Class 319 future

[MrB]

I was informed by one of my sources that Southeastern are still hoping to get a handful of 319s (their drivers are already trained for them) for them to use on the Orpington and Sevenoaks Metro routes, so that more of the 465s can be freed-up to to work the Dartford and Hayes services. That also frees-up more of the 376s for other services, and SE then probably won't inherit any 377s from TL or Southern.

This would essentially have had the same result as the 377s they were originally planning to get, so 465s that currently work the outer-suburbans would have been freed to do those all-important Dartford services.

One way or another, they get what they want.

Presumably, 465s would still work to Ashford & Tunbridge Wells under these proposals, I believed that this would not be the case if 377s were transferred over from Southern.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Presumably, 465s would still work to Ashford & Tunbridge Wells under these proposals, I believed that this would not be the case if 377s were transferred over from Southern.

With this "new" plan (although, there were rumours about them eyeing the 319s quite some time ago), they'd have about 15-20 or so spare 465s that would be going to Dartford and other SEML Metros they want to bolster, and the 465/9s would remain to continue doing the outer-suburbans as they were destined to do.

I would prefer additional 377s, personally, but then they'd be using the 465/9s that are configured for outer-suburban workings (First Class) on Metro services that don't require it. Occasionally they do this anyway to make up the 8-coachers for peak Orpington services, but if that was the change, it would become the norm.

By that logic, it would make more sense for them to take the 319s and leave the 377s for somewhere else.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If it could be confirmed that 365s in DC mode would work with all subclasses of classes 455 and 456 then depending on how the 365 situation plays out, they could perhaps go for 365s instead of 319s.

From a driver's point of view if the stuff for dual voltage in the cab was removed or blanked off, would there be much difference between a 365 and a 465?

 

[SF-02]

None of those ideas help with the lack of SDO on net workers affecting 12 car running, and constant changes in plans which never seem to be finalised aren't much good with yet more service cuts coming soon on metro lines.

 

[D365]

If it could be confirmed that 365s in DC mode would work with all subclasses of classes 455 and 456 then depending on how the 365 situation plays out, they could perhaps go for 365s instead of 319s.

From a driver's point of view if the stuff for dual voltage in the cab was removed or blanked off, would there be much difference between a 365 and a 465?

Once again, why does it matter? Southeastern have had 365s before.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How much work would be involved in installing and enabling SDO for Networkers?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Once again, why does it matter? Southeastern have had 365s before.

Don't forget that some 465s have had their traction package replaced with one supplied by Hiatchi, until a 365 is tested with one of them, no one can say with certainty that they'd work together without modifications being made to the 365s

 

[D365]

How much work would be involved in installing and enabling SDO for Networkers?

More work than is deemed economical for a 25 year old fleet. Hence the never-ending Woolwich Dockyards debacle.

Don't forget that some 465s have had their traction package replaced with one supplied by Hiatchi, until a 365 is tested with one of them, no one can say with certainty that they'd work together without modifications being made to the 365s

That's not what I'm getting at. Just because the 365s are 'Networkers' doesn't mean that they are strictly compatible with the 465s. In any case the former works mainline services more suited to a 375/377, as opposed to the 'metro' specialisation of the latter fleet.

 

[childwallblues]

I think the thing with the 350's is that the noise is constant. You only notice it when you go through a neutral section and the noise stops and you realise that it is really effing loud. Ha ha. I love the 319's. Especially the ones from Parkway in to town. I go from West Allerton to Lime Street every time I am able. They are quiet, comfortable, and I am normally the only person on it. Ha ha.

They don't stop at West Allerton.

 

[fowler9]

They don't stop at West Allerton.

I meant to say via South Parkway. My bad.

 

[387star]

Merseyrail bound I heard ?

 

[43074]

Merseyrail bound I heard ?

A few of them (7 or 12, depending on who you believe) may be bound for Merseyside (i.e. operating Northern services in the area), but Merseyrail have started a procurement for a fleet of new trains to replace the 507s/508s, so it isn't a possibility that 319s will be used on Merseyrail.

 

[physics34]

A few of them (7 or 12, depending on who you believe) may be bound for Merseyside (i.e. operating Northern services in the area), but Merseyrail have started a procurement for a fleet of new trains to replace the 507s/508s, so it isn't a possibility that 319s will be used on Merseyrail.

do they fit down the tunnels?

 

[Mordac]

All the Merseyrail infrastructure is set for multiples of 3 coaches anyway, much like the Strathclyde, so 4 car EMUs would be a poor fit.

 

[Class 466]

With this "new" plan (although, there were rumours about them eyeing the 319s quite some time ago), they'd have about 15-20 or so spare 465s that would be going to Dartford and other SEML Metros they want to bolster, and the 465/9s would remain to continue doing the outer-suburbans as they were destined to do.

I would prefer additional 377s, personally, but then they'd be using the 465/9s that are configured for outer-suburban workings (First Class) on Metro services that don't require it. Occasionally they do this anyway to make up the 8-coachers for peak Orpington services, but if that was the change, it would become the norm.

By that logic, it would make more sense for them to take the 319s and leave the 377s for somewhere else.

I have just been informed that SE won't be getting any 319s but will be getting more than 25 377s in the latter part of this year/early next year.

 

[MrB]

I have just been informed that SE won't be getting any 319s but will be getting more than 25 377s in the latter part of this year/early next year.

Presumably 377/1s or is the subclass unconfirmed?

 

[Class 466]

Presumably 377/1s or is the subclass unconfirmed?

I would assume so given they are most like 375s. Personally I'd prefer 377/4s with seperated first class and plug sockets, but that's never gonna happen!

