Class 80x / IET Hate

[sh24]

What do you mean lit up like a dental surgery? Can you elaborate

From my point of view and now considerable experience, a stark, bright white colour temperature in a space that has a lot of shiny reflective finishes. Travelling after dark they are not a calm and restful space at all.

 

[bramling]

hi, so I've been looking around the forum for a while before I had an account but this is my first actual post.

I've realised everyone always SWEARS that the class 80x is bad or it's uncomfy, like they try to bring up every reason saying it's bad or worse than older stock. I don't understand, they have so many new features compared to older stock, like you can TELL its more advanced and upgraded. I find them way better to travel on than other trains, it's not loud or hot or anything that makes it uncomfy in any way. I just can't understand it because everyone that has some sort of interest in trains ALWAYS has something bad to say about it, acting like they got personally insulted by the train itself like a grudge.. its so weird, it feels like I missed a secret meeting where we all pretend they are awful.

Sorry if you saw this already, I had to edit something.

I wouldn’t say they are horrendously bad, but there are certainly some genuine issues. The seats are awful for one, and it does seem increasingly apparent that the build quality isn’t great. The other big issue, for some fleets, is the somewhat restrictive Hitachi contract.

They do their job, however for a flagship train, and a very expensive one at that, they ought to have been a lot better. Let’s hope some of these issues get addressed over time, one thing we really don’t want is them becoming a “problem child” as they age, especially given how many of them there are.

 

[superalbs]

What do you mean lit up like a dental surgery? Can you elaborate

He means they have ridiculously bright lighting, unlike basically any other long-distance train in the world because it's not conducive to producing a pleasant atmosphere.

Just look at this picture of an interior at night:

 

[charlier]

I'm lucky enough to have been on over 800 different types of train, and never have I encountered a train so unapologetically diabolical as the UK Class 800s. Riding on them is an assault on the senses.

Stepping on-board, you are met with lights that are just too bright, and this is even worse in hours of darkness. It is genuinely unpleasant to have such bright lighting on a train that operates on a metro service, but even worse for a train that is very often used for long-distances.

The seating is pathetic. It was rubbish from day one, unusually upright and nowhere near enough padding. Then the seat cushions promptly went on to collapse, so now you just get to sit on a metal/plastic bar, which is pathetic for a premier rail service in western Europe.

Then there's the ride quality, and oh my god is it bad! Each unit seems to vary, ranging from "bad" to "shocking". It's common to hear loud underfloor banging sounds, or harsh lateral hunting for long periods. Drinks are often spilled and objects are moved around simply by being placed on the tables.

And to add to that, the interior styling is bleak and dull, which of course does not go well with the harsh lighting. Also the interior feels cheap, which makes sense because it is, and there are often loose parts or rattles.

I hate useless rancid these things so much, they're just awful in every way. I certainly don't miss them when spending time in other countries, which I tend to do a lot these days.

I see a lot of people are complaining about the lights but in reality the lights seem better than other trains, they are a warmer tone of white, not cool white and they are also not too bright like other trains. I think a lot of people think this because of some photos and how they change the appearance of the lighting for example the first image I'm going to attach is a photo which is taken with no light outside leading to the camera not adjusting properly, (not my photo) and the 2nd is where I recreated this by also taking a photo when it is dark outside. you can see they are both have the same bright lighting you are describing.

It is genuinely unpleasant to have such bright lighting

However it does not look like this in real life. When your camera adjusts properly in the day time you can take an actual picture of the lights (photo 3). As you can see the actual lighting is a lot less bright and a more warmer tone. I think that people are making up fake memories in their head about the lighting because of photos online they have seen online that don't reflect the actual lighting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

He means they have ridiculously bright lighting, unlike basically any other long-distance train in the world because it's not conducive to producing a pleasant atmosphere.

Just look at this picture of an interior at night:

I didnt even realise since I didnt refresh the page however that is JUST like the photo I used for my example about how that isn't what the lighting actually looks like in real life, please read my message above this.

 

[sh24]

However it does not look like this in real life. When your camera adjusts properly in the day time you can take an actual picture of the lights (photo 3). As you can see the actual lighting is a lot less bright and a more warmer tone. I think that people are making up fake memories in their head about the lighting because of photos online they have seen online that don't reflect the actual lighting.

I travel on them weekly, often after dark. They really DO look like superalbs picture. In First the lighting is my single biggest gripe with the trains.

 

[AlterEgo]

I see a lot of people are complaining about the lights but in reality the lights seem better than other trains, they are a warmer tone of white, not cool white and they are also not too bright like other trains. I think a lot of people think this because of some photos and how they change the appearance of the lighting

No, people think this because they have done literally thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of miles on the things and remember what they replaced. I’m going on two tomorrow, but thankfully not after dark when it is most obnoxious.

