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Class 458/5

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hassaanhc

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If that's the diagram that includes the 23.09 Waterloo - Dorking and ecs back to Wimbledon, it was certainly a pair of 450s last night. In the past month or so I've only seen it running as 455s once and that was on a heavily disrupted day.
I don't get how I've missed it really :lol: I was there at Waterloo for the 1923 to Surbiton as recently as Tuesday 17 February, so should have seen the 1924 across in P1 :/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As of this week there seem to be 10 diagrammed for service. However, there still appear to be only 4 Reading diagrams which have been replaced by 450s (in addition to the two that were always there), the same position as for the past few months. By my calculations this leaves 18 458/0s required for service out of the 18 still at Wimbledon!

Little wonder then that there are daily short-forms on Reading services. I wonder why more 450s have not gone over. What are the units working on that have been replaced by 458/5 diagrams?

Assuming there weren't others there previously as well, it used to be just a single return journey for 450+450 to Reading in that diagram which visited loads of places:
Code:
<previous services>
1W61 1005 London Waterloo to Weymouth due 1300 (full 8 to Weymouth as well)
1W62 1320 Weymouth to London Waterloo due 1620
2C91 1635 London Waterloo to Reading via Richmond due 1756
2C60 1812 Reading to London Waterloo via Richmond due 1934
2S63 1952 London Waterloo to Weybridge via Brentford due 2107
2S72 2133 Weybridge to London Waterloo via Brentford due 2257
2P77 2315 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford due 0054

Because of the inter-peak stabler 458/5, a set of 450s start to/from Reading, switch to Hounslow/Weybridge when the 458/5 has a nap in the afternoon (:lol:) and back to/from Reading for the rest of the evening:
Code:
<previous services to/from Reading>
2C92 0925 Reading to London Waterloo via Richmond due 1053
2V25 1107 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 1232
<more services via Hounslow>
2S50 1603 Weybridge to London Waterloo via Brentford due 1726
2C93 1735 London Waterloo to Reading via Richmond due 1855
<remaining services to/from Reading>

And this is also a pair of 450s, not sure how it links in with everything else:
2C12 0612 Reading to London Waterloo via Richmond due 0735

Edit: Determined to be the same as above.
 
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R

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Appears 458 training at clj is cancelled for the next couple of weeks. Probably due to increased diagrams with unit oos due to the fire damage.

I heard it might move to WD as there is a pair of units that come back to WD between peaks.
 
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hassaanhc

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Two short today

SWT Journeycheck said:
12:37 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 14:02
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

13:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 14:32
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5. Toilets are not available.
This is due to a train fault.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
458535 descending the spur from East Putney to Wandsworth Town at 1415! :o :o
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Turns out 458535 was going ECS to Waterloo.
458531 on the 2S38 1303 Weybridge to London Waterloo (sharing platform 16 with 458535 on arrival)
5915 instead of 458/5 on the 2V33 1307 London Waterloo to London Waterloo (no prizes for guessing what I went on :D arrived 3 early at Waterloo thanks to the padding, while the train above was 3 late so both arrived at the same time :D)
458534+458502 on the 2U37 1328 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
458520+458536 on the 2R35 1345 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
458533 on the 2R37 1415 London Waterloo to London Waterloo

Some 5-7 minute delays due to only the Down Slow (outer) line being in use after Wandsworth Town until Barnes (according to display at Putney, P3 the inner line platform was closed)
 
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hassaanhc

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Still two units short. The Windsor diagram is using a pair of 450s, those nicked from the Suburban lines which in turn is a pair of 455s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oops. 458502 is alone on the 2107 Waterloo to Hounslow, and the doors on the "new" coach 74421 are not released.

EDIT: They did start working at some point, probably at Vauxhall where there was a longer than booked stop, but enough to be absorbed by the 2 mins booked at Barnes to wait for the junction to clear. And I believe it is meant to be a single unit after all :lol:.
 
