Class 710 LO

[Peter Sarf]

Will the 710s replace all of the 378s at LO?

See my answer below

There are a few 378s that were intended to move from DC/NLL use to the ELL, but none are released. The majority of 710s were for West Anglia, the Goblin and Barking extension.

The 710/1s (4car AC 710101 - 710130 ) are working West Anglia (some 710/2s cover this as well).
The 710/2s (4car AC/DC 710256 - 710273 ) are working the GOBLIN and the Euston to Watford Junction line.
The 710/3s (5car AC/DC 710374 - 710379 ) are meant for the North London Line (NLL) but are currently to be found on the Eustom to Watford Junction Line.

Outstanding is the 6 x 710s for the North London Line (NLL) to release 6 (iirc) 378s for the East London Line improvements (ELL mentioned above). That is what the 5-car 710374-710379 are for. These improvements are yet to happen so currently 710270(4-car !), 710374, 710375 & 710379 are yet to enter service. Now 710270 & 710379 are delivered to London (Ilford) and are soon to enter service (fingers crossed). That leaves 710374 & 710375 yet to be delivered (imminent, fingers crossed). So London Overground currently have a slight surplus (2) of 710s until the ELR service improvements (increases) happen.

Many of the reports you see in the thread lately are pertaining to the prolonged wait for these last four 710s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2022 ==

hence :-

710379 outside Willesden depot today around 2pm, coupled to 710258.

Thanks @GeoffS, a trip across the Thames in this bracing weather now required.

 

[Jonny]

Why have 4-car ones for use on the Watford Junction (DC lines) services? I would have thought that 5 cars as a single train was more appropriate for the DC lines, and 5 cars fit the platforms in terms of length (unlike at least the 4 cars max on the GOBLIN platform at Gospel Oak)

 

[JonathanH]

Why have 4-car ones for use on the Watford Junction (DC lines) services?

I seem to recall it was intended to be 4-car with 4 trains an hour rather than 5-car with 3 trains an hour on the basis of that being what was affordable. However, they found that the 4-car trains didn't have enough capacity.

 

[Peter Sarf]

710379 outside Willesden depot today around 2pm, coupled to 710258.

Only one outside today at about 15:00 was 710378. Tried to see if that meant 379 was in service on Wat-Eus but ran out of time.

 

[swt_passenger]

It was intended to be 4-car with 4 trains an hour rather than 5-car with 3 trains an hour on the basis of that being what was affordable. However, they found that the 4-car trains didn't have enough capacity.

Should they still have options available to extend them, unless there was a time limit?

 

[Lewlew]

However, they found that the 4-car trains didn't have enough capacity.

No they never. They are only using the 5 car trains on the DC as the planned cascade on the NLL hasn’t happened yet.

The 4 cars are in a common pool with the GOBLIN, it would be too small of a micro fleet to just have the GOBLIN as 4 car so they included the DC lines.

 

[JonathanH]

No they never. They are only using the 5 car trains on the DC as the planned cascade on the NLL hasn’t happened yet.

The 4 cars are in a common pool with the GOBLIN, it would be too small of a micro fleet to just have the GOBLIN as 4 car so they included the DC lines.

Are you indicating that the DC will revert to more 4-car operation at some point?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Are you indicating that the DC will revert to more 4-car operation at some point?

That has always been the plan, in part countered with the increase from 3 to 4tph.

 

[Peter Sarf]

No they never. They are only using the 5 car trains on the DC as the planned cascade on the NLL hasn’t happened yet.

The 4 cars are in a common pool with the GOBLIN, it would be too small of a micro fleet to just have the GOBLIN as 4 car so they included the DC lines.

Snag is, as a result of the Watford - Euston (DC) fleet being in common with the GOBLIN fleet (4-car), there is now a micro fleet of six 5-car 710s for the NLL !. Granted of course having spare 4-car 710s for GOBLIN is useful as they can be covered by 5-car 710s on the Watford - Euston service.

Still get the odd 378 on the Watford - Euston service (saw 227 iirc yesterday).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Still get the odd 378 on the Watford - Euston service (saw 227 iirc yesterday).

I've come to expect USB sockets on that route now, so when this happens I'm less than thrilled. Although at least they have the proper announcements and not the silly illiterate take on RTR announcements as featured on Aventras.

 

[87015]

Still get the odd 378 on the Watford - Euston service (saw 227 iirc yesterday).

Two of the diagrams are designed for 378s, usually one out (the diagrams work in pairs over two days so two diagrams caters for one unit.) keeps it captive prior to transfer to NXG for maintenance. Given DfT binned off the ELL and WLL enhancements it’s only a lack of stabling space that will see 378s move now and why the 710s aren’t in any rush. Two are being kept back Alstom for next gen testing for 2023/2024 last I heard.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I'm not sure how relevant this is but 710376 passed West Brompton just after 0730 this morning with 5O80 Willesden Depot-Clapham (and back).

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm not sure how relevant this is but 710376 passed West Brompton just after 0730 this morning with 5O80 Willesden Depot-Clapham (and back).

Thanks @Matt Taylor That (710376) is one the three 5-car 710s that have been around for a while (376, 377 & 378). All six (374-379) are meant for the NLL (North London Line) but it seems the three so far in use (376, 377 & 378) are always on Watford-Euston. This may be its (710376's) first foray on the line it is meant for !. That would then mean 374*, 375* and 379 might be in use soon. Note 374 and 375 are not yet even delivered. The other missing from service 710 is 4-car 710270.

 

[Domk]

710 123 and 710 260 on platform 1 for the last 3 days looking snowed in. Can only assume it failed and cannot get to Chingford yet. Don’t know why photo is upside down ‍♂️

 

[D365]

imagine it needs a bit more defrosting than my car did!