 

[Sorcerer]

I've not travelled on a lot of 80x trains, just the Class 802 with TransPennine Express. While I wouldn't say it's a truly abominable product it definitely has noticeable problems. The seats aren't that great and the lighting is very intense at dark hours. It actually almost hurt my eyes which is not ideal for a train designed for long journeys. Comfort really does make all the difference, especially for InterCity travel, and the DfT really doesn't appreciate this enough.

But I've heard the TPE 802s are actually some of the better examples. GWR's 800/801 seats are already falling apart on some sets, and the interior is ghastly with it's bright lighting and lime green colours. LNER definitely has one over them in that regard. I'm travelling on an Avanti 807 tomorrow and am told it is considerably better, but I'll see for myself very soon. But in either case, I still prefer the 397, and I overwhelmingly prefer the 390.

 

[charlier]

I travel on them weekly, often after dark. They really DO look like superalbs picture. In First the lighting is my single biggest gripe with the trains.

It quite literally does not look like the photo.. it's only possible to look like that from a camera with no light coming from outside, from your eyes its different, less bright and warmer. You clearly didnt read what I said

 

[Harpo]

The ‘Dentist’s Chair’ was a popular enthusiast description of early mark 3s with harsh direct lighting. The final batch of loco-hauled mk3 FOs dealt with it through indirect diffuse lighting and they were lovely vehicles (mk4 test bed?). Development going into reverse again.

 

[superalbs]

I see a lot of people are complaining about the lights but in reality the lights seem better than other trains, they are a warmer tone of white, not cool white and they are also not too bright like other trains.

Calling the lights on the 800s warm is so far removed from reality. Warm lights aren't known for hurting eyes.

I think a lot of people think this because of some photos and how they change the appearance of the lighting.

I have done 200 hours on these trains, across 126 rides. I think this, not from photos, but because I actually ride on these trains.

However it does not look like this in real life. When your camera adjusts properly in the day time you can take an actual picture of the lights (photo 3). As you can see the actual lighting is a lot less bright and a more warmer tone. I think that people are making up fake memories in their head about the lighting because of photos online they have seen online that don't reflect the actual lighting.

So you're saying this isn't how it looks like in real life, while also explaining that you need your camera to adapt and manipulate the image to look how you want it to? Lol.

 

[yorksrob]

HSTs and MK3s were indeed excellent popular trains in the 70s and 80s and 90s when new but nowadays they are just old knackered outdated trains that belong on a heritage railway and not the mainline. I personally prefer the IETs to HSTs if i am given a choice. A lot of enthusiasts were unhappy with IETs replacing HSTs but i see it as an upgrade even though the 8XXs are not the best.

The traditional interior of a first class mk3 knocks anything new into a cocked hat as far as I'm concerned.

 

[leighsw2]

From my point of view and now considerable experience, a stark, bright white colour temperature in a space that has a lot of shiny reflective finishes. Travelling after dark they are not a calm and restful space at all.

This is a really important point for someone like me who is neuro-divergent with a light sensitivity - I couldn't travel in that kind of environment for any length of time (and certainly not after dark). I don't travel much by train these days, and I've never experienced these units, but they do sound terrible!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

He means they have ridiculously bright lighting, unlike basically any other long-distance train in the world because it's not conducive to producing a pleasant atmosphere.

Just look at this picture of an interior at night:

And seeing that interior, it looks like a (literal) nightmare! I suppose this is what a train looks like when it's designed by civil servants?

 

[charlier]

Calling the lights on the 800s warm is so far removed from reality. Warm lights aren't known for hurting eyes.


I have done 200 hours on these trains, across 126 rides. I think this, not from photos, but because I actually ride on these trains.


So you're saying this isn't how it looks like in real life, while also explaining that you need your camera to adapt and manipulate the image to look how you want it to? Lol.

The fact they are literally warm and you just struggle to grasp onto that fact .. they have warm filters in them which darkens the colour and makes it a warm white you can tell this by looking at them or by using your iPhone camera without using ae/af lock, an example is my attachment. If these lights were not warm AT ALL, this would not be happening.

Then clearly in all those rides and hours you haven't taken the time to look at the lights and instead looked at photos and videos. As a 16 year old I'm aware that adults such as you have worse eyesight than me so maybe that might be the issue here, your eyes distorting the lights to what they actually are.

It is how it looks in real life, I just adjusted my iPhone camera to how the lights actually looked from my vision until it matched my phone .. It is not how I wanted it to looked because I prefer cooler colours on lights and mind you this photo was 2 weeks ago before I even thought about any of this, the next time you go on a IET maybe try do a test and look at the lights and you might be able to tell what I'm talking about, if you still can't see maybe because of your vision like I said earlier, try look out the window for a few seconds so your eyes get used to natural light and then look back at the interior and you will definitely be able to tell they are warm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

This is a really important point for someone like me who is neuro-divergent with a light sensitivity - I couldn't travel in that kind of environment for any length of time (and certainly not after dark). I don't travel much by train these days, and I've never experienced these units, but they do sound terrible!