 

[physics34]

I would assume so given they are most like 375s. Personally I'd prefer 377/4s with seperated first class and plug sockets, but that's never gonna happen!

I don't want the more comfortable 1s to go

 

[Class377/5]

I have just been informed that SE won't be getting any 319s but will be getting more than 25 377s in the latter part of this year/early next year.

That's not quite true. Number is bigger. 25 is from the GTR ITT. But your getting 377/1s for sure.

 

[MatthewRead]

I have just been informed that SE won't be getting any 319s but will be getting more than 25 377s in the latter part of this year/early next year.

Then send them to GWR like it was originally promised instead of entirely getting 387s

 

[ScotGG]

That's not quite true. Number is bigger. 25 is from the GTR ITT. But your getting 377/1s for sure.

How many 377s will it take to remove all 465/9s from mid and long distance routes?

Assuming that's what the 377s will do. Maybe some could have internal work carried out and go to Metro routes to allow more 12-car running.

 

[Class377/5]

How many 377s will it take to remove all 465/9s from mid and long distance routes?

Assuming that's what the 377s will do. Maybe some could have internal work carried out and go to Metro routes to allow more 12-car running.

I have no info (currently) on what they will work. Just units moving and where they will be based (and no I'm not talking about that just yet).

 

[43074]

do they fit down the tunnels?

Should do, whether or not they've been cleared to do so is another matter as there's never been the need for them to run in the tunnels.

 

[childwallblues]

Should do, whether or not they've been cleared to do so is another matter as there's never been the need for them to run in the tunnels.

319004/219/442/448 are all now off lease from Thameslink and have moved to Wolverton Works. They are transferred to Northern.

 

[Class455]

319004/219/442/448 are all now off lease from Thameslink and have moved to Wolverton Works. They are transferred to Northern.

I saw 319219 a couple weeks ago, shame to see its gone :cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I know this may be unlikely but Southern could take some Class 319's to boost capacity on metro routes and to use on the Horsham/Tonbridge line, and cascade the 377's to increase capacity on BML trains. The 319's could also be modified to work in multiple with the 455's after some work on the couplers is done. This could also allow 455's to be retractioned to improve reliability.

 

[physics34]

I saw 319219 a couple weeks ago, shame to see its gone :cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I know this may be unlikely but Southern could take some Class 319's to boost capacity on metro routes and to use on the Horsham/Tonbridge line, and cascade the 377's to increase capacity on BML trains. The 319's could also be modified to work in multiple with the 455's after some work on the couplers is done. This could also allow 455's to be retractioned to improve reliability.

i still believe the destination of the remaining 319s is either a mystery or a secret but they should really replace 313s on the coast because of their toliet facility for a start (i know they wont) and yes, they could replace the 455s on southern.

Way too much work to make them compatible with 455s.

 

[Class377/5]

I saw 319219 a couple weeks ago, shame to see its gone :cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I know this may be unlikely but Southern could take some Class 319's to boost capacity on metro routes and to use on the Horsham/Tonbridge line, and cascade the 377's to increase capacity on BML trains. The 319's could also be modified to work in multiple with the 455's after some work on the couplers is done. This could also allow 455's to be retractioned to improve reliability.

No 319s are going to Southern/GTR. The next franchise will have to replace the 313s but the 319s are not the unit to do this as the coast way needs 6 car trains so using the 319s would reduce peak capacity not increase it so hardly useful.

The future of the 319s beyond Thameslink is still yet to be decided (for a lot of the fleet) but a go anywhere type dv EMU is possibly going to more useful in some areas than others.

 

[Mordac]

No 319s are going to Southern/GTR. The next franchise will have to replace the 313s but the 319s are not the unit to do this as the coast way needs 6 car trains so using the 319s would reduce peak capacity not increase it so hardly useful.

The future of the 319s beyond Thameslink is still yet to be decided (for a lot of the fleet) but a go anywhere type dv EMU is possibly going to more useful in some areas than others.

Could they be used by LO to cover the period between GOBLIN electrification being finished and the Aventras arriving?

 

[Class377/5]

Could they be used by LO to cover the period between GOBLIN electrification being finished and the Aventras arriving?

For a max of six months when your already paying the current stock would an expensive decision. Bare in mind you'd have to wait to have the wires finished before you can do checks on commissioning and your looking at only four or so months in passenger service while trying to learn the 710s too. Sensible idea would be towards the end of the block teach your GOBLIN drivers on NLL (part of which they sign I believe to get units back to depot) the 710 straight off so they clean be rolled out quicker.

 

[swt_passenger]

Here's the TfL party line on the possibility of temporary EMUs:

Electric Trains for Barking - Gospel Oak Service

John Biggs (20-Jan-2016)
It is likely that Network Rail will complete the electrification of the Barking-Gospel Oak Service in early 2017 and yet TfL will not be able to put new electric trains on this route until at least April 2018. Will you support the wishes of my constituents, who will be passengers on this route, and ensure that TfL make plans to lease some electric trains they can deploy on this route so that passengers can benefit from the electrification without a long delay?

The Mayor (20-Jan-2016)

Network Rail has committed to complete the works in June 2017.

Thanks to further TfL investment on both this route and West Anglia there is now a significant train order for the new Class710 electric trains in place, which was placed as early as possible and before the electrification was authorised. These brand new trains are being delivered as quickly as possible and are due to start appearing on the London Overground from early 2018.

It is not financially viable for TfL to lease other electric trains to cover any gap from the completion of electrification and delivery of the new trains.

http://questions.london.gov.uk/QuestionSearch/searchclient/

 

[MatthewRead]

Here's the TfL party line on the possibility of temporary EMUs:

They will most likely be LO's own fleet of 315 and 317 units.