 

[GW43125]

Speaking of 710s on the Watford DC, does anyone please know which diagrams are 378, and if the 5cars are separate diagrams or just as available?

 

[Lewlew]

Speaking of 710s on the Watford DC, does anyone please know which diagrams are 378, and if the 5cars are separate diagrams or just as available?

There doesn’t seem to be any pattern with the 4 car and 5 car 710s.

 

[Electrojuniper]

quick update:

710379 still not accepted - currently Willesden
710270 returning to derby before Christmas - currently Ilford
710375 Derby to Ilford new year
710374 / 710270 derby testing

5-car Class 710's have been in service on the NLR from Richmond / Clapham to Stratford. More to come in the future.

the transfer of 378's to ELL - still on the cards and will happen in due course. Up lift in service just delayed.

 

[800001]

quick update:

710379 still not accepted - currently Willesden
710270 returning to derby before Christmas - currently Ilford
710375 Derby to Ilford new year
710374 / 710270 derby testing

5-car Class 710's have been in service on the NLR from Richmond / Clapham to Stratford. More to come in the future.

the transfer of 378's to ELL - still on the cards and will happen in due course. Up lift in service just delayed.

Forgive my ignorance what is ELL? Is that East London Line? Thought 378s were already operating that route?

 

[Wolfie]

Forgive my ignorance what is ELL? Is that East London Line? Thought 378s were already operating that route?

The ELL is indeed the East London Line which is operated by 378s currently. The intent is to increase the frequency on that line hence more trains required. The 710s will backfill on the NLL (North London Line aka Richmond and Clapham Junction to Stratford).

 

[800001]

The ELL is indeed the East London Line which is operated by 378s currently. The intent is to increase the frequency on that line hence more trains required. The 710s will backfill on the NLL (North London Line aka Richmond and Clapham Junction to Stratford).

That now makes sense. Thank You.

 

[swt_passenger]

That now makes sense. Thank You.

The key point being that they need front access doors for the deep tunnel sections under and near the Thames. So transferring existing 378 and backfilling the numbers with 710 was the sensible solution.

 

[Wolfie]

The key point being that they need front access doors for the deep tunnel sections under and near the Thames. So transferring existing 378 and backfilling the numbers with 710 was the sensible solution.

Absolutely. New 378s weren't an option even if TfL wanted them. The 710s, like the 378s being transferred, are dial voltage. The extant ELL 378s are mostly third rail only.

 

[D365]

No need to spec the 710s with front-facing emergency doors, when only one London Overground route requires that specific feature.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I read somewhere that 710270 is to return from Ilford to Derby before Christmas. I thought it would have been on this thread, but seems not. So I will add it here. Does anyone know why ?. Or for how long (the piece of string is) ?.

EDIT - I now see post 2779 must be where I got it from.

 

[Dstock7080]

I read somewhere that 710270 is to return from Ilford to Derby before Christmas. I thought it would have been on this thread, but seems not.

Class 710 LO

Will the 710s replace all of the 378s at LO? See my answer below There are a few 378s that were intended to move from DC/NLL use to the ELL, but none are released. The majority of 710s were for West Anglia, the Goblin and Barking extension. The 710/1s (4car AC 710101 - 710130 ) are working...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Peter Sarf]

Class 710 LO

Will the 710s replace all of the 378s at LO? See my answer below There are a few 378s that were intended to move from DC/NLL use to the ELL, but none are released. The majority of 710s were for West Anglia, the Goblin and Barking extension. The 710/1s (4car AC 710101 - 710130 ) are working...

www.railforums.co.uk

My post from up thread answers your question.

See my answer below

The 710/1s (4car AC 710101 - 710130 ) are working West Anglia (some 710/2s cover this as well).
The 710/2s (4car AC/DC 710256 - 710273 ) are working the GOBLIN and the Euston to Watford Junction line.
The 710/3s (5car AC/DC 710374 - 710379 ) are meant for the North London Line (NLL) but are currently to be found on the Eustom to Watford Junction Line.

Outstanding is the 6 x 710s for the North London Line (NLL) to release 6 (iirc) 378s for the East London Line improvements (ELL mentioned above). That is what the 5-car 710374-710379 are for. These improvements are yet to happen so currently 710270(4-car !), 710374, 710375 & 710379 are yet to enter service. Now 710270 & 710379 are delivered to London (Ilford) and are soon to enter service (fingers crossed). That leaves 710374 & 710375 yet to be delivered (imminent, fingers crossed). So London Overground currently have a slight surplus (2) of 710s until the ELR service improvements (increases) happen.

Many of the reports you see in the thread lately are pertaining to the prolonged wait for these last four 710s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2022 ==

hence :-

Thanks @GeoffS, a trip across the Thames in this bracing weather now required.

So no, most of the 378s stay where they are. All that is yet to happen is only six dual voltage 378s moving from the North London Line to the East London Line. This can happen when the ELL is ready for the extra services and the six 710/3s are ready to work the NLL. The NLL will then be operated by a mix of mainly 378s and six 710s.

EDIT - I now see post 2779 must be where I got it from.

 

[ijmad]

Can the 710/3s go to Richmond yet? I recall they were going to fit a TPWS overlay so they could operate without tripcocks.

 

[greatkingrat]

Can the 710/3s go to Richmond yet? I recall they were going to fit a TPWS overlay so they could operate without tripcocks.

That happened a couple of years ago. All 378s have now had their tripcock removed, the 710s never had a tripcock.

 

[swt_passenger]

My post from up thread answers your question.

I don’t think that was meant to be a question.

It was a direct link to post #2779, where your previous question about 710270 in post #2786 had just been answered.

The problem is that the forum software includes a snippet from the first post of the page when you do a link. In this case the page starts with a question that I noticed because it has been combined with my answer, post #2761.