Mind you ANY other train with LEDs have worse lighting than this .. these lights are warmer and darker than regular ones because of the filters and the brightness

 

[renegademaster]

The seats being uncomfortable is something I've definitely heard "normies" complain about on LNER trains.


IMO i slightly prefer the Azumas to Pendos or Voyagers(IETs in diesel mode are much less noisy) but that is not a high bar, since id prefer most modern stock to both.

 

[superalbs]

The fact they are literally warm and you just struggle to grasp onto that fact .. they have warm filters in them which darkens the colour and makes it a warm white you can tell this by looking at them or by using your iPhone camera without using ae/af lock, an example is my attachment. If these lights were not warm AT ALL, this would not be happening.

Then clearly in all those rides and hours you haven't taken the time to look at the lights and instead looked at photos and videos. As a 16 year old I'm aware that adults such as you have worse eyesight than me so maybe that might be the issue here, your eyes distorting the lights to what they actually are.

It is how it looks in real life, I just adjusted my iPhone camera to how the lights actually looked from my vision until it matched my phone .. It is not how I wanted it to looked because I prefer cooler colours on lights and mind you this photo was 2 weeks ago before I even thought about any of this, the next time you go on a IET maybe try do a test and look at the lights and you might be able to tell what I'm talking about, if you still can't see maybe because of your vision like I said earlier, try look out the window for a few seconds so your eyes get used to natural light and then look back at the interior and you will definitely be able to tell they are warm.

This photo you have presented looks nothing like reality. It's hilarious you are even trying to suggest that.

What a pointless stupid thread, to come on and ask what people don't like about some stupid kart, and then tell them they're wrong.

 

[signed]

Just from pictures (disclaimer : have not ridden one yet, will ride a TPE in a few weeks), the interior looks austere for a 1st tier service with 4+h runtime on some, it looks like a metro stock. So I can understand the outside hate.

Comparing with what was on offer basically anywhere else in the 2010s elsewhere is, from an interior look and feel-only standpoint is night and day.

 

[superalbs]

Just from pictures (disclaimer : have not ridden one yet, will ride a TPE in a few weeks), the interior looks austere for a 1st tier service with 4+h runtime on some, it looks like a metro stock. So I can understand the outside hate.

Comparing with what was on offer basically anywhere else in the 2010s elsewhere is, from an interior look and feel-only standpoint is night and day.

If you are used to the armchairs, ambience, and smooth ride on French trains, then you are in for a nasty shock I'm afraid...

 

[stadler]

If you are used to the armchairs, ambience, and smooth ride on French trains, then you are in for a nasty shock I'm afraid...

I would take an 80X over TGV stock any day. The seats and ride quality may be better on TGV trains (although that is also partly due to track quality) but overall the 80X are far more pleasant trains to travel on.

 

[signed]

If you are used to the armchairs, ambience, and smooth ride on French trains, then you are in for a nasty shock I'm afraid...

Even the (original) Ouigo cabin looks better, which shouldn't even be possible with the eyesore color scheme of ouigo.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

but overall the 80X are far more pleasant trains to travel on.

Genuinely curious as to what you find more pleasant on a 80x?

TGVs are far from perfect, can feel cramped on lower-level, and the Oceane 2nd class is something, but I can't see, from pictures alone anything.

 

[stadler]

Even the (original) Ouigo cabin looks better, which shouldn't even be possible with the eyesore color scheme of ouigo

Dont they use the same seats as our Electrostar classes 375 and 377 trains on the Ouigo units. I seem to remember they were practically the same seats but just different moquette. Those are certainly a bit more comfortable than the 80X seats.

Genuinely curious as to what you find more pleasant on a 80x?

I find the 80X has a nicer brighter interior. I know a lot of people complain but i really like the bright ambiance of the 80X stock. Also some of the TGV stock (especially the double deck TGV Duplex one) feels a bit cramped and poorly designed. The design of the trains with minimal doors is also quite poor and results in long dwell times and taking ages to get on and off. Neither are my favourites but i would always prefer an 80X over any TGV train.

 

[AlterEgo]

The fact they are literally warm and you just struggle to grasp onto that fact .. they have warm filters in them which darkens the colour and makes it a warm white you can tell this by looking at them or by using your iPhone camera without using ae/af lock, an example is my attachment. If these lights were not warm AT ALL, this would not be happening.

