Class 458/5

[4-6-2 Coast]

I was on the 1727 from Windsor, and I have to say I'm generally very impressed. Nice smooth, clean and quiet ride. I do slightly prefer the carpeted floors of the 450s but that is a minor thing.

I do notice two slightly different types of seats - in the "mini-compartments" at the extreme ends of each 5-car unit the seats still have folding armrests, and I was quite surprised to see tables! The rest of the train has space for armrests between the seats but doesn't actually have them. Given this extra spacing, and the way the grab bars stick out from the seats, the aisle width doesn't seem to be any greater than in a 3+2 configuration. I am glad to see plenty of facing seats and not too many airline-style.

The PIS was switched off for the entire trip, and the guard, who was clearly not a native English-speaker, was doing his best to make all the announcements. Once or twice he stated he could be found in the "middle of this 8-car train" so old habits die hard, I guess.

 

[user15681]

I was on the 1727 from Windsor, and I have to say I'm generally very impressed. Nice smooth, clean and quiet ride. I do slightly prefer the carpeted floors of the 450s but that is a minor thing.

I do notice two slightly different types of seats - in the "mini-compartments" at the extreme ends of each 5-car unit the seats still have folding armrests, and I was quite surprised to see tables! The rest of the train has space for armrests between the seats but doesn't actually have them. Given this extra spacing, and the way the grab bars stick out from the seats, the aisle width doesn't seem to be any greater than in a 3+2 configuration. I am glad to see plenty of facing seats and not too many airline-style.

The PIS was switched off for the entire trip, and the guard, who was clearly not a native English-speaker, was doing his best to make all the announcements. Once or twice he stated he could be found in the "middle of this 8-car train" so old habits die hard, I guess.

The "mini-compartments" are where first class used to be IIRC, hence the arm rests and tables.

That gentleman was the guard on the 1328 from Waterloo. I can't fault him, even if the announcement each time felt like a few minutes long what with all the "You need to be in coach W-X for station A and B, you need to be in coach W-Y for station C and D. Coach Z won't open for stations C or D, coach Y and Z won't open for stations A and B." Although that's nothing of his fault personally.

As for the 8-car mistake, I think he can be excused for that

 

[swt_passenger]

My guess is that somewhere in the information provided to journalists the figure 460 referred to the class of train from which the extra coaches have been obtained, and that someone turned that figure into the additional spaces being provided.

The BBC article seems to have had this line added since I first saw it:

South West Trains said increasing the service from eight to ten carriages would increase the capacity from 930 passengers to 1,390

I think the only way of interpreting that figure is that they are reporting the 'crush load' of the trains, not just the normally calculated seating and standing capacities - and we know the seating capacity is only around 500 per doubled unit.

For comparison LO's 378s only have a declared capacity of 133 per coach - 1330 per notional 10 car version.

Meanwhile SWT's PR only reports the numbers of carriages added:

South West Trains has today (Monday 10 March) started running the first ever 10-car regular passenger trains between Windsor and Waterloo. The first 10-car service left London Waterloo at 05:58 this morning and will return from Windsor at 07:23. It will now be used to operate 14 different train services between London Waterloo and Windsor every weekday, offering an extra 28 carriages per day on this route.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/First 10-car trains enter passenger service.aspx

 

[southern442]

Just an interior question, are all the seats at the same height? Because the 460 seats are laid back a bit for comfort, whilst the 458/0 seats are more upright.

 

[user15681]

Just an interior question, are all the seats at the same height? Because the 460 seats are laid back a bit for comfort, whilst the 458/0 seats are more upright.

The seats are fairly comfortable, although I was only on them for 20 minutes or so. They're all, as far as I can see, the same height and same angle.

 

[southern442]

The seats are fairly comfortable, although I was only on them for 20 minutes or so. They're all, as far as I can see, the same height and same angle.

But when the 458/460 hybrids enter service, will the extra carriage's seats be more laid back?

 

[Class172]

The seats are fairly comfortable, although I was only on them for 20 minutes or so. They're all, as far as I can see, the same height and same angle.

I would agree, from my 30 ride I've had in the past, they seemed relatively comfortable, of a similar style to the 172 seats which I am more used to.

 

[hassaanhc]

I think the seats are far more comfortable than the 450/455 they will be swapped with, I have had a couple of 30 minute journeys on the existing 458/0's (Hounslow-Waterloo "fast") and the comfort of the seats stood out for me. I saw the "new" one go past on the adjacent platform at Vauxhall.

 

[Goldfish62]

But when the 458/460 hybrids enter service, will the extra carriage's seats be more laid back?

The seats have tipped forward a bit so they are identical to those on the 458/0s,or certainly feel like it.

What's with the gate which shuts off the extension on the up platform at Richmond and is only opened for this 10 car train, then closed after its departure?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am glad to see plenty of facing seats and not too many airline-style.

