouldn't manage.

 

[NSEWonderer]

One problem I was thinking… If there’s a power problem and they have to revert to diesel… Great when there’s 4 engines but lose one and you’d be stuffed up Sharnbrook! 222’s it’s doable on 4 engines but they’ve got 5 to start with.

Wasn't it said that the 810s 4 engines together produce more HP than all 5 engines on the 222? So I'm assuming they'd be able to run on 3 plus they should be lighter surely.

 

[dk1]

Wasn't it said that the 810s 4 engines together produce more HP than all 5 engines on the 222? So I'm assuming they'd be able to run on 3 plus they should be lighter surely.

Yes you’d be able to run on three but best to have four for insurance purposes. On the 755/4s we can run on three but you notice the difference with acceleration. Best to have a full quota.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Yes you’d be able to run on three but best to have four for insurance purposes. On the 755/4s we can run on three but you notice the difference with acceleration. Best to have a full quota.

Indeed

 

[Aspen90]

My faith and trust in maintenance is clearly well below everybody else’s

 

[800001]

My faith and trust in maintenance is clearly well below everybody else’s

If it’s like all over 8Xx they will have one engine not working within weeks or interdiction.

Several of Avanti 805s are already running with one engine not working.