Class 387

[petersi]

We can argue until the cows come home but I'm sorry, I simply don't accept your argument about testing, I'm pretty sure I remember a 378 conking out at city. Again if I'm wrong I apologise, but conked out they have at various places. A 20 mile test track can be made to replicate any operating condition that you want it to (even trains wedged with pax if you pay people to get on it) and I think that, especially now that new trains are infested with all sorts of software, this should be done before any new type of train is let loose on any significant route. I'm sorry but I think we will simply have to agree to disagree on this.



Merry Christmas

If you have ever done any testing and implementation you would now it very difficult to get tests to reflect all conditions in real life.

I do not work in rail but have implemented new products in other areas and there always seams to be something in real life that effects you which is not on the test schedule.

 

[Bald Rick]

We can argue until the cows come home but I'm sorry, I simply don't accept your argument about testing, I'm pretty sure I remember a 378 conking out at city. Again if I'm wrong I apologise, but conked out they have at various places.

Not at City. Hendon (for 25 mins), Gatwick, Haywards Heath, and one other. But not anywhere in the core.

They have all been tested - up and down the WCML to Crewe several times.

There is no doubt that a longer testing programme can help reduce in service faults. However these trains were needed in service now to release stock for NW electrification. They were ordered less than 2 years ago as a distress purchase, by decree of the DfT. There was never time for a longer testing programme. And to be fair, given that this is a tried and tested design, there was no need to. As has been said repeatedly, their failure rate on introduction is comparable to many other new types of rolling stock. I can personally testify to new 379s sitting down for an hour or more blocking the only route to Stansted...

 

[MK Tom]

Sorry to interrupt everyone, but does anyone know if the 387s will be out at all tomorrow? I'm thinking of popping down to Luton and maybe trying to ride one.

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry to interrupt everyone, but does anyone know if the 387s will be out at all tomorrow? I'm thinking of popping down to Luton and maybe trying to ride one.

The diagrams for tomorrow are as

301
2W02 0525 Brighton to Bedford

302
1W06 0602 Brighton to Bedford

301/302 attach at Bedford then run
1W17 0854 Bedford to Brighton
2W34 1137 Brighton to Bedford
2W47 1440 Bedford to Brighton
1W52 1734 Brighton to Bedford
1W65 2022 Bedford to Brighton
2W82 0010 Brighton to Bedford

303/304
1W15 0824 Bedford to Brighton
2W32 1107 Brighton to Bedford
2W45 1410 Bedford to Brighton
1W50 1704 Brighton to Bedford
1W63 1954 Bedford to Brighton
1W74 2311 Brighton to Bedford

305/306
1W09 0654 Bedford to Brighton
2W26 0937 Brighton to Bedford
2W39 1240 Bedford to Brighton
1W44 1534 Brighton to Bedford
1W57 1824 Bedford to Brighton

 

[MK Tom]

Thanks, you're a star!

 

[Class377/5]

And Sunday's

301/302
2W14 0736 Brighton to Bedford
1W25 1036 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 1344 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 1638 Bedford to Brighton
1W52 1944 Brighton to Bedford

305/306
1W21 0936 Bedford to Brighton
1W24 1244 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 1538 Bedford to Brighton
1W48 1844 Brighton to Bedford
2W77 2158 Bedford to Brighton

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Gosh, 3 pairs out on Saturday !

I might just have to try one out to see what all the fuss is about....

 

[MK Tom]

I'm going to aim for the 13:13 from St. Albans towards Bedford, please let me know if I've misinterpreted those diagrams at all!

 

[samuelmorris]

Would like to try and score a ride on one of these on Tuesday if at all possible - when would I need to check in for the diagrams?

Cheers

Sam

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm going to aim for the 13:13 from St. Albans towards Bedford, please let me know if I've misinterpreted those diagrams at all!

That's the 11.37 from Brighton then. Tomorrow's gonna be very cold so this would be a good test for them

 

[westcoaster]

That's the 11.37 from Brighton then. Tomorrow's gonna be very cold so this would be a good test for them

Ice mode will be activated:roll:

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Ice mode will be activated:roll:

Do they have sanding gear? What exactly is ice mode?

 

[westcoaster]

Do they have sanding gear? What exactly is ice mode?

Yes fully fitted, ice mode protects the unit from voltage spikes, basically it turns down the tap on everything onboard, so it draws less power.

 

[SPADTrap]

Ice mode will be activated:roll:

379s all day tomorrow too! :cry:

 

[Class377/5]

Would like to try and score a ride on one of these on Tuesday if at all possible - when would I need to check in for the diagrams?

Cheers

Sam

Will try and share them over the weekend.

 

[Bald Rick]

That's the 11.37 from Brighton then. Tomorrow's gonna be very cold so this would be a good test for them

+2C isn't very cold.

Ice mode is a setting on the traction system that temporarily allows it to draw more current through the (iced) con rail or OLE than normally allowed before tripping out.

In the good ol' days with slam door stock, the traction circuit breakers / fuses would repeatedly blow as the unit tried to draw too much current through the resistance of the ice. There are countless stories of guards physically holding in the breakers, or using metal bars across the fuses. (Along with lots of burnt out motors as a result). Ice mode is a somewhat safer version.

Ice mode does a few other things too, like alter interference settings, and turn on the cab air con

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes fully fitted, ice mode protects the unit from voltage spikes, basically it turns down the tap on everything onboard, so it draws less power.

Sounds analogous to a power surge protector....thanks for the explanation
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

+2C isn't very cold.

Ice mode is a setting on the traction system that temporarily allows it to draw more current through the (iced) con rail or OLE than normally allowed before tripping out.

