Class 172 Production Progress

[Techniquest]

I see there's at least 3 172s outside the factory in Derby this morning, viewed via BBC News 24

And no, before anyone asks, I don't have the numbers or counting them for sight!

 

[newtownmgr]

Seen 338 sitting between 331 and 332 (ones with no seats??) at a rather empty Tyseley today.

I think 338 is still at Derby, could possibly have been 333

 

[trains2064]

I think 338 is still at Derby, could possibly have been 333

338 was the next one due.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Do recent events mean the last LM 172 to be built at litchurch lane could be the last mainline train built in britain (IEP doesnt count its an airfix kit)

Not really on topic, but an order for Voyager and Meridian pantograph cars or an order of new loco-hauled coaches to be delivered slowly between now and 2050 to replace first the coaches behind the 90s in East Anglia (by the 2020 deadline for power-doors), followed by the IC125s on EMT and on the route to Taunton, Devon and Cornwall and then finally the IC225s along with an order for 180 Electrostar carriges for the ValleyLines (also to be in service by 2020) could save the factory couldn't it? All that rolling stock is needed, so why not order it from the British factory?

172s are airfix kits? Maybe, but I'd be interested to know how many of the components are made in Britain. The 1 o'clock news said somthing about jobs in the supply chain going, so maybe 172s are a bit more British than some seem to be suggesting. Then again, maybe they're not British at all.

 

[ainsworth74]

All that rolling stock is needed, so why not order it from the British factory?

Well apart from the fact that we're unlikely to see another large order for LHCS the main issue there is that you have to put it out to competitive tender. You're not allowed to just ring up Bombardier and say "Hey you know that Derby plant? We want you to start building some LHCS and a few other bits a bobs over the next 50 years!". That just isn't how it's done anymore, other companies have to be allowed to bid on a tender be they Siemens, Alstom, Bombardier, CAF or CSRE any and all have to be able to bid should they wish to.

 

[Pumbaa]

Not really on topic, but an order for Voyager and Meridian pantograph cars

They were manufactured in Bruges, Belgium anyway. A very British company indeed :roll:

 

[cj_1985]

iirc from the news report today...
the UK operation was branded as Bombardier UK... not Bombardier Europe/Canada/Worldwide etc

while they have building facilities and other regional operations in france, germany, italy etc

 

[Rhydgaled]

Well apart from the fact that we're unlikely to see another large order for LHCS the main issue there is that you have to put it out to competitive tender. You're not allowed to just ring up Bombardier and say "Hey you know that Derby plant? We want you to start building some LHCS and a few other bits a bobs over the next 50 years!". That just isn't how it's done anymore, other companies have to be allowed to bid on a tender be they Siemens, Alstom, Bombardier, CAF or CSRE any and all have to be able to bid should they wish to.

They can tender all they like. If the DfT put out for tender on said stuff, they can look at the bid and decide that company X will be providing jobs in the UK, which will help cut down on the benifits bill, and say "we choose that company". Of course if the Derby bid is much more expensive, or a competing bid much better in some respect, then the DfT will sensibly have to pick the better bid. I can't see why they can't make safeguarding UK jobs an important consideration when deciding who wins the bid for said stock.

As for LHCS, I see two reasons why we will need a new build.

1. Sleeper services. If they are to continue after life-expiry of the current stock we'll need some more LHCS, and you might as well deploy the same day coaches elsewhere for economy of scale
2. South of Bristol, West of Newbury. This is just too far out of Paddington to go on a DMU, even a bi-mode one, and wires might not come fast enough. Once the IC125s are gone, we'll need new LHCS on the route.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Picture of the day on The Railway Centre shows 172 333 at Hagley yesterday, first time one of the LM units has ventured west of Birmingham.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Anyone see ONE Show last night when he tapped the 172 and said derby is still building world class trains....
I was like wow .... well thats not how they seem

Joke obviously just reffering to delays and exhaust fiasco etc

 

[northwichcat]

172s are now in service with Chiltern: http://www.rail.co/2011/07/07/bombardiers-newest-train-enters-service-with-chiltern-railways/

 

[asylumxl]

Seems like they're a bit behind, seeing as I took this...

On June 29th

 

[hougtimo]

is it just me, or does the 172 look a really funny shape? Thin and tall? The bottoms of the doors seem to stand higher than the platform too?

Or are they the same shape as 170s?

 

[Techniquest]

Didn't know Chiltern had got their 172s in service now, I had to look a couple of times to check that wasn't a 168!

 

[fgwrich]

is it just me, or does the 172 look a really funny shape? Thin and tall? The bottoms of the doors seem to stand higher than the platform too?

Or are they the same shape as 170s?

I think its down to the use of normal gasket type windows, as opposed to the more expensive ribbon glazing Bombardier have been using for years...

As far as im aware, the body shouldnt be any different to a 170, Bombardier does seem to suffer a lack of imagination to produce a new design of unit - More recyling of the Adtranz design...

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I think its down to the use of normal gasket type windows, as opposed to the more expensive ribbon glazing Bombardier have been using for years...

As far as im aware, the body shouldnt be any different to a 170, Bombardier does seem to suffer a lack of imagination to produce a new design of unit - More recyling of the Adtranz design...

If it works dont fix it I say

 

[NIMBUS]

Didn't know Chiltern had got their 172s in service now, I had to look a couple of times to check that wasn't a 168!

They've been in traffic since 8th June.

 

[fgwrich]

If it works dont fix it I say

True i suppose!

 

[Techniquest]

They've been in traffic since 8th June.

Shows what I know then doesn't it! Cheers for the update

 

[IanPooleTrains]

I was at Tyseley yesterday with one of me brothers, getting Kinlet Hall when we spoke with a London Midland worker.

He was taking an interest in what we were doing and we had some friendly banter and told him I was hoping for one of the 172s to come into the yard.

He said that one was out and the other three were in the yard and he then said, and these are his words; 'the 172s are worst than the 170s'. he then went on to say that while the 170s were okay, they were plagued with problems with with them, even though the 170s and 172s are almost the same, you know what the problems are with the 170s but with the 172s, they are at least ten times worse.

I get the feeling that some of the people there at LM don't like them!

Also, the date has been pushed back as well for their debut runs, it will now be October. I said that we thought it was August and he said it was but Bombadier were behind on the order but, given current circumstances, understandable.

 

[MCR247]

What current circumstances could cause 172s to be late?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

What current circumstances could cause 172s to be late?

Do I need to say the B word?

 

[MCR247]

What B word...?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Bombardier?

 

[MCR247]

Don't see why 'current' circumstances would make them delayed though anyway.

That would be true if they were on time up until this point which they certainly were not.

I'd blame it on 'continuing circumstances'.


The circumstances being the fact the Bombardier are crap, and therefore continue to be.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

The circumstances being the fact the Bombardier are crap, and therefore continue to be.

Well, steady on, Bombadier have done some good stuff

 

[MCR247]

From Derby? On-time? Recently?

 

[asylumxl]

I'd blame it on 'continuing circumstances'.


The circumstances being the fact the Bombardier are crap, and therefore continue to be.

Best comment I've seen on here in a long time.

 

[tnxrail]

172338 was out yesterday at same time as the hall video up on YouTube I did over here two drivers talking about the brakes take time to get used as of the power leavels may be one issue.

 

[fgwrich]

Best comment I've seen on here in a long time.

Seconded!