Class 458/5

[Goldfish62]

It conked out earlier today, no idea what was wrong with it though. There were also reports of the ASDO system at Clapham Junction having issues but surely the two can't be related?

But maybe they are. CJ has full length platforms so if the ADSO was preventing all doors from opening there'd clearly be a problem.

Oh well, let's just hope it's a teething problem and normal service is resumed on Monday.

 

[arty762]

when i came on duty at Wimbledon Depot this evening the ten car 458 was on 8 road , with the Alstom guys fussing over it , as of 01.30hrs it is still here and the contractors still working on it.

 

[455driver]

when i came on duty at Wimbledon Depot this evening the ten car 458 was on 8 road , with the Alstom guys fussing over it , as of 01.30hrs it is still here and the contractors still working on it.

They will be for quite some time!

Did they have any big reels of wire on them?

 

[387star]

SWT sure have one of the best liveries in the country....

 

[arty762]

They will be for quite some time!

Did they have any big reels of wire on them?

no the contractors seem to have come from Alstrom with bugger all , we appear to be supplying most of the parts and tools that are needed,amazes me that they are trying to fix them using our gear, they can't even deliver them complete, 533 came in with half the grab poles missing.Whole thing is a shambles.

 

[Goldfish62]

With this apparent shambles I cannot see any way in which 33 more trains are going to be delivered in the next 12 months, let alone put into service. That's almost 3 units per month. Current rate is 3 units in 6 months and counting....

 

[Monty]

I'm more surprised that people are surprised about the delays! Too many people (the ROSCO and manufacturer included) just assumed that you could chop and change an existing unit and simply insert a spare trailer into another unit type, install an ASDO system and expect it to work first time. These are not the days of the slammers when most units used standard parts and control equipment and units could be chopped and changed then put into passenger use within a few days. It's ironic most of the classes problems need a bloke with a laptop and a soldering iron rather than an engineer with a spanner.

 

[Class377/5]

I'm more surprised that people are surprised about the delays! Too many people (the ROSCO and manufacturer included) just assumed that you could chop and change an existing unit and simply insert a spare trailer into another unit type, install an ASDO system and expect it to work first time. These are not the days of the slammers when most units used standard parts and control equipment and units could be chopped and changed then put into passenger use within a few days. It's ironic most of the classes problems need a bloke with a laptop and a soldering iron rather than an engineer with a spanner.

Indeed. Look at the issues Bombardier had trying to reconfigure a 377 to a 5 car using a unit from the same build. Didn't work then (not unexpected) where as this is far more work.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm more surprised that people are surprised about the delays! Too many people (the ROSCO and manufacturer included) just assumed that you could chop and change an existing unit and simply insert a spare trailer into another unit type, install an ASDO system and expect it to work first time. These are not the days of the slammers when most units used standard parts and control equipment and units could be chopped and changed then put into passenger use within a few days. It's ironic most of the classes problems need a bloke with a laptop and a soldering iron rather than an engineer with a spanner.

Well, Alstom and Wabtec clearly thought it could be done and if they did, why should the rest of us doubt it? I'm sure that if the DfT knew back then that there'd be all the delays and problems that rival bid for extra Class 450 coaches would have looked much more attractive.

 

[ExRes]

This situation really shows up one of the worst stupidities of the railway, surely the 458s and 460s are exactly the same unit, other than a silly nose on the 460 they were made from the same box of bits and should work together without all this farcical nonsense, in reality though it seems that chaos and fiasco are built into the design of anything railway oriented

Under NEX and EMT our 222s were shuffled more often than a pack of cards without more than the odd passing hiccup, mention trying to mix a 220 with a 222 though and you would've been placed in care instantly

 

[MCR247]

Even if you tried to change the length of 220s in the same way they have with the 222s would cause problems!

 

[southern442]

I was up north yesterday and whilst my train was in Doncaster I saw a couple of 460 coaches and some 458/0's being converted into 458/5's. The ex-458's windows had been completely removed and had blue sheets covering them. Does this mean that they will be refitted with 460-style windows?