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Bigfoot

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I think another conversion arrived tonight. Not 100% sure. Someone will confirm no doubt!
 

Juniper Driver

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503 was at the back of Wimbledon yard last night.Not sure if another unit was there with it.Driver training has been suspended due to shortage of stock,I've been told.
 

Goldfish62

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503 was at the back of Wimbledon yard last night.Not sure if another unit was there with it.Driver training has been suspended due to shortage of stock,I've been told.

So what's causing the stock shortage? I know there's a distinct lack of 458/0s for Reading services and the 458/5s don't work, but the 456s haven't yet been formed into 10 car sets with 2x455 (this was going to happen in January according to SWT) so wouldn't that balance things out?:roll:
 

Juniper Driver

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So what's causing the stock shortage? I know there's a distinct lack of 458/0s for Reading services and the 458/5s don't work, but the 456s haven't yet been formed into 10 car sets with 2x455 (this was going to happen in January according to SWT) so wouldn't that balance things out?:roll:

I reckon they haven't enough trains.

EG...my workmate had his bike nicked...no spare so had to catch the train to work for quite a while.
Me...One morning last year I had a puncture on leaving for work,whipped up the stairs and got the spare bike.Works fine.Although I now have three spares so any sort of failure apart from myself breaking down is virtually covered.Typical of me though I must buy spares of everything.

I reckon SWT must work on a very tight threshold (like my workmate) as in the rush hour there are very few if any trains in the yards.

So what happens when the Desiro Cities come along?
 
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TEW

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The Suburban 450 diagram appears to have ended as of this week. It's been an 8-car 455 every day so far at least. Been reported elsewhere that an additional 455+456+456 formation is out, so presumably there have now been enough 455s freed up to cover the 450 diagram. That means an 8-car 450 is now available for use elsewhere, possibly on the Reading line to cover the lack of 458/0s.
 

hassaanhc

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The Suburban 450 diagram appears to have ended as of this week. It's been an 8-car 455 every day so far at least. Been reported elsewhere that an additional 455+456+456 formation is out, so presumably there have now been enough 455s freed up to cover the 450 diagram. That means an 8-car 450 is now available for use elsewhere, possibly on the Reading line to cover the lack of 458/0s.

Actually appears to have been covering for 458/5 throwing a strop, the Windsor diagram is 8 coaches instead of 10 (while Reading again has a 4 v 8). Meanwhile, the 1033 Weybridge to Waterloo (and subsequent services) is 4 v 10! At least 4 units not in use, which is 40% of those certified for service.
 

Juniper Driver

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Has anyone seen 503/504 or 530 in service?

Got a trip on these today...altered diagram,slowhounds rounder instead of Kingston.
 

Domh245

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Anyone know what is happening to 501? It is still sat in the sidings by Wimbledon Park LUL station, with some barrier wagons in the next road along. Is there some sort of disagreement as to who has to pay for the repairs?
 

Goldfish62

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Actually appears to have been covering for 458/5 throwing a strop, the Windsor diagram is 8 coaches instead of 10 (while Reading again has a 4 v 8). Meanwhile, the 1033 Weybridge to Waterloo (and subsequent services) is 4 v 10! At least 4 units not in use, which is 40% of those certified for service.

No less than three short forms on Reading services this evening - 1750, 1820 and 1920 from Waterloo.:(
 

Juniper Driver

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I had a sick 458534 which had a traction package isolated which made it's acceleration about as fast as a cruise liner.I know it doesn't compensate for losing a traction package unlike the 0's.Still managed to run on time.
 

