Class 456's on the move?

[JonathanH]

6021 was split awaiting lorries that should have come this evening.

6022 was spare.

6008/6013 in traffic.

That's all that's green. 6021 going up normally means one back on Thursday/Friday. 6009 should be nice and red now.
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It means at Salisbury they have an almost Deltic-esque allocation that includes 9001-9022!

78258 and 64743 of 456009 on separate low loaders in the traffic jam on the M25 this afternoon en route for Wimbledon following their refurbishment.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Well that means that 022 will be stuck in the yard, because you can't couple a green to a red. So I guess the next one will be 022.

 

[Bigfoot]

You can couple. It just might not be the most successful of moments.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You can couple. It just might not be the most successful of moments.

Traction bulletin says you can't except in an emergency, that's what they want, then that's what happens & I go by.

 

[Bigfoot]

Traction bulletin says you can't except in an emergency, that's what they want, then that's what happens & I go by.

So you can couple them... My humour was lost.

 

[EAD]

Unless my eyes deceived me I am sure I saw a sole 456 pass me on the down between WAT and VXH just after we left P7 at VXH. Not sure what had happened there. I was on 2D16, so it was around 08:45 as we were a little late.

 

[glbotu]

Unless my eyes deceived me I am sure I saw a sole 456 pass me on the down between WAT and VXH just after we left P7 at VXH. Not sure what had happened there. I was on 2D16, so it was around 08:45 as we were a little late.

3J95 is ECS from Waterloo to Hampton Court. It seems to then form 3J92 to Raynes Park which then forms 2J92 to Waterloo.

 

[59CosG95]

I wonder when the Colas 47 will make a move out once again. Anyone on here know?

 

[EAD]

3J95 is ECS from Waterloo to Hampton Court. It seems to then form 3J92 to Raynes Park which then forms 2J92 to Waterloo.

Thanks for that - does that mean it is always a solo 456? That was what surprised me (unless I need an eye test) as in it appeared it had been split out for some reason given they are always 455+456+456 on that side of WAT in the morning peaks (except of course the new 455+455+456 10 cars into the longer platforms)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Thanks for that - does that mean it is always a solo 456? That was what surprised me (unless I need an eye test) as in it appeared it had been split out for some reason given they are always 455+456+456 on that side of WAT in the morning peaks (except of course the new 455+455+456 10 cars into the longer platforms)

456s aren't generally allowed to run singly as NWR are paranoid about them getting gapped.

 

[RichardN]

456s aren't generally allowed to run singly as NWR are paranoid about them getting gapped.

Is there any more risk of that than there used to be from a solo 2HAP? The Medway valley line ran for years with that traction and that had level crossings adjacent to platforms at a many stations.

 

[Juniper Driver]

So you can couple them... My humour was lost.

I thought they were wired different to be compatible with SWT's 455's.

Like red 456 will work with red 455.
Green 456 doesn't work with red 456.
Green 456 doesn't work with red 455.

 

[Driver@swt]

There has been a 4 car pair of 456 red running around in service this week. They are not allowed out as two cars.

 

[hassaanhc]

There has been a 4 car pair of 456 red running around in service this week. They are not allowed out as two cars.

Hampton Court Flower Show resulted in additional services. There was a 10 car 455+455+456 set in use on some days (with Class 3 and Class 9 headcodes). Although on Tuesday 30 June I saw a 6 car set out after a failure: 456002+5701 on the 9J46 1539 Hampton Court to London Waterloo.

 

[TEW]

I thought they were wired different to be compatible with SWT's 455's.

Like red 456 will work with red 455.
Green 456 doesn't work with red 456.
Green 456 doesn't work with red 455.

Green 456s have been coupled to 455s, just not in passenger service. There was at least one 10-car test run using green 456s, before the red ones were delivered.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

456s were often used solo when new on the branches that were later closed and absorbed into Tramlink. Was "gapping" a regular occurrence on those routes?

 

[Emblematic]

456s were often used solo when new on the branches that were later closed and absorbed into Tramlink. Was "gapping" a regular occurrence on those routes?

