Class 458/5

[SpacePhoenix]

Do either 444s/450s or 458s have anything equivalent to ABS in a car?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Yep, they all have WSP (wheel spin/slide protection). However there's marked differences in levels of performance.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Yep, they all have WSP (wheel spin/slide protection). However there's marked differences in levels of performance.

Is it a standard WSP unit that SWTs use for all there classes or does each class have a different unit?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Different between classes, although the way they work is very similar.

Newer units automatically add sand to the braking as well to increase grip and if there's no sand in the sanders, it can result in the the train being cancelled as they don't take chances with not being able to stop.

Found that out the other week when my train got cancelled due to lack of sand in the sandboxes.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks like the 458/5 fleet is down a couple of units this morning

07:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 09:09 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :05/11/2015 05:08

08:10 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 09:35 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :05/11/2015 05:08

 

[swt_passenger]

Reported elsewhere that another unit arrived from Doncaster last night, 458512 with 74427 as extra car.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Is it a standard WSP unit that SWTs use for all there classes or does each class have a different unit?

Desiro and 458 use Knorr Bremse WSP systems that are incorporated into the brake control unit. Very similar in terms of 'the box' but the software and the way it is managed is different.

455/456 use an old system with logic cards.

The AC motored 455 gets a similar system to the 458 on retraction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Different between classes, although the way they work is very similar.

Newer units automatically add sand to the braking as well to increase grip and if there's no sand in the sanders, it can result in the the train being cancelled as they don't take chances with not being able to stop.

Found that out the other week when my train got cancelled due to lack of sand in the sandboxes.

Stonegate! No more needs to be said .....

 

[317 forever]

458501 Out of service - fire damaged
458502 In service
458503 In service
458504 In service
458505 In service 21/04/15
458506 Doncaster 13/10/15
458508 In service 02/11/15
458509 In service 29/08/15
458510 In service 28/04/15
458511 In service 04/05/15
458812 Wimbledon testing 05/11/15
458513 Doncaster 10/09/15
458514 Doncaster 30/09/15
458515 Wimbledon testing 30/09/15
458017 Doncaster 22/10/15
458518 In service 20/07/15
458019 In service 14/09/15
458520 In service
458522 In service 02/11/15
458523 Wimbledon testing 02/11/15
458524 In service 26/05/15
458525 In service 09/06/15
458526 In service 29/08/15
458527 In service 20/07/15
458528 Doncaster 02/11/15
458529 In service 28/09/15
458530 In service
458531 In service
458532 In service
458533 In service
458534 In service
458535 In service
458536 In service

In summary:

3 458s remaining (458007, 458016, 458021)
1 458/5 in repair
3 458/5s in testing
5 458/5s in conversion
24 458/5s in service

They are now making solid progress for 2/3 of them to be in service. I missed out on one at Clapham Junction in May and Feltham in July, but shall try one out next year.

 

[jonf45]

Hi
Does anyone know if there are any 458/0s left in traffic? If so, are they likely to have any turns this week? I saw an unrefurbished unit in Doncaster wabtec on sat but couldn't see the number!
Jon

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Hi
Does anyone know if there are any 458/0s left in traffic? If so, are they likely to have any turns this week?

This weekend was the official final use of them, but there are plenty of rumours floating around that they might appear at least once in the next few days. Time will tell.

 

[jonf45]

This weekend was the official final use of them, but there are plenty of rumours floating around that they might appear at least once in the next few days. Time will tell.

Thanks for that Peter, wish id managed to get down during the summer!

 

[Siemens Staines]

This weekend was the official final use of them

It would certainly seem to be the end of booked 458/0 work, the 0950 Waterloo - Reading was 2*450 this morning

I assume that this is because the remaining 458/0 have reached their mileage limits and/or are being prepared for a move to Doncaster? It is not because there are sufficient serviceable 458/5 to allow 450 to be released as evidenced by today's short forming 458/5 diagrams;

11:37 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 13:02 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

11:51 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 12:49 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

 

[Juniper Driver]

458523 was powered up and in the siding to the left of the top yard and shed as was 458016.Last night.

 

[RobShipway]

I was hoping that there maybe a 458/0 being run this Saturday morning on the 6:20am from London Waterloo, but I presume that is going to be class 450's.

 

[jonf45]

Thank you guys, am gonna take a wander down tomorrow and see if I can get a few shots if they're still at Wimbledon, fingers crossed!

 

[TEW]

Some 458/5 diagram changes coming up in December-February, as the full fleet becomes available.
The new 1935 London Waterloo-Reading will be formed of a 5-car 458.
Most Weekend services via Hounslow will be 5-458 instead of 4-455.
Shepperton gets two 10-458 workings; 0700 Shepperton-London Waterloo and 1843 London Waterloo-Shepperton, both via Richmond.
Woking sees a Weekday morning peak 10-458; 0641 Woking-London Waterloo. Unfortunately this is a reduction from the current 12-450 formation.
Alton has some 10-458 workings in the evening, 2153 London Waterloo-Alton, 2316 Alton-Woking and 0040 Woking-Alton are all formed of 10-car 458.

 

[HeelBurton]

Some 458/5 diagram changes coming up in December-February, as the full fleet becomes available.

The new 1935 London Waterloo-Reading will be formed of a 5-car 458.

Most Weekend services via Hounslow will be 5-458 instead of 4-455.

Shepperton gets two 10-458 workings; 0700 Shepperton-London Waterloo and 1843 London Waterloo-Shepperton, both via Richmond.

Woking sees a Weekday morning peak 10-458; 0641 Woking-London Waterloo. Unfortunately this is a reduction from the current 12-450 formation.

Alton has some 10-458 workings in the evening, 2153 London Waterloo-Alton, 2316 Alton-Woking and 0040 Woking-Alton are all formed of 10-car 458.