In the good ol' days with slam door stock, the traction circuit breakers / fuses would repeatedly blow as the unit tried to draw too much current through the resistance of the ice. There are countless stories of guards physically holding in the breakers, or using metal bars across the fuses. (Along with lots of burnt out motors as a result). Ice mode is a somewhat safer version.

Ice mode does a few other things too, like alter interference settings, and turn on the cab air con

+2c is cold when we've been used to unseasonable temperatures

Now would be interesting to hear some of the comments from drivers when ice mode turns on the aircon

 

[westcoaster]

Sounds analogous to a power surge protector....thanks for the explanation
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


+2c is cold when we've been used to unseasonable temperatures

Now would be interesting to hear some of the comments from drivers when ice mode turns on the aircon

In all the time ive been driving 377/5's and 387 ive never know it to do this, but what it does do is as soon as you activate it you hear the air con slow down\ draw less power. which is what ice mode does.

 

[samuelmorris]

Will try and share them over the weekend.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out. I realise they're not going away too quickly, but I want to try and get as many as I can while they're still on services I have a legitimate reason to use (e.g. Thameslink at present) - may as well start early! Pure coincidence has seen me use a 377/6 and 377/7 not long after their introduction, though 458/5s have escaped me so far...

 

[MK Tom]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out. I realise they're not going away too quickly, but I want to try and get as many as I can while they're still on services I have a legitimate reason to use (e.g. Thameslink at present) - may as well start early! Pure coincidence has seen me use a 377/6 and 377/7 not long after their introduction, though 458/5s have escaped me so far...

"legitimate reason to use"? "I want to ride one" IS a legitimate reason!

 

[samuelmorris]

Aha well :P

99% of my trips are either for work (to the office, or to customer sites - all usually London-based) or personal trips (usually up to York as it's where I used to study and I have friends up there) - I don't tend to go on 'bashes' to pad out my rolling stock usage as while the idea itself is quite appealing, not by myself it's not!
To that end I consider myself quite fortunate - in the past 12 months work or personal trips have legitimately necessitated using every underground line, the Overground and DLR, and almost every TOC serving London, excluding Great Northern, London Midland, Hull Trains and Chiltern. Heathrow Connect hasn't been necessary recently but I have used the service in the past. Having been on 377/6s a few times and a 377/7 once, I'm not exactly expecting anything out of the ordinary on a 387 but it'll still be a novelty to ride one of the new units through the Thameslink tunnels rather than my usual trip down to Wandsworth Common

 

[The Box Photter]

Not at City. Hendon (for 25 mins), Gatwick, Haywards Heath, and one other. But not anywhere in the core.

They have all been tested - up and down the WCML to Crewe several times.

There is no doubt that a longer testing programme can help reduce in service faults. However these trains were needed in service now to release stock for NW electrification. They were ordered less than 2 years ago as a distress purchase, by decree of the DfT. There was never time for a longer testing programme. And to be fair, given that this is a tried and tested design, there was no need to. As has been said repeatedly, their failure rate on introduction is comparable to many other new types of rolling stock. I can personally testify to new 379s sitting down for an hour or more blocking the only route to Stansted...

Zipping up and down the WCML without stopping every 10 mins or so opening and closing the doors each time isn't exactly representative of how they have to operate on Thameslink.

 

[MK Tom]

Here's a quick photo of the 11.37 Brighton-Bedford today at St. Albans. The 11.07 was two 377/5s. I got better photos which will go on my Flickr over the coming days.

 

[Bald Rick]

Zipping up and down the WCML without stopping every 10 mins or so opening and closing the doors each time isn't exactly representative of how they have to operate on Thameslink.

Quite. Although door failures on the 387s currently=0

 

[The Box Photter]

Quite. Although door failures on the 387s currently=0

No, but surely acceleration - deceleration - acceleration etc puts more stress on braking and traction systems than a fast blast up the WCML. Add to that unfamiliarity in the hands of regular drivers rather than the test drivers must add to the risk of failure.

 

[Domh245]

I'd imagine that the test runs on the wcml are mainly to ensure that everything is working together, and that the train isn't going to fall apart. Testing things such as doors, deadmans switches, motors, lights etc, will be done by the manufacturer with a couple of items to destruction to ensure the design works, and then after that, they only need to have limited testing to ensure they are behaving how they should. Also, I'm not sure how driver unfamiliarity would contribute to risk of failure, surely it would only make it more likely that when it goes wrong, it goes wrong for a long time.

 

[Class377/5]

No, but surely acceleration - deceleration - acceleration etc puts more stress on braking and traction systems than a fast blast up the WCML. Add to that unfamiliarity in the hands of regular drivers rather than the test drivers must add to the risk of failure.

They spent half the time on WCML behind stoppers meaning they get best of both worlds for testing.

 

[swt_passenger]

Regarding testing on the WCML, presumably the bottom line is that if you were to list all the locations on the network where 110 mph running with multiple pans up is allowed you'd end up with:

1. WCML
2. er, that's it...

 

[Islineclear3_1]

And Sunday's

301/302
2W14 0736 Brighton to Bedford
1W25 1036 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 1344 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 1638 Bedford to Brighton
1W52 1944 Brighton to Bedford

305/306
1W21 0936 Bedford to Brighton
1W24 1244 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 1538 Bedford to Brighton
1W48 1844 Brighton to Bedford
2W77 2158 Bedford to Brighton

Both the 09.36 and the 10.36 Bedford - Brighton were no shows today despite the 07.36 earlier running

 

[Aictos]

Might have a trip on them tomorrow, funny how I've spend more time south of Blackfriars in the last year then north of it

Anyway, hopefully they be out so I can get some photos