southern442
Established Member
An article in Today's Railways stated that the 387/2 interior will be 'very similar inside' to the 387/1's.
Designed for Gatwick Express my foot.
Designed for Gatwick Express my foot.
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Class 387
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I'll take one of them on the doors tomorrow.
Thameslink will be run with a fast train fleet comprising 377/2, 377/5 & 387 from May 2015 and a Luton and the Sutton loop fleet using 319s. When the 700s start arriving in 2016/7, all of these classes will be replaced.
chickenwings12
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Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Travelled on 387.111 from Harpenden today. Announcements were fine on this unit and correct, although we didn't stop at West Hampstead
Well, I thought the 3x2 377s were uncomfortable enough only for the 387s to take a further step towards steerage class with their cheek numbingly uncomfortable seats - and rumours already abound that the 700s will be little, if any, better.
It is ludicrous that we have to back 30 years and more to recall comfortable seats on trains as a given - with something else that becomes rarer by the design - a view through a window.
The 387 seating appears no different to (sub) standard size other than an anti-mocassar - but you can be sure there's a bigger difference in the fares.
I wonder if the person who designed the 387 seating has ever had to sit on it and sample his/her appalling handiwork?
It is ludicrous that we have to back 30 years and more to recall comfortable seats on trains as a given - with something else that becomes rarer by the design - a view through a window.
The 387 seating appears no different to (sub) standard size other than an anti-mocassar - but you can be sure there's a bigger difference in the fares.
I wonder if the person who designed the 387 seating has ever had to sit on it and sample his/her appalling handiwork?
Yawn!
Perhaps we should have a separate thread for those that want to moan about seating?
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ModernRailways
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I suppose you want commuters to have MK2s hauled by Steam through the Thameslink tunnels? Or maybe a slam door unit?
The trains aren't built to be luxurious, they are made to get people from A to B, in the fastest, most efficient time. And the seats aren't exactly bad, sitting on one from Brighton to Bedford they may be, but for a journey of East Croydon to St Pancake (or even Gatwick to Pancake) they are suitably comfy and are good enough for most users of Thameslink services.
I think there are real problems. The firmness of the base isn't great (compared to the longer-distance seats in Siemens trains, see 444 and 185) but it will do. The problem is the back not really being designed for leaning on. You sit down, you bang your head. If there were a tad more pitch and a headrest shape we'd be getting somewhere. I think nomis1066's point is about the FIRST CLASS seats. You'd have to be loopy to pay for that First Class :P
So as you are saying that the firmness isn't great, you must want it firmer, correct?
4-COR 3142
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Ignoring the great seat debate for a minute......are there any 387 diagrams over the weekend? and also are some units likely to stable at Brighton over the weekends?
If so are these likely to be in Lover's Walk itself, Montpelier Sidings, Preston Park or the new sidings east of the old Pullman Shed?
If so are these likely to be in Lover's Walk itself, Montpelier Sidings, Preston Park or the new sidings east of the old Pullman Shed?
Class377/5
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There is 6 diagrams for today and Sunday.
Currently there are 10 387s ready for service, meaning 4 are stabled at Brighton. Generally they are inside Lovers Walk depot at present, however 387108 was near the old Pullman sheds this morning. Over the next few months its likely you'll see some units outside but never expected to be too many.
I swear my ironing board has better padding!
Ha ha.... ive got several friends and family that travel by train often and theyve all said about the 377/6s... "they are nice and new but aren't the seats hard"!
southern442
Established Member
Search up the class 700 interior and Google images will delightfully tell you the 700's will be worse. There will be no armrests or tables, but at least the seats have a bit more padding.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Just before Christmas I travelled in my first 387 from St Pancras to East Croydon.
I must be getting used to the firm seats now as I did not really notice it. They were a real shock every time I sat down on a (in !) a 377/6 earlier in the year. It seems to me that they might be a bit lower which makes me jarr my back when I finally land on the lower and firmer seat.
The hand rails around the headrest area are a real improvement - so convenient. Far easier to hold onto than the little plastic ears that the earlier 377s have. The headrest seems to be no higher than in earlier 377s but smaller to allow for the handrail. That makes for a slightly better/brighter view along the carriage in my opinion.