Then clearly in all those rides and hours you haven't taken the time to look at the lights and instead looked at photos and videos. As a 16 year old I'm aware that adults such as you have worse eyesight than me so maybe that might be the issue here, your eyes distorting the lights to what they actually are.

It is how it looks in real life, I just adjusted my iPhone camera to how the lights actually looked from my vision until it matched my phone .. It is not how I wanted it to looked because I prefer cooler colours on lights and mind you this photo was 2 weeks ago before I even thought about any of this, the next time you go on a IET maybe try do a test and look at the lights and you might be able to tell what I'm talking about, if you still can't see maybe because of your vision like I said earlier, try look out the window for a few seconds so your eyes get used to natural light and then look back at the interior and you will definitely be able to tell they are warm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==


Mind you ANY other train with LEDs have worse lighting than this .. these lights are warmer and darker than regular ones because of the filters and the brightness

Look, you’ve come onto the forum to ask people why they don’t like a specific train. These trains are unpopular amongst enthusiasts generally for the reasons already stated. If you don’t agree, that’s fine, but to try and gaslight people who have probably ridden these trains a lot more than you is quite daft.

You can only make the lights look warm and dim by taking a photograph during the day and then editing it. The whole point is these trains have appalling ambience due to the bright lighting, which is of course worst in hours of darkness. What should I look out of the window at, when it’s 10pm? The sun setting over the Serengeti? A supernova? Katie Price’s Turkey teeth?

 

[charlier]

This photo you have presented looks nothing like reality. It's hilarious you are even trying to suggest that.

What a pointless stupid thread, to come on and ask what people don't like about some stupid kart, and then tell them they're wrong.

It wasn’t meant to look like reality, that was the point. don’t talk about lighting if you can’t even see or read anyways..

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The seats are not uncomfy though.. People say that with no evidence

 

[signed]

The design of the trains with minimal doors is also quite poor and results in long dwell times and taking ages to get on and off.

I would say they were specced different purposes and that as long as you get up a few minutes before arrival you're out of the door in no-time. Getting on at an intermediate is a major painpoint indeed though. I would compare the spec of 80x to a intercity unit like a Coradia Liner which is a much more stop intensive spec than a HS spec.

I find the 80X has a nicer brighter interior. I know a lot of people complain but i really like the bright ambiance of the 80X stock. Also some of the TGV stock (especially the double deck TGV Duplex one) feels a bit cramped and poorly designed. The design of the trains with minimal doors is also quite poor and results in long dwell times and taking ages to get on and off. Neither are my favourites but i would always prefer an 80X over any TGV train.

All fair points either way, thanks

 

[D1511]

What a pointless stupid thread, to come on and ask what people don't like about some stupid kart, and then tell them they're wrong.

Glad someone said this!

 

[charlier]

Glad someone said this!

How .. In other words they was basically saying they didn’t know what to reply with after everything I said

 

[superalbs]

It wasn’t meant to look like reality, that was the point. don’t talk about lighting if you can’t even see or read anyways..

I'm not sure that talking about how lighting looks if you edit or manipulate a photo is particularly productive or helpful. The reality is, people find their harsh cold lighting to be very unpleasant, as you have been told countless times by countless people who all sadly have lots of experience using these pitiful trains.

The seats are not uncomfy though.. People say that with no evidence

I think it has something to do with people not liking the idea of sitting on a thin piece of cloth placed over a metal bar. That doesn't tend to be one of my favourite ways to spend time.

 

[AlterEgo]

It wasn’t meant to look like reality, that was the point. don’t talk about lighting if you can’t even see or read anyways..

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

The seats are not uncomfy though.. People say that with no evidence

You were on the IET specification team and I claim my £5.

 

[superalbs]

How .. In other words they was basically saying they didn’t know what to reply with after everything I said

To be honest, the issue is that your motive is quite daft, but also the points you raise don't really make any sense.

Instead of just saying that you like the lighting, a totally valid if unpopular statement, you are telling people that the lighting is in fact not how they have seen and experienced it for the past 8 years.

 

[trainswitheddy]

The seats are not uncomfy though.. People say that with no evidence

With all due respect...
Is people not *saying* they are uncomfy evidence enough? Unless you are asking for a wider survery of the travelling public but I'm not sure how you'd 100% reliably do this when many probably don't know specifics of train types and just see it as "Metal box get me to work"

Edit:
Also, ultimately comfort is entirely subjective, what may be comfy for one is vastly uncomfortable for another (hence we don't have one type of matress)
For what it's worth, I don't *mind* the Azuma seating, when I used to commute every morrning for about 13 minutes it was fine for that, my long distance experiences vary, with only one time where I felt genuinely uncomfortable and couldn't settle.

 

[Welly]

View attachment 184468

It struck me that despite the provision of seat reservation screens above each seating pair, GWR is still using card flags for reserved seats!