 

[455driver]

What it means is that the body has rusted under the windows, what windows go back in is anyones guess.

 

[Goldfish62]

I was up north yesterday and whilst my train was in Doncaster I saw a couple of 460 coaches and some 458/0's being converted into 458/5's. The ex-458's windows had been completely removed and had blue sheets covering them. Does this mean that they will be refitted with 460-style windows?

The bonded ribbon glazing on the 460s is glued onto the outside of the vehicle and is not flush as bonded glazing usually is. This means the internal window frames are slightly different to those on the traditional metal-framed 458s. I can't see any mod being done, especially as I read that the 458/0 conversion is going to be bargain-basement with minimal physically done to the units expect playing around with grab rails and seat configurations, and sticking on a new gangway and couplers.

 

[arty762]

The bonded ribbon glazing on the 460s is glued onto the outside of the vehicle and is not flush as bonded glazing usually is. This means the internal window frames are slightly different to those on the traditional metal-framed 458s. I can't see any mod being done, especially as I read that the 458/0 conversion is going to be bargain-basement with minimal physically done to the units expect playing around with grab rails and seat configurations, and sticking on a new gangway and couplers.

The 458/0 will stay with original windows, which is why we are now stocking both types , intrestinly i was talking with a collegue who was actually involved with the design and build of the original family and he tells me the Junipers were originally desgined to be five car.

 

[randompixel]

The 458/5 is still running this morning although Coach C has been added to the list of ones that won't open at Feltham.

 

[JonathanH]

Indeed. Look at the issues Bombardier had trying to reconfigure a 377 to a 5 car using a unit from the same build. Didn't work then (not unexpected) where as this is far more work.

They seemed to manage fine when 377318 became 377165 for a short while in 2009 with the insertion of carriage 77162 (68418-74818-77162-68218).

 

[Class377/5]

They seemed to manage fine when 377318 became 377165 for a short while in 2009 with the insertion of carriage 77162 (68418-74818-77162-68218).

That's easy to do as you just get the train to use the 4 car 377/1 software, not a upgraded 377/3 software to support an extra carriage.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 458/5 is still running this morning although Coach C has been added to the list of ones that won't open at Feltham.

Oh dear - Coach B just about gets on the platform as it is.

 

[scottie]

458535 at doncaster with its barrier vehicles ready to leave. On rtt scheduled to leave just after 8pm on the 19th.

 

[YorkshireBear]

How far behind schedule are we now? And is this going to have any impact on planned timetable changes/new services etc?

 

[Goldfish62]

How far behind schedule are we now? And is this going to have any impact on planned timetable changes/new services etc?

About 10-11 months. Yes - the additional peak hours Reading line trains which should have been introduced this May have been postponed to at least May 2015.

 

[hassaanhc]

According to a friend the it has managed to escape onto the 2S64 1937 Weybridge to London Waterloo via Hounslow

 

[Goldfish62]

According to a friend the it has managed to escape onto the 2S64 1937 Weybridge to London Waterloo via Hounslow

If true, that's surprising, considering the problems with ASDO and the number of short platforms on that line.

 

[Monty]

At 1937 the unit(s) should have been at Windsor ER waiting to form the 1953 to Waterloo.

 

[Shrub Hill]

It has been on Waterloo - windsors all night as Monty has said.

 

[hassaanhc]

Thanks . He said he saw it around Wandsworth Town at 2038 or so. Looking at RTT it turns out that both the 1953 Windsor-Waterloo and the 1937 Weybridge-Waterloo passed at almost the same time - he was on a train in the opposite direction, the 2022 Waterloo-Weybridge. See http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...03/18/2033-2040?stp=WVS&show=all&order=actual

 

[bb21]

Yes, and 3 458s have already gone to Doncaster which would leave SWT a bit short to cover all the diagrams.

Sorry if I missed anything as I haven't really been keeping up with the progress recently. Which is the third one after 8002 and 8001?

 

[Monty]

8003 is the third unit that has gone up to Doncaster as far as I am aware.

 

[Goldfish62]

So it looks like 458535 has been delivered:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K54681/2014/03/19/advanced