The coaches were brighter inside which I guess is due to being newer so cleaner but perhaps also LED lighting ?. I have noticed LED lighting seems to be so much better than CFL (Compact Flourescent Lights) in my own home - just hope they last longer than CFLs. Sorry if there is no comparison between domestic lighting and trains but that my theory.
Before Christmas I seemed to keep seeing the new 387s whenever I was travelling from East Croydon so there must be quite a few out and about. Or am I just travelling at a more consistent time than i realise.
I must be getting used to the firm seats now as I did not really notice it. They were a real shock every time I sat down on a (in !) a 377/6 earlier in the year. It seems to me that they might be a bit lower which makes me jarr my back when I finally land on the lower and firmer seat.
The hand rails around the headrest area are a real improvement - so convenient. Far easier to hold onto than the little plastic ears that the earlier 377s have. The headrest seems to be no higher than in earlier 377s but smaller to allow for the handrail. That makes for a slightly better/brighter view along the carriage in my opinion.
The coaches were brighter inside which I guess is due to being newer so cleaner but perhaps also LED lighting ?. I have noticed LED lighting seems to be so much better than CFL (Compact Flourescent Lights) in my own home - just hope they last longer than CFLs. Sorry if there is no comparison between domestic lighting and trains but that my theory.
Before Christmas I seemed to keep seeing the new 387s whenever I was travelling from East Croydon so there must be quite a few out and about. Or am I just travelling at a more consistent time than i realise.
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Deepgreen
Established Member
Luxury isn't what is being discussed here, and efficiency or speed of transport doesn't have to sacrifice basic comfort - a better designed/padded seat doesn't have to take up any more space than a poorly-padded one. It is an intrinsic part of rail travel to have seating, so why must each generation of design be worse than the previous one? Thameslink must cater for its long-distance passengers as much as for its shorter distance ones. I imagine that a significant proportion of journeys will be around an hour, for which I think the present seats are wholly unsuitable.
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Kite159
Veteran Member
The seats could be worst, you could have 142 style benches.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Got an 8 car back on the 1708 off Blackfriars tonight - still impressed - seats firm - but better than on a Jubilee line car !
southern442
Established Member
But 142's are designed ( I'm looking at you Northern Rail :roll: ) for short distance work, and 387's aren't, which is what I'm getting at. I'm not going to bother anymore with the 387's, as you are right, the seats could be worse.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
You're correct, it could be worse. You could have an ex-Merseyrail Pacer load of seats! Anyone who's suffered those will know exactly what I mean. I'd rather the seats in the 377/6s, 377/7s and without a doubt those in the 387s to an ex-Merseyrail 142 seat! Horrid memories of bashing some of them in early 2005 after an all-nighter bash the previous night, and let's not mention THOSE seats in a 158 for long journeys either! How anyone was supposed to have a comfortable journey on seats that were like ironing boards after about an hour, and this is on an inter-city journey of 2.5 hours or more I should add, I have no idea!
*Tries to erase certain memories*
*Tries to erase certain memories*
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
I had my first taste of a 387 from Harpenden to Blackfriars a few days ago and had a table seat. To be fair, for a quick journey, I found my seat to be quite comfortable.
Now would you believe it but at the risk of going OT, I had the "fortune" of travelling on a 321 to Clacton over the weekend and the "misfortune" of a 360 on the return journey. Both the 321s and 360's have more padding than the 387's; the 321 seats were ok, but the seats (especially the pitch of the seat backs) on the 360 was awful and I had backache for the rest of the weekend.
I could not find fault with the 387 seats.
Each to their own I suppose....
Now would you believe it but at the risk of going OT, I had the "fortune" of travelling on a 321 to Clacton over the weekend and the "misfortune" of a 360 on the return journey. Both the 321s and 360's have more padding than the 387's; the 321 seats were ok, but the seats (especially the pitch of the seat backs) on the 360 was awful and I had backache for the rest of the weekend.
I could not find fault with the 387 seats.
Each to their own I suppose....
the posture of them is good, its just the lack of cushioning.
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