That's the one niggle I've got about the interior. Personally I much prefer airline seats with the folding tables, privacy and better legroom on my daily commutes. Judging by the way the airline seats tend to fill first on existing 458s I'm not alone. However, nice trains anyway and certainly seem to be better than the forthcoming Class 700s!

 

[387star]

Swear saw one head via Netley just now

 

[SansPareil]

Looks like the latest delivery was cancelled overnight;

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K48195/2014/03/11/advanced

Have to say I was surprised at the number of facing seats, I would have thought cramming in a few more airline seats would have been the priority. The ex first class area is very comfy. I think those on the Portsmouth direct who moan about 'the blue trains' would be quite jealous if they find out what the 458/5 is like inside. It certainly feels like a train designed for longer journeys than to Windsor, I wonder if the re-gearing to 75 mph might prove a mistake in the medium to long term.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Yes I much prefer the airline seating for commuting, better leg room and the person opposite can not place their bag on your feet or take up all the room with their bag before you sit down. I also find the tray useful.

The seats have tipped forward a bit so they are identical to those on the 458/0s,or certainly feel like it.

What's with the gate which shuts off the extension on the up platform at Richmond and is only opened for this 10 car train, then closed after its departure?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That's the one niggle I've got about the interior. Personally I much prefer airline seats with the folding tables, privacy and better legroom on my daily commutes. Judging by the way the airline seats tend to fill first on existing 458s I'm not alone. However, nice trains anyway and certainly seem to be better than the forthcoming Class 700s!

 

[JonathanH]

Looks like the latest delivery was cancelled overnight;

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K48195/2014/03/11/advanced

Have to say I was surprised at the number of facing seats, I would have thought cramming in a few more airline seats would have been the priority. The ex first class area is very comfy. I think those on the Portsmouth direct who moan about 'the blue trains' would be quite jealous if they find out what the 458/5 is like inside. It certainly feels like a train designed for longer journeys than to Windsor, I wonder if the re-gearing to 75 mph might prove a mistake in the medium to long term.

Although some passengers get to travel in greater comfort than before thanks to gaps between the seats, I think anyone boarding a 458/5 in Portsmouth going to London would soon get annoyed by the number of handrails designed to allow for a large number of standing passengers. They are fine for a metro train but a bit obstructive in a longer distance train.

I had a ride on Monday evening. It is a shame that the small toilets haven't been restored to "as new" condition as the rest of the train looks to have been made very smart. It will be interesting to see how long the floor holds its current cleanliness given the problems with the 458/0 fleet.

 

[Goldfish62]

I had a ride on Monday evening. It is a shame that the small toilets haven't been restored to "as new" condition as the rest of the train looks to have been made very smart. It will be interesting to see how long the floor holds its current cleanliness given the problems with the 458/0 fleet.

Yes, on my second journey today on this generally very nice train I was surprised to see that the standard toilet was completely untouched, even down to the worn flush button and turquoise handrail. I won't be impressed if the disgusting toilet in the 458/0s is similarly left untouched! The universal toilet is now the same as the new ones installed in the 458/0s a few years ago, but which haven't worn at all well. I also noticed that there is no baby-changing table - I thought this was mandatory in modern stock.

The flooring has an unusual rough finish, more often found in buses, where greater grip is important. I do hope it can be kept cleaner than the 458/0s.

The ride quality is very smooth and nothing like the crash-bang-rattle-groan-squeak of 458/0s. Are the 460 bogies to a different spec or is it just that they've been overhauled?

Oh, and the PIS still wasn't working - is there a problem with it?

 

[hassaanhc]

Just seen someone on Twitter duty saying twice that they're on the Reading route and and that they stop at Putney on Sundays only, causing a bit of confusion :roll:. They have completely separate stock allocations to each other as well, it is Windsor and Hounslow that share stock. Doesn't help that their website groups Reading and Windsor under the same service status message.

 

[Lockwood]

I think anyone boarding a 458/5 in Portsmouth going to London

I've never seen a 458 beyond Guildford, and I don't think I've ever seen one there outside of the sidings.
Are they even cleared for Portsmouth?

 

[randompixel]

Yes, on my second journey today on this generally very nice train I was surprised to see that the standard toilet was completely untouched, even down to the worn flush button and turquoise handrail. I won't be impressed if the disgusting toilet in the 458/0s is similarly left untouched! The universal toilet is now the same as the new ones installed in the 458/0s a few years ago, but which haven't worn at all well. I also noticed that there is no baby-changing table - I thought this was mandatory in modern stock.

The flooring has an unusual rough finish, more often found in buses, where greater grip is important. I do hope it can be kept cleaner than the 458/0s.