I'm pretty sure Southern had no hesitation sending them out alone right up to the end. As a sporadic user of the pre-LO South London Line, I think that was only ever solo 456 units in it's last years.
SWT are being very nice to their 456s, with shiny new paint, new interiors, not letting them out alone...
Next thing will be SWT asking Vossloh if their AC traction package comes in halves

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I'm pretty sure Southern had no hesitation sending them out alone right up to the end. As a sporadic user of the pre-LO South London Line, I think that was only ever solo 456 units in it's last years.
SWT are being very nice to their 456s, with shiny new paint, new interiors, not letting them out alone...
Next thing will be SWT asking Vossloh if their AC traction package comes in halves

The desperately need re-tractioning. The old chopper control system is awful, causes no end of issues. Remember that BR removed the chopper control system from the 455s in the 90s because of reliability issues. So a good compromise would be to take the camshafts off of the 455s as they get converted and put them on the 456s.

Not ideal I know, but it will get rid of the old chopper control and it should improve the reliability of the 456s.

 

[EAD]

There has been a 4 car pair of 456 red running around in service this week. They are not allowed out as two cars.

Thanks - that may have been it. I only saw it quickly and it came right after a short formed service (single 455). Clearly do need an eye test as I thought they weren't allowed out solo!

 

[hassaanhc]

The desperately need re-tractioning. The old chopper control system is awful, causes no end of issues. Remember that BR removed the chopper control system from the 455s in the 90s because of reliability issues. So a good compromise would be to take the camshafts off of the 455s as they get converted and put them on the 456s.

Not ideal I know, but it will get rid of the old chopper control and it should improve the reliability of the 456s.

Wonder how reliable the Class 319 choppers are in comparison to 456s? The 319s do have different motors though.

 

[Emblematic]

The desperately need re-tractioning. The old chopper control system is awful, causes no end of issues. Remember that BR removed the chopper control system from the 455s in the 90s because of reliability issues. So a good compromise would be to take the camshafts off of the 455s as they get converted and put them on the 456s.

Not ideal I know, but it will get rid of the old chopper control and it should improve the reliability of the 456s.

I'm surprised at that, I didn't think the 456 control system was unreliable. Jerky, inefficient and prone to wheel slip, but not unreliable per se (as in downtime on-depot.) As the main driver for the 455 AC retractioning is reduced maintenance time, to free depot space for additional trains, there's no way the camshafts will get refitted to anything. Fitting a variant of the AC package is an elegant solution, but I'm not sure it's justified - unless of course the chopper control really is causing issues.

 

[WarrenTManager]

I'm surprised at that, I didn't think the 456 control system was unreliable. Jerky, inefficient and prone to wheel slip, but not unreliable per se (as in downtime on-depot.) As the main driver for the 455 AC retractioning is reduced maintenance time, to free depot space for additional trains, there's no way the camshafts will get refitted to anything. Fitting a variant of the AC package is an elegant solution, but I'm not sure it's justified - unless of course the chopper control really is causing issues.

Standard 455 exam cycle 10,000 miles
AC motor 455 exam cycle 15,000 miles
456 exam cycle 7,500 miles

You might be onto something, Mr Davidson ??????

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What control system do Southern's 455s use?

 

[Emblematic]

What control system do Southern's 455s use?

Camshaft, same as SWT.

 

[Goldfish62]

456s were often used solo when new on the branches that were later closed and absorbed into Tramlink. Was "gapping" a regular occurrence on those routes?

Southern used them singly on a daily basis right up to withdrawing them.

 

[infobleep]

Hampton Court Flower Show resulted in additional services. There was a 10 car 455+455+456 set in use on some days (with Class 3 and Class 9 headcodes). Although on Tuesday 30 June I saw a 6 car set out after a failure: 456002+5701 on the 9J46 1539 Hampton Court to London Waterloo.

How have South West Trains been able to supply coaches for the additional Hampton Court services? Is it just an extension of trains that otherwise only run during the peak hours?

 

[Bigfoot]

6022 and 6013 still in traffic today.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Anyone know how long these units are going to be on SWT till withdrawal? Will the 707's create a cascade effect?

 

[infobleep]

Anyone know how long these units are going to be on SWT till withdrawal? Will the 707's create a cascade effect?

I thought the additional rolling stock wasn't going to be cascaded so that more trains could be lengthened on South West Trains. Was that only for the 456s that Southern provided?

There are still services which if I infer from previous press releases correctly, still haven't been lengthened. These are on the South West Trains mainline. As I say I'm inferring so I may be inferring incorrectly.

 

[Domh245]

Anyone know how long these units are going to be on SWT till withdrawal? Will the 707's create a cascade effect?

I imagine that they'll be sticking around until the SWT 455s shuffle off to the scrapyard in the sky (or rotherham/eastleigh!) at which point they become rather useless!