SpacePhoenix

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How many traction motors do 458s have per unit (afaik Desiros have traction motors on all axles - or at least 1 per bogie - on the driving trailers)
 

Juniper Driver

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How many traction motors do 458s have per unit (afaik Desiros have traction motors on all axles - or at least 1 per bogie - on the driving trailers)

Three traction packages.Leading coaches have one and the MOS.I also heard yesterday they've been uprated.(Two per coach)

Class 458/5 from augmented 458/0 = DMOS - TOS- TOSL(W) - MOSL - DMOS (30 units 458501 - 458530)
Class 458/5 from rebuilt 460 ------>= DMOS - TOSL - TOSL(W) - MOS - DMOS (6 units 458531 - 458536)

^^^^Wow never noticed that,must pay more attention.I did think something wasn't right but never really put my finger on it.
 
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swt_passenger

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... (afaik Desiros have traction motors on all axles - or at least 1 per bogie - on the driving trailers)

Your terminology is a bit confused here. The two end cars of a 450 are the traction vehicles so are designated DMOS (A) and (B), where the initials stand for Driving Motor Open Standard. The other two cars are the trailers, a TSO and TCO (Trailer Standard Open and Trailer Composite Open).

A trailer vehicle does not have traction by definition. So although the term DT etc applies to certain units, it doesn't apply to Desiros.
 
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TEW

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Another diagram update. Two new diagrams have now started and there have been a couple of small changes to the other diagrams to accommodate these. There is now a pair of 458/5s booked to stable overnight at Woking.

Diagrams 1&2 (10-Car)
5U07 0502 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 0539
2U07 0558 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 0652
2U14 0723 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 0821
2U17 0828 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 0922
2U24 0953 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1049
2U27 1058 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1152
2U34 1223 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1319
2U37 1328 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1422
2U44 1453 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1549
2U47 1558 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1652
2U54 1723 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1819
2U57 1828 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1923
2U64 1953 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 2049
2U67 2058 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 2152
2U74 2223 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 2323
5Y92 2330 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 0012

Diagrams 3 (5-Car)
5R05 0545 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 0602 (with Diagram 4)
2R05 0615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0742 (with Diagram 4)
2S15 0752 London Waterloo Weybridge 0909 (with Diagram 4)
2S24 0933 Weybridge London Waterloo 1056 (with Diagram 4)
5Y87 1104 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 1151 (with Diagram 4)
5V51 1704 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 1727 (with Diagram 4)
2V51 1737 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1902 (with Diagram 4)
2R57 1915 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2041 (with Diagram 4)
2S67 2052 London Waterloo Weybridge 2207
2S76 2233 Weybridge London Waterloo 2356
5Y48 0012 London Waterloo Clapham Yard Sidings 0042

Diagrams 4 (5-Car)
5R05 0545 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 0602 (with Diagram 3)
2R05 0615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0742 (with Diagram 3)
2S15 0752 London Waterloo Weybridge 0909 (with Diagram 3)
2S24 0933 Weybridge London Waterloo 1056 (with Diagram 3)
5Y87 1104 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 1151 (with Diagram 3)
5V51 1704 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 1727 (with Diagram 3)
2V51 1737 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1902 (with Diagram 3)
2R57 1915 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2041 (with Diagram 3)
2V65 2107 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2232
1S75 2252 London Waterloo Woking (with Diagram 7)

Diagram 5 (5-Car)
5S03 0454 Clapham Yard Sidings Staines 0534 (with Diagram 6)
2S03 0544 Staines Weybridge 0607 (with Diagram 6)
2S12 0632 Weybridge London Waterloo 0757 (with Diagram 6)
2V13 0810 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0934 (with Diagram 6)
2R19 0945 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1111
2S29 1122 London Waterloo Weybridge 1237
2S38 1303 Weybridge London Waterloo 1426
2V39 1437 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1602
2R45 1615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1741 (with Diagram 6)
2S55 1752 London Waterloo Weybridge 1910 (with Diagram 6)
2S64 1937 Weybridge London Waterloo 2056 (with Diagram 6)
5Y91 2110 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 2151 (with Diagram 6)