The ride quality is very smooth and nothing like the crash-bang-rattle-groan-squeak of 458/0s. Are the 460 bogies to a different spec or is it just that they've been overhauled?

Oh, and the PIS still wasn't working - is there a problem with it?

The PIS is working today. Female voice. The guard intercom seems to cut off the first second of them talking.

Coach A has a slight bouncy groan/creak on it now. (Maybe the Desiro air con noise masks their squeaks and groans!)

 

[samuelmorris]

To be fair, the 360s had terrible squeaking from the suspension from new - not sure if the 450s ever had this as it's only recently I've used them with any regularity but I don't hear this any more, so presumably something was changed.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've never seen a 458 beyond Guildford, and I don't think I've ever seen one there outside of the sidings.
Are they even cleared for Portsmouth?

The post is only proposing they be used. Clearance is only undertaken when first required, lack of current availability doesn't mean they can't be cleared in future.

 

[Lockwood]

Ah.
I inferred that there was a desire to use them there.
I'd not digested the quoted bit, which made what I was going to say about hating "The blue trains" entirely moot.

 

[TEW]

I've never seen a 458 beyond Guildford, and I don't think I've ever seen one there outside of the sidings.
Are they even cleared for Portsmouth?

Until last week 2 458s were used on Guildford-Ascot services, which is the only place you'd normally see them in service at Guildford. I believe the 2 diagrams on Guildford-Ascot are now being operated by 450s instead though.

 

[swt_passenger]

Until last week 2 458s were used on Guildford-Ascot services, which is the only place you'd normally see them in service at Guildford. I believe the 2 diagrams on Guildford-Ascot are now being operated by 450s instead though.

Presumably with hindsight that was a fairly predictable outcome, as the two 458/5s running on the Windsor circuit must have released two 450s?

 

[455driver]

I want my 458s back!

 

[TEW]

Presumably with hindsight that was a fairly predictable outcome, as the two 458/5s running on the Windsor circuit must have released two 450s?

Yes, and 3 458s have already gone to Doncaster which would leave SWT a bit short to cover all the diagrams.

 

[Goldfish62]

Presumably with hindsight that was a fairly predictable outcome, as the two 458/5s running on the Windsor circuit must have released two 450s?

Yes - I would have been surprised if this hadn't happened. For every 458/5 into service this displaces a 450 onto a previous 458/0 diagram.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be fair, the 360s had terrible squeaking from the suspension from new - not sure if the 450s ever had this as it's only recently I've used them with any regularity but I don't hear this any more, so presumably something was changed.

The 450s were also terrible initially, but fairly quickly dealt with.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Yes, on my second journey today on this generally very nice train I was surprised to see that the standard toilet was completely untouched, even down to the worn flush button and turquoise handrail. I won't be impressed if the disgusting toilet in the 458/0s is similarly left untouched! The universal toilet is now the same as the new ones installed in the 458/0s a few years ago, but which haven't worn at all well. I also noticed that there is no baby-changing table - I thought this was mandatory in modern stock.

The flooring has an unusual rough finish, more often found in buses, where greater grip is important. I do hope it can be kept cleaner than the 458/0s.

The ride quality is very smooth and nothing like the crash-bang-rattle-groan-squeak of 458/0s. Are the 460 bogies to a different spec or is it just that they've been overhauled?

Oh, and the PIS still wasn't working - is there a problem with it?

Baby change tables have been a constant thorn in the side. The travelling public using them to allegedly make babies rather than changing them. The new design is strengthened but the bespoke nature of the building means the kit doesn't fit every time.

AFAIK only one 460 was due a bogie overhaul. They all however have had the yaw dampers removed as they are not required for 75mph running. The core of 534 being this 460.

 

[southern442]

Baby change tables have been a constant thorn in the side. The travelling public using them to allegedly make babies rather than changing them. The new design is strengthened but the bespoke nature of the building means the kit doesn't fit every time.

AFAIK only one 460 was due a bogie overhaul. They all however have had the yaw dampers removed as they are not required for 75mph running. The core of 534 being this 460.

What 460 is 534?

 

[swt_passenger]

What 460 is 534?

534 has cars from two original 460s, 04 and 08:
67914 - 74414 - 74444 - 74454 - 67918

531 has cars from four different 460s, 02,03,06 and 08:
67913 - 74418 - 74446 - 74458 - 67912

 

[Goldfish62]

I went to catch the 2058 from Waterloo, but sadly it was a 4 car 455.

When did the 458/5 expire and what was the problem?

 

[hassaanhc]

I went to catch the 2058 from Waterloo, but sadly it was a 4 car 455.

When did the 458/5 expire and what was the problem?

It conked out earlier today, no idea what was wrong with it though. There were also reports of the ASDO system at Clapham Junction having issues but surely the two can't be related?