2C99 is the extra reading service. Calls Vauxhall and Ashford fast from Wokingham to Reading.
With a 5 car it's going to be a busy one....

 

[swt_passenger]

Some 458/5 diagram changes coming up in December-February, as the full fleet becomes available.

Do you think it is generally expected that February will see the final stock changes and strengthening of the various mainline services, and replacement of DMU with EMU, as discussed earlier in the thread?

 

[infobleep]

Some 458/5 diagram changes coming up in December-February, as the full fleet becomes available.
The new 1935 London Waterloo-Reading will be formed of a 5-car 458.
Most Weekend services via Hounslow will be 5-458 instead of 4-455.
Shepperton gets two 10-458 workings; 0700 Shepperton-London Waterloo and 1843 London Waterloo-Shepperton, both via Richmond.
Woking sees a Weekday morning peak 10-458; 0641 Woking-London Waterloo. Unfortunately this is a reduction from the current 12-450 formation.
Alton has some 10-458 workings in the evening, 2153 London Waterloo-Alton, 2316 Alton-Woking and 0040 Woking-Alton are all formed of 10-car 458.

Is the 21.53 Alton service service busy?

 

[465fan]

Is the 21.53 Alton service service busy?

Whether it is or isn't it appears to be nothing more than a balancing move to get the set down for the morning peak Woking to Waterloo Semi-Fast...

 

[TEW]

Do you think it is generally expected that February will see the final stock changes and strengthening of the various mainline services, and replacement of DMU with EMU, as discussed earlier in the thread?

February does seem to be the expected date for all the strengthening to be complete.

 

[HeelBurton]

The Alton services, the peak Woking to Waterloo service, and the extra Reading obviously will have first class installed? Well technically the ex- SWT units still have their blue seats. But I can see a lot of unhappy passengers, especially the powerful Alton passenger group.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks like the 458/5 fleet is three sets short today;

07:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 08:42 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
08:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 10:12 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
10:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 11:58 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
12:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 13:32 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :11/11/2015 04:52

07:28 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 08:25 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
08:51 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 09:51 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
09:58 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 10:55 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
11:21 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 12:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
12:28 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 13:25 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
13:51 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 14:49 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :11/11/2015 04:54

07:58 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 08:55 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
09:21 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 10:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
10:28 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 11:25 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
11:51 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 12:49 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :11/11/2015 04:51

 

[JonathanH]

The Alton services, the peak Woking to Waterloo service, and the extra Reading obviously will have first class installed? Well technically the ex- SWT units still have their blue seats. But I can see a lot of unhappy passengers, especially the powerful Alton passenger group.

Given there are still a few to be converted and I guess that the internal doors to close off first class are being stored somewhere couldn't they change the conversion specification to leave the first class seats segregated on a few units.

Obviously this would be difficult from a diagramming point of view but how long before 707s are in service and first class is restored on the 458/5s anyway?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The Alton services, the peak Woking to Waterloo service, and the extra Reading obviously will have first class installed? Well technically the ex- SWT units still have their blue seats. But I can see a lot of unhappy passengers, especially the powerful Alton passenger group.

No. Not necessarily, they after all just an outer suburban branch line, not a mainline and they are in essence just an extension of a stopping service from London.

And user groups are only powerful if you're stupid enough to let them get that way, you can ignore them should you wish, AFAIK they don't have any legal powers to force a company into anything.

I know that putting these on an Alton service means that we can't work them as we're no longer trained on 458s, so it'll have to be Woking, Wimbledon or Farnham that do those or they'll get cancelled.

 

[TEW]

The Alton services, the peak Woking to Waterloo service, and the extra Reading obviously will have first class installed? Well technically the ex- SWT units still have their blue seats. But I can see a lot of unhappy passengers, especially the powerful Alton passenger group.

All those services will be advertised as conveying Standard Class accommodation only.

 

[jopsuk]

As they're all late-evening I doubt the Alton mob will be too worried.

 

[HeelBurton]

No. Not necessarily, they after all just an outer suburban branch line, not a mainline and they are in essence just an extension of a stopping service from London.

And user groups are only powerful if you're stupid enough to let them get that way, you can ignore them should you wish, AFAIK they don't have any legal powers to force a company into anything.

I know that putting these on an Alton service means that we can't work them as we're no longer trained on 458s, so it'll have to be Woking, Wimbledon or Farnham that do those or they'll get cancelled.

Or Waterloo, I believe this was one of the phases to the contingency route learning plan that should have started years ago and is still in the pipeline. We've not been given our roads yet, however some depots have.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

TBQH the number of passengers noted on most services down to Alton you could quite easily fit on a 4 car or dare I say it and float the idea a 2 car 456, especially after 21:00.

It's quite farcical running a 8 or 12 car down there, they'd be much better off splitting the train at Farnham and sending just the front 4 cars down and putting the rest into the depot for servicing early, it would allow them to be CET'd and cleaned earlier and a greater chance to have any faults rectified and it would save on power and running costs too.

I must apologise for the sudden outburst of common sense.

 

[infobleep]

TBQH the number of passengers noted on most services down to Alton you could quite easily fit on a 4 car or dare I say it and float the idea a 2 car 456, especially after 21:00.

It's quite farcical running a 8 or 12 car down there, they'd be much better off splitting the train at Farnham and sending just the front 4 cars down and putting the rest into the depot for servicing early, it would allow them to be CET'd and cleaned earlier and a greater chance to have any faults rectified and it would save on power and running costs too.

I must apologise for the sudden outburst of common sense.

How dare you suggest that. Far better to have less carriages on a Portsmouth line train than Alton, given Portsmouth is a mainline route.

Anyway it will all change one the additional rolling stock is brought into use.