Diagram 6 (5-Car)
5S03 0454 Clapham Yard Sidings Staines 0534 (with Diagram 5)
2S03 0544 Staines Weybridge 0607 (with Diagram 5)
2S12 0632 Weybridge London Waterloo 0756 (with Diagram 5)
2V13 0810 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0932 (with Diagram 5)
2S23 0952 London Waterloo Weybridge 1107
2S32 1133 Weybridge London Waterloo 1256
2V33 1307 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1432
2R45 1615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1741 (with Diagram 5)
2S55 1752 London Waterloo Weybridge 1910 (with Diagram 5)
2S64 1937 Weybridge London Waterloo 2056 (with Diagram 5)
5Y91 2110 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 2151 (with Diagram 5)

Diagram 7 (5-Car)
5V05 0612 Clapham Yard Sidings Hounslow 0646 (with Diagram 8)
2V05 0648 Hounslow London Waterloo 0734 (with Diagram 8)
2R11 0745 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0913 (with Diagram 8)
2S21 0922 London Waterloo Weybridge 1037 (with Diagram 8)
2S30 1103 Weybridge London Waterloo 1226 (with Diagram 8)
2V31 1237 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1402 (with Diagram 8)
2R39 1445 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1611
2S49 1622 London Waterloo Weybridge 1740
2S58 1807 Weybridge London Waterloo 1926
2V59 1937 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2102
2R65 2115 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2241
1S75 2252 London Waterloo Woking (with Diagram 4)

Diagram 8 (5-Car)
5V05 0612 Clapham Yard Sidings Hounslow 0646 (with Diagram 7)
2V05 0648 Hounslow London Waterloo 0734 (with Diagram 7)
2R11 0745 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0913 (with Diagram 7)
2S21 0922 London Waterloo Weybridge 1037 (with Diagram 7)
2S30 1103 Weybridge London Waterloo 1226 (with Diagram 7)
2V31 1237 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1402 (with Diagram 7)
2R37 1415 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1541
2S47 1552 London Waterloo Weybridge 1708
2S56 1737 Weybridge London Waterloo 1856
2V57 1907 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2032
2R63 2045 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2211
2S73 2222 London Waterloo Weybridge 2337
5S73 2340 Weybridge Clapham Yard Sidings 0013

Diagrams 9&10 (10-Car)
1S08 0527 Woking London Waterloo 0656
2R09 0715 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0842
2S19 0852 London Waterloo Weybridge 1007
2S28 1033 Weybridge London Waterloo 1156
2V29 1207 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1332
2R35 1345 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1511
2S45 1522 London Waterloo Weybridge 1637
2S54 1707 Weybridge London Waterloo 1826
2V55 1837 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2002
2R61 2015 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2141
2S71 2152 London Waterloo Weybridge 2307
2S80 2333 Weybridge Staines 0002
5S80 0005 Staines Clapham Yard Sidings 0036
 

JonathanH

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Another diagram update. Two new diagrams have now started and there have been a couple of small changes to the other diagrams to accommodate these. There is now a pair of 458/5s booked to stable overnight at Woking.

Diagrams 1&2 (10-Car)

[...]

Diagrams 9&10 (10-Car)

[...]

Are there ten 458/5s actually available for use? 502/20/31-36 were working when I was travelling on Monday evening.
 

hassaanhc

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Are there ten 458/5s actually available for use? 502/20/31-36 were working when I was travelling on Monday evening.

503 and 504 can be used as well now, which makes up the 10 needed. There are no spares however after the fire on 501, and 505 isn't ready for passenger use yet.
 

TEW

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I'm not sure that all 10 diagrams have worked on the same day yet, but in theory all 10 can be covered by the 10 available units.
 

infobleep

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Is it finally curtains for the 450 on the Cobham line? If so that's a shame, from a purely selfish point of view of course.

Sometimes a I'd catch the 8.36 from Guildford to Surbiton. Instead I'll catch the 8.31 once more and change at Woking. Takes slightly longer but they have toilets on board and I generally prefer the 450s to